PT Padmé Amidala MEGAthread - Don't look at her that way. It makes her uncomfortable

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It's definitely conveyed in the first two films though.

Padme's mood in TPM is heavily tied to her people's plight. Such as her sorrowful looks during Theed's invasion, and her expressions during her Senate plight when Palpatine's prediction that the Senate will not help comes true.
Her line "My fate will be no different than that of my people." works both to reinforce this and perhaps even references that she will pass away when the Republic dies.

In AOTC while the dialogue may be a little clunky several scenes seem to imply she has been putting her duty before herself her whole life. From a deleted scene; "Do you know you are the first boyfriend Padme has brought home?" "He's not my boyfriend. Anakin is a Jedi assigned to me for protection."
Padme references a Senator and a Jedi cannot start a relationship in the fireplace scene. And only reveals her feelings when it looks like they have nothing left to live for.
Notice what happens when Padme falls out of the Republic gunship later in the film. Anakin panics and wants to go back for her, but after arguing with Obi-Wan we get this moment - "What do you think Padme would do if she were in your position?" "...She would do her duty." Only what does Padme actually do when she recovers - instantly wants to go to Anakin; "We've got to get to that hangar!"
It shows she is starting to put her personal life above duty. Plus there is a fan theory that Padme and Anakin both being incapacitated at the same time here (Anakin by Dooku's lightning), indicates they are starting to be symbiotically connected.

In ROTS Padme's character, take it or leave it, is quite heavily an extension of Anakin's story. Her first scene in the film their emotional reuniting, and Padme's nervousness in revealing to Anakin she is pregnant, obviously crucial to the film and Padme's arc.

I tend to agree with those that say her Senate scenes were sorely missed yet there would have to be more to them to warrant inclusion in the film. Calk me cynical but I thought the first two scenes kind of stated the obvious a little. The "delegation of 2000 confronts Palpatine" scene was great though. Padme truly looks helplessly unable to reach Anakin, who is sliding closer to Palpatine's philosophy.
Palpatine's feigned sympathy to her objections is slimy as always. I wish this was in the film.

The symbiotic link between the two lovers is really important to the progress of this film. As the Republic and the good in Anakin are lost Padme seems to get visibly weaker. The ruminations scene emotionally has Padme and Anakin invisibly sensing each other from afar, and Padme lowering her head at the end implies to me that deep down she knows how far Anakin would go to save her. Notice she is still standing at the window after Anakin's turn and during Order 66. Padme crying there is criticised by some, but I see it as Padme sensing Anakin is sacrifing his own soul and part of Padme's life force.

It seems generally accepted that the imagery during "birth and rebirth" represents Padme fades as Anakin truly becomes Vader. As people have already noted here; Vader, enforcer of the Empire and taker of life, only truly exists when Padme, giver of life, has birthed the "new hope" and passed on.

I think it is quite moving personally.
There are moments in ep2 where the relationship itself is a little poorly set up, but it is still pretty romantic as an overall arc. Leia and Han's happier ending (at least pre-ST) is more pleasant, but much more secondary to the heart of it's respective trilogy.

 

But the duty IS to catch Dooku! In her case, there just isn't any dilemma ;-)

I don't see her "becoming weaker" throughout ROTS, she seems "weak" from the start (though I don't think "weak" is really an apt term to describe the tone/archetype there) - that's just what her character is in this movie, as opposed to the previous 2, she's the "frail vulnerable warrior's wife" who stays at home being really tender and afraid while her husband goes out to do great deeds, gets in danger and then starts doing horrible deeds.
An "extension of Anakin's story" is kind of true, since she doesn't have much of an arc of her own and there's not enough POV - again, that's how that movie is designed, with those deleted scenes out.

I don't see anything along the lines of "it's connected to Anakin" there - at most it's consistent with the pregnancy, but it's basically just a character redesign to fit the new movie.



In EpI she seemed like that but it turned out to be an act, or a ritual aspect of their royal culture or whatever.

But that wasn't some "mystical connection", of course she'd react that way to her people being invaded / having no hope of getting help!

Both times she says "my place is with my people" it seems to be a cover for something more practical though - certainly the second time (already has a plan how to fight back), and the 1st time it's not clear how honest she's being (considering she's the decoy and putting on an act).

It's also the Naboo people and not the Republic's democracy.

 

The droids wouldn't be saying "Medically, she is completely healthy" and "For reasons we are unable to explain, we are losing her" in that case. Unless they were particularly uninformed droids.

 

I don't know if much really shows up if one dies of broken heart syndrome since it isn't caused by blockage. It's just always what I assumed she died of.

 

Appreciate your response, even if we disagree

Maybe. I see your point but I maintain I think she is mainly motivated by her feelings for Anakin.

Good call with my word choice, Im not that eloquent is all. While I agree with your description of ROTS Padme, my personal reading is still that her lifeforce appears to fade over the course of the film.

She does already look vulnerable in her first scene, but she was worried for Anakin and nervous about the news of the baby.
Their next scene she looks happy, flirting with Anakin and casually talking of bringing up their child on Naboo. This is the last time we see her not worried. (Off-topic "So love has blinded you?" is an underrated ironic line I feel.)

Next are the scenes involving Anakin's nightmare. This is where we get our first reference point to the recurring plot arc for the rest of the film.
Firstly notice in the first (of two) vision we see Padme seems to be screaming out for help... in the second vision she is being encouraged by Obi-Wan not to give up and weakly gasps "I can't".
Secondly she calmly asks here "Do you think Obi-Wan might be able to help us?" about their secret marriage and Anakin sternly states they don't need his help. Later on Mustafar she desperately pleads for Anakin to again accept Obi-Wan's help, with the context this time being Obi-Wan knowing Anakin is the father and that he has turned; Anakin just patronisingly smiles - the situation is much worse yet she has been reaching Anakin less and less over the course of the film.
Thirdly, Padme's claim that they aren't being honest with each other actually prompts Anakin to tell her the truth - something he doesn't give her later in the fim.

Case in point - their next scene together... Padme tries to appeal to Anakin politically and he claims she is "sounding like a Separatist". She continues to ask him to use his closeness to Palpatine to help end the fighting, but he diverts and demands she tell it to the Senate, Anakin still uneasy about Obi-Wan's similar request. This time when Padme asks what is wrong he "shuts her out", she is already having less influence in him.

I know I'm really stressing this point but Padme clearly reaches Anakin less and less as the film progresses. The next Padme scene Anakin is suspicious about Obi-Wan talking with her but Padme is oblivious. "Lost? What do you mean?" ... "They trust you with their lives!" (Mace earlier: "I don't trust him.") And Padme's appropriate advice "You expect too much of your self" falls on deaf ears. Finally, Anakin is becoming increasingly introverted and dominant as he slides - "I'm not going to die in childbirth Ani, I promise you." "No I promise you!"

This leads to ruminations and the turn, during which as already discussed Padme can only watch on helplessly from a distance.
Padme cries during the Temple raid, Imo because she is losing part of herself.

Watch Padme's reactions when Anakin visits after Order66. She believes everything Anakin says about a Jedi rebellion, whereas earlier she called him out when he was lying. "Anakin, I'm afraid!" says so much, and look at how blindly trusting she is to his claim "Things will be different, I promise!" Depressing scene.

I think I've made my point, but even if it sounds far-fetched try watching her scenes with this in mind. After Anakin chokes her she goes catatonic, even after she recovers physically. Both partners ask if the other is alright on "recovery"; Padme to Obi-Wan, Vader to Sidious.
Vader breathes his first mechanised breath and Padme slips away.

It's implied. The Ruminations scene, Padme crying because as Lucas stated "she senses Anakin killing the younglings", her looking a bit out of it when Obi-Wan confronts her at her apartment, "Is Anakin alright?" and passing out as Anakin lays burnt on the lavabank, the intercutting of Padme giving birth and dying with Vader's construction.

Im not sure what you reference here, can you clarify?

You misunderstand, that part I wouldn't call mystical, more her empathy and strong connection to / dependance on the state of her population, and a representation that later her priorities shift.

True, but it demonstrates a recurring connection between her and Naboo, a planet that repeatedly is referred to by the characters as a happier place (representing the peak of the once peaceful Republic). And like I said, it can be a metaphor writing-wise for Padme's connection to the innocent people of the Republic.

Well that wasn't even her. Padme's actual line "We are brave your highness" I'm sure you are aware is instructions for them to leave Naboo, and once again metaphorically ties Padme to her peoples plight.

Dude it's symbolism. Naboo represents the Republic before the dark times.

 

I don't see any indication for that - I guess it's hard to judge from a line that doesn't entirely make sense in itself (she knew nothing about "that hangar" at that time), but still, "that hangar" rather implies that she's primarily driven by the chase, i.e. the hangar Dooku flies towards, and the first thing she does when arriving there is trying to shoot down his ship.

Well, that's because events start happening that cause her to start worrying - same with Anakin and Obiwan and the Jedi council, that's just the general story arc.

I don't see any "lifeforce fading".

Well that's because of his character arc

I don't really know what to make of that line, as the whole "are the Separatists evil or not entirely" isn't generally featured in the movie, and the conspiracy Anakin becomes paranoid about has nothing to do with anyone being a "Separatist apologist", so that exchange is kind of disjointed from the rest.

Correct, that's his character arc and she has a harder time getting through to him, but that has nothing to do with her "losing lifeforce" or lack of assertiveness/gun-wielding.


This leads to ruminations and the turn, during which as already discussed Padme can only watch on helplessly from a distance.
Padme cries during the Temple raid, Imo because she is losing part of herself.

The "lying" she called him out on was him brushing off his concerns and pretending everything was hunky-dory - which he doesn't do in this scene.

She trusts him at this point, and hence begins feeling lost and desperate along with him - it's entirely natural to first go "the Jedi completely trust you" and then after seeing the burning Temple to lose that certainty about what's going on.

But that's all an extension of her, at least in this context, being a "home wife" whose only link to the Jedi is Anakin and to a lesser extent Obiwan - had she been active out there, discussing politics and war plans with them, it would've played out differently.
And that's probably what EpII Padme would've been doing.

Well all of this is correct, and happens within the context of, or even DUE to her being this "weakened" character from the beginning of the movie - and it doesn't amount to her losing lifeforce along with liberty, or angering feminists with her newfound passivity due to anything other than a character redesign.

Her actual death being connected to Anakin/Vader is a possibility, but this thread was about her being a more passive "classically feminine" character than in AOTC, and that part has nothing to do with any arcs or connections to Anakin.

It only "turned out" she could take a gun and bark orders at soldiers while fighting robots in the final act - until that point she appeared at least physically weak, though with an assertive personality (some of the time).

The closest she comes to her ROTS personality is as "Padme" whenever she isn't being grumpy with Quigon (which only happens on Tattoine) - second closest in the queen persona when she's not being super assertive and regal at the moment, which is most of the time.

But that aside, she appears to be "classically feminine" and physically vulnerable all the way until she "reveals" she's anything but when she drops the mask.
So she's not defenseless, but pretends to be - which means technically that representation doesn't count, and ROTS did a new thing with the way she was portrayed there.

Well yes that's what I'm saying, the one that said "my place with people" was Keira Knightley, and no one really knows why she said that - maybe the queen told her that was their ideal, or maybe they were planning some underground insurgency and just weren't gonna reveal it to anyone; or maybe it was just the thing the decoy was supposed to say to maintain the status quo until the queen made any decisions.

Wait, how do they shift?

The one thing that represents the Republic is Coruscant - introduced generally as a bright capital of optimism in TPM, it's the main setting of ROTS and follows the arc from liberty into tyranny from beginning to the end.

But despite being Padme's political "arena" in 2 and 3, that connection is heavily neglected in both movies - she starts out as an important politician in AOTC (even with the senate scene deleted), but then quickly becomes a supporting character for Anakin and largely remains that.


What Naboo is supposed to represent, isn't that clear - the most obvious pattern is that, along with Utapau and Kashyyk, it represents the Republic planets that get attacked and invaded by TF/Separatists, being the main victims of the war.

Naboo itself has some thing going with being a non-corrupt democracy, and having the appearence of a "high fantasy monarchy", and queens that believe in democracy, but the planet only shows up for the funeral at the end, and aside from the dim colors there's really no indication that they're now living in a tyranny and what that means in contrast to their past.
The Empire's probably gonna let them have their democratic elections for quite a while to keep them content - Coruscant changed, but Naboo probably remained the same for the time being.


So while there was a potential for it to "represent the Republic before tyranny" I don't think it was used, or that it's accurate to say it did.

 

There’s a term out there called “women in refrigerators”, which refers to a female character who’s killed or depowered in a way that treats said female character as a mere plot device to advance a male character’s story arc, rather than treating her as an independent, fully realized character in her own right. The way Natalie Portman’s character is portrayed in REVENGE OF THE SITH is a textbook example of “women in refrigerators”.

So yeah, I can see why many people find that problematic.

 

Heh yeah I was kind of ignoring that point when I posted. Apparently the commentary states that she just "knows" because Anakin is there, which would lend support to my theory, but I'm a little skeptical on whether that was truly the intention during filming.

Perhaps, but my reading involves the parallel to ESB with Leia not making it to the landing pad in time to stop Boba Fett leaving with Han in carbonite... Dooku has symbolically just taken Anakin's arm afterall.

It's the main reason sure, but I still get a strong vibe of the subtext I speak of. With the vision changing, the second vision comes at the start of the scene where Anakin darkly states "I've found a way to save you." He's considering using the dark side to preserve what he has with her... and the vision now basically shows her giving up. It's just a theory.

It makes sense to me. Palpatine is starting to look more loyal to the Republic than Anakin's other connections. I would agree that the "heroes on both sides" aspect of the trilogy is understated, but it is still there if you read between the lines. Lucas didn't want to shove a poitical message down our throats I think tbh. The war begins when the Jedi invade Geonosis. Palpatine will eventually pin the war on the Jedi. Both Palpatine and the Jedi claim to seek a quick end to the war. The Jedi (understandably) seek to be more and more autonomous from Palpatine. Vader will eventually rationalise the Separatists, the Jedi, and the Rebellion all as similar threats to total order.

Well I'm not entirely sure what I'm arguing with this sentence but Padme's optimism here is almost undeserved by Anakin and really demonstrates Anakin is losing his connection to her, and himself.
But from my pov it still ties into the fact they are bound.

Also when Padme says "What is it?" "Nothing." "Don't do this, don't shut me out. Let me help you." My point is she is having less effect on his decision making as he slides. When he rationalises the Jedi's "betrayal" he is lying both to Padme and himself (in Lucas's own words). Padme believes it in her desperation because she isn't strong enough anymore to face the horrible truth. They are metaphorically one.

Fair enough.

Agree to disagree I guess.

Subjective.

I guess I agree, but my reasoning for the change conflicts with yours. Trivially TPM is my favourite portayal of the character.

Not sure if you are being facetious, but I admit she focuses more on herself and Anakin.

I agree on Coruscant. But you are missing that the main players all gravitate there more as the Republic grows darker. Naboo features less and less. It is the opening and closing location in TPM. Padme is almost assasinated twice on Coruscant in AOTC - "I shouldn't have come back." Anakin and Padme hide on Naboo where they fall in love. Both Anakin and Padme speak fondly of memories of Naboo during their courtship - deleted scenes, and I read here that (possibly in the novelisation) Anakin's conceptualisation of the force for him appears as the Naboo waterfalls. They marry on Naboo.
"Hold me like you did by the lake on Naboo. Back then when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war."
The Jedi Temple being centralised on Coruscant, where it is targeted during the Jedi purge by it's own troops and the chosen one, is a pretty strong endorsement for humbler settings like Naboo, Tatooine and even Dagobah.
Naboo features once in ROTS, and it is Padme's funeral at night.
The symbolism is pretty obvious.

But symbolically everything has changed.

If you say so

 

"Women in refrigerators" is a political term by political activists, who insist that female characters can't be supporting characters because that's sexist.

I believe it originated with Firely, where some girlfriend of Nathan Fillion dies in a fridge, which marginalizes women even though the show's ensemble cast features 3 women (one of them strong and black, to boot) as leads.



Why should the political grievances of irrational activists play a role in assessing Star Wars? Well, they don't for me *shrug*

 

Love your view on Padme's symbolism throughout ROTS, makes for an interesting re-watch in a new light. What did you mean by the "love has blinded you line" as being ironic?

 

Thanks.
Nothing too profound with the "love has blinded you" irony. That was just referring to the relevance to Anakin's fall. His love for Padme blinds him to what he is becoming, supposedly in her name, and thanks to Palpatine he never really sees the truth again until Return of the Jedi.

 

Padme was the less demanding and judging person in the whole Saga. That's why she would never fit in the Imperial times that are based on 'demand and obey'.
In Episode 1 she is obliged to demand, is part of her service (ironically, but being queen on Naboo is service, not title) but eve then , in Ep.2, she obeyed without protesting to her decoy and cleaned R2D2. Many people think it is a strange move by Lucas, but it was deliberate, to show a very important part of her character: she was never prideful; she has no lust for power at all. For her the political career is service in the name of the people, for her compatriot Palpatine is a path to the ultimate power, conquest of the whole world.
About Episode 2: honestly in the beginning I wondered what are you talking about , then I remembered the scene in here apartment when she said I want answers, but even there where the price was actually her own life she did in the less demanding way : I DON'T WANT this , instead give me answers. When Anakin confronted her about the security issue on Naboo's palace she could just make some order (as a Senator) instead of this she said: it would be wiser if you take my advice. Wiser! So this is Padme in a flesh.
And now we come to Episode 3. Honestly, why Padme should go the Jedi Temple? To be killed and to expose to risk her unborn child? She would never do that. Also you said to seek answers. But by who? There is a battle there, the city is in crisis, what could she do: if the Jedi cannot handle it and they are the super warriors of the Republic, how could she help? Also, don't you think that asking questions for Anakin would put him in risk: their marriage is in secret. So if she want to help him, she must not be there, she should wait and survive and save the baby (she doesn’t know yet about the twins). And she did it.

Now about her death. I think you should re-watch ROTS. Is not Anakin who left her, she was about to left him in Mustafar, when Obi Wan appeared and all went wrong. When I say left, is not that she would give up for Anakin but she would never follow his new path, she said that to him.
And Anakin? How could you imagine a man who was burnt alive, who lost 3 of his limbs and after all this his first words were: 'where is Padme' to left her, anyway? I don't, either did Palpatine so he lied Vader about her death.
Also you said Anakin was handsome. The first usual words of handsome people in such situation would be the loss of their beauty, but not for Vader/Anakin.

So let's suppose that she survived the Mustafar events. She would never have the possibility to raise the twins, because the reason to separate them still would be there: if the Sith know about them they will search for them and especially in the case when Padme is alive. So, she should pretend that they are dead, maybe she should pretend that she is dead too (but that doesn't matter, Anakin will search for evidence is this is true) but she couldn't be with them. Never. And of course, for the same reasons, they should know about her. So, she should live separated from them till the last days of Empire, and also hiding from both Anakin and the Emperor who will destroy her for the same reason that he lied to Vader. So she wouldn't survive anyway. No matter how strong she is, this is unsupportable burden for ay mother and wife.
Not to mention that she will lost her hope for Vader. Not to mention that this Dark era will consume her. Lucas just was merciful to her character. Such grief and suffering: Padme just doesn’t deserve it.

About the poetical part of PT: obviously Padme is the incarnation of the Republic as Anakin is the incarnation of its sentinel. He failed and the Republic disappeared , Padme also is gone. During the Episodes her role is reduced deliberately not for some stupid macho’s reasons ad in ROTS not only for the pragmatic fact that she is pregnant but also because the Republic is fading. The darkness is coming and it brings death: the war began, the republic weakened, the diplomacy , i.e. the main weapon of Padme become useless because of the war. The Republic relies on democracy, i.e. pluralistic decisions, so it is governed by Senate, but the Senate has reduced power already. That's why Padme did something she would never do in different situation being strong and independent: asked Anakin for help, out of the Senate because she feels that the Senate is weaker. Her doubts in the creed of the Republic (you sound like separatist!) were demonstration how her strength is reduced (by exterior factors) and how she feels helpless and not because she changed. She always has been soft and smooth as the full-of-water Naboo (Anakin knew it very well) but the water, being smooth, blurs the rocks. But anyway she has no place in the dire imperial times, they were rude and full of death.

xezene said something very important: Padme doesn’t fit in such world in such degree that she even doesn't have the place to die. She died somewhere in a nameless rock, she even gave birth there. The world already rejected her, because is changed.

By the way, about what 2K-D2 said: I would refer to the same point about the sexual harasser... Totally inappropriate for the weird, yet still shy and immature Anakin. He became a monster in Ep.3 but it has nothing to do with that. A random look to a woman doesn’t make the person a sexual harasser. Even in the extreme politically correct ideologies. As a person who lived for a long time in the Mediterranean, and most precisely in Spain, don't say that to them. They think they will offend the women (i.e. for being too ugly) if they don't stare at them.

 

Those hot-blooded Spaniards seem to have a correct culture.


I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about any harassers though, so I'm not sure how that relates to any of my comments : - )

 

You said something about the extreme political activist views if I'm not mistaken. Nowadays this thing about the harassment is one of them. I just made a reference to that.
But speaking about those views, I say it as a woman: some acts and talks could be very molesting and give so much creep, yuck. But a single stare...rarely could make such effect. Also if Padme thinks that Anakin is offensive how on Earth she would wear a dress like this on the lake of Naboo.. I just don't get it.

 

Yoda is even more of a supporting character, yet at least he’s an independent character who’s treated as more than a plot device to advance Anakin Skywalker’s story arc. I mean, what’s Portman’s role in REVENGE OF THE SITH? Her life is put in danger to motivate Anakin to turn to the dark side. She becomes a blubbering, sobbing mess in order to show how far Anakin has fallen. She dies in order to make his turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. She gives birth to Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia so that the original trilogy can happen. That’s about it. She’s supposed to be one of the three main characters of the prequel trilogy, along with Anakin and Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yet when the trilogy draws to a close, she apparently loses all agency and volition. Compare that to how George Lucas’s friend and mentor, Francis Ford Coppola, treated Kay Adams-Corleone in THE GODFATHER: PART II.



Kay confronts Michael Corleone over the fact that he’s become a murderous psychopath, leaves him, threatens to take the children, and most importantly, doesn’t become this delicate and fragile flower that “loses the will to live” because her hubby “broke her heart” by being a murderous psychopath.

Frankly, even putting politics aside, it’s simply not good writing to have such a flat, one-note character who serves as nothing more than a plot device to motivate the protagonist, especially since her fate is supposed to be “tragic”. I honestly felt much more sympathy for Kay than I ever felt for Portman, primarily because she remains an independent, fully realized character (in fact, she’s actually written better in GODFATHER 2 than she was in the first film), rather than just serving as a plot device to motivate Michael. The scene where he coldly shuts Kay out as she’s trying to visit her son is a million times more powerful and heartbreaking than anything in the prequel trilogy.

 

That's one of the good points about the novelization (and deleted scenes) - they show that Padme is still doing politics - leading the opposition to Palpatine's accumulation of yet more power.

 

Well I was talking about stuff like "writers have to make sure all their characters represent women and minorities correctly", not so much "depiction of problematic behavior" - so while related, it's not really the same area.



But since OT comparisons are coming up... I've noticed there's a certain similarity between Padme in ROTS and Leia in ROTJ, and not in the whole movie, but particularly the bit where she wears that dress the Ewoks gave her.

Why do those bears care about dressing up beautiful women? But I digress, the point here is that during that segment in the movie, she turns into the same type of female character, i.e. feminine, vulnerable, persuading the male hero to "escape and flee far away", asking the man to hold her, while NOT necessarily being a fainting princess snowflake: there's an emotional strength of character there, but with all those tender, passive attributes and attitudes.



What's relevant here, is that she turns into this character when donning that dress, and reverts to her previous self in the next act as if nothing happened - pretty sure there's no transitions or development or justifications for this, she just becomes a different character by design, for a particular segment in the movie.

Then if you look closer, Tattoine Leia (even pre-bikini) and rebel station / Endor Leia aren't entirely the same character either - so it's like, Leia is basically 3 different characters in Episode VI.


This is obviously an issue with ROTJ's internal consistency and structure, but I think with the PT does the same thing with Padme, for the duration of an entire movie in this case:
ROTS simply "redesigns" her to fit its own intentions. I'm still gonna reply to HevyDevy etc., but I think this is the simplest explanation of what happened.



(Same with ANH and ESB really, if you notice Leia loses all her "campness" in the second movie - that's not because of "character development", but because they probably thought a sass-talking princess with a weird exotic haircut wouldn't fit the new tone.)

 

When I said Anakin was handsome, I meant in Padmes eyes, not mine, Also, Anakin didn't die of a broken heart, and he was just as sad. And Obi Wan.

 

Lucas is not sexist. Not even close...

His first draft of SW were two female leads and one male lead. But he knew that people in the 70's weren't to keen on female main characters at that time.

And I believe it originated in one of the green lantern comics were Kyle's girlfriend was literally killed and thrown into a refrigerator.

This concept ALSO happened to wonder woman's lover(and future husband)to give her character development.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Who put her life in danger, the author? The author didn't put her in danger - he wrote a narrative, in which she's put in danger and that motivates the hero.

It should be said that this isn't her only role, it's also acting as the "voice of reason", or rather voice of morality/anti-paranoia/etc.

His actions do the job of "showing" that - her "blubbering" up the tragedy and show the IMPACT of his fall.

And, again, there's no point in spinning this into "she's USED to UP THE DRAMA" kind of language - rather, thedrama of the narrative is that he turns evil and this reduces her to tears.

There again, that spin language - the prophecy IS that she'll die, so her death IS the self-fulfilling prophecy.

All we have here is a classic dramatic/tragic narrative, and this kind of phrasing makes it seem as if devious, dastardly authors are USING A WOMAN to FURTHER THEIR GOALS, which is kind of a bogus way of looking at it isn't it.

Okay so what's the issue is, that she's frail rather than defiant, or that she's underdeveloped?

The Godfather example is obviously a different reaction from a different character - Padme reacting with hatred and anger or something wouldn't have made it into a better movie by using a different personality.

This trilogy is full of lead characters being demoted to supporting characters or even tag-alongs for entire sections, but this is probably the least jarring, or even unambiguous example.

What happens with Padme on Tattoine in EpI, or with Quigon when they return to Naboo, is far worse from a "good writing" point of view - in those cases, the characters just forget about their agency, or are reduced to cliffnote spouting, while Padme in ROTS is still a somewhat autonomous, rounded character.

But those weren't examples of "strong woman reduced to sobbing mess", hence less offense potential - but putting politics aside, those should receive more criticism.

Well, I think saying she's reduced to a plot device, is way over the top - it's a 3rd person supporting character that mainly reacts, rather than acts, but she's got her own attitudes, ideals and convictions, somewhat of an "arc", and even some poignant POV moments.

 

I know that but Padme is from the 1990s and 2000s, far from the 1970s in terms of cinema.