PT Anakin and Luke's journeys ultimately run totally inverse to each other

Love the feedback guys, cheers.
This is all based off a bunch of pretty random scribblings from watching the movies 1-7 over some weeks. I was on holiday at several places along the East Coast (I live in Western Australia) and whenever there was a dvd player I tried to watch one of the films. Took a while to make it somewhat of a coherent thing.

One more post for today...





Fires



























Friendships



Anakin (about clone pilots): “I’m gonna go help them out.”
Obi-Wan: “No... they are doing their job and we can do ours.”
/// Vader: “We have to destroy them ship to ship.” (Almost succeeds, but Han comes back to help Luke out just in time.)

ROTS - Anakin helps Obi-Wan with the buzz-droids his ship. /// ANH - Luke gets a tie-fighter of Biggs’s tail ...and... Wedge gets a tie-fighter of Luke’s tail.

The buzz-droids decapitate R4, before Anakin and R2 save Obi-Wan from them. /// Vader ironically shoots his old buddy R2 during the Deathstar trench run.



Obi-Wan: “I haven’t seen you this tense since when we fell into that nest of Gundarks.”
Anakin: “You fell into that nightmare, and I rescued you remember?” (Anakin saved Obi-Wan)
/// Han: “You don’t look so bad kid. In fact you look strong enough to pull the ears of a Gundark!” Luke: “Thanks to you.” Han: “That‘s two you owe me, junior!” (Han saved Luke)

Luke is healed in bacta surrounded by friends.

/// When Anakin's bond to his family is broken, Vader is alone; treated by droids with no anesthetic to ease the loss. Fuels his hatred.






Anakin: “I can sense everything going on in that room. Trust me.” Obi-Wan: “It’s too risky. Besides, your senses aren’t that attuned yet.”
/// Lando: “Wait, I thought you were blind!” Han: “It’s alright, trust me!”



Anakin: “Okay, but you owe me one. And not for saving your skin for the tenth time.” (owed one merely for Anakin being the poster-boy for the campaign and dealing with the politicians).
/// Han: “Thanks Luke. Thanks for coming back for me. Now I owe you one.” (owed one for saving Han's life).


Mid-trilogy duo split-up –
Obi-Wan: “May the force be with you.” Anakin: “May the force be with you, Master.”
/// Han: “Be careful.” Luke: “You too.”



Anakin and Obi-Wan’s last words to each other as friends is “May the force be with you.” /// When Han and Luke are newfound friends Han tries to apologise for bailing on the Rebellion with “May the force be with you.”



Obi-Wan: “Hold on, Anakin. You're going to get us both killed! Get out of here, there's nothing more you can do.” Anakin: “I'm not leaving without you, Master!”
///
Obi-Wan (on Owen and Beru's death): "There was nothing you could have done, had you been there. You'd be dead and the droids would now be in the hands of the Empire."
...
Obi-Wan: “Your destiny lies along a different path from mine.”
...
Leia (On Obi-Wan’s death): “There wasn’t anything you could have done.”
...
Obi-Wan ghost: “Let go, Luke.”




The PT ensemble split apart and break down, seemingly cursed.


/// The OT ensemble stay a team to the very end. First noticeable when Han decides to come back and help Luke and the Rebellion at the climax of the DS battle. They consistently work as a team and seem almost blessed the force.




Another example;
In ROTS Obi-Wan is sent to Utapau, Anakin has a personal assignment pitting him between Palpatine and the Council, and Padme is mostly relegated to being stuck at home.
/// In ROTJ however, Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, R2 and 3PO are all on mission to Endor together.


Trivially, when Luke and Vader sense each other above Endor, Luke realises: “I’m endangering the mission, I shouldn’t have come!” Palpatine in ROTS obviously lacks this nobility, when he greedily plays everyone against each other. Quite fitting that Anakin's "father" and son essentially play inverse roles.



Two comments by Vader in ANH seem to reflect the events of the PT...
“You should not have come back.”
On Han’s surprise return – Vader (Angrily): “What?!?”
Like the concept of friendship has been lost by him.



Padme: “Do you think Obi-Wan might be able to help us?” Anakin: “We don’t need his help. Our baby is a blessing.”
/// “Luke? Luke’s crazy, he can’t even take care of himself let alone rescue anybody!” ... “A Jedi Knight? I’m out of it for a little while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur!”



Anakin's betrayal – Obi-Wan: “He won’t let me down. He never has.”
Anakin’s mission to spy on Palpatine culminates with Anakin turning on the Jedi and joining the Sith.
Clone's betrayal – Cody: “Hey, when have I ever let you down!”
Ends up attempting to shoot Obi-Wan in the back on Palpatine’s command.
/// Han and Lando reconciled – Lando: “Come on Han old buddy, don’t let me down!”
Han and the Rebels surprise the Imperials by getting the DS2 shield down after all. “I told you he’d do it!”



Anakin: “You’re gonna need me on this one Master.” ...
(much later) Anakin: “If you’re not with me, you’re my enemy!”
/// Luke: “I’m with you too!”



Padme: “What is it?” Anakin: “Nothing.” Padme: “Don’t do this, don’t shut me out. Let me help you.”
///
Leia: “What is it?” Luke: “Ask me again some time.” (that they are siblings)
(After brother/sister reveal)
Han: “What’s wrong? Leia: “Nothing.” Han: “Nothing? Come on, what’s wrong?” Leia: “I can’t tell you.” Han: “Could you tell Luke, is that who you could tell?”
There is some mild jealousy between Luke and Han but it is peacefully resolved at the end of the trilogy.

Some moments that reflect this;
Vader: “Where is Padme. Is she safe? Is she alright?” /// Han: “Where’s Leia?” Luke: “What she didn’t come back?”
Vader: ‘You’re with him!” /// Han: “I thought she was with you.” ... Han: “I hope she is alright.”

Resolution:







Fear



TPM
Ki-Adi: "Your thought dwell on your mother."
Anakin: "I miss her."
Yoda: “Afraid to lose her I think?”
Anakin: “What has that got to do with anything?”
Yoda: “Everything! Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering! I sense much fear in you.”

AOTC
Anakin: “Don’t be afraid.”
Padme: “I’m not afraid to die.”

ROTS
Dooku: “I sense great fear in you Skywalker. You have hate. You have anger. But you don’t use them.”
Inverts Yoda’s advice from TPM, and indicates that Anakin defeats Dooku using anger, and kills him out of hate.



Mace: “Then our greatest fears have been realised. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.”
Like Anakin, Mace will be goaded into doing something against the Jedi code, in Mace’s case out of fear for the Jedi Order and Republic.



Anakin/Vader: “I do not fear the dark side as you do!”
Anakin is questing to defeat his fear in this film (referred to as a dead-star dragon in the novelisation). But is he really conquering it by turning?


ANH
Beru: “He has too much of his father in him.”
Owen: “That’s what I’m afraid of.”
...
Obi-Wan: “Feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on one of his damn-fool idealistic crusades like your father did!”


Tarkin: “Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battlestation.”
The Empire rules by fear, it is their greatest weapon. Luke overcoming his fear and letting go of hate ultimately trumps the dark side and Empire.



ESB
Yoda: “Will he finish what he begins?”
Luke: “I won’t fail you. I’m not afraid.”
Yoda: “Oh, you will be. You will be.”
...
Yoda: “A Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware the dark side. Anger... fear... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quicker to join you when you fight.


Vader: “You have controlled your fear... now release your anger! Only your hatred can destroy me!”
Echoes Dooku’s words in ROTS. The dark side proves to bring the Skywalker men superficial victory (ROTS and ROTJ), but Luke unlike Anakin stops before going too far.

Both the Jedi and Sith seem to seek to conquer fear, but the Sith take it further, using fear as a weapon. Arguably immersion in the dark side is really the more cowardly option, as you don't have to answer to a conscience.




(And related to fear):
Shmi: “Now, be brave, and don’t look back. Don’t look back.”
Another indicator Anakin’s fear dooms him.


Palpatine: “We are indebted to you for your bravery Obi-Wan Kenobi. And you, young Skywalker. We will watch your career with great interest!”
Anakin’s allegiance to the Republic, and doing what he thinks is right for the galaxy is a large part of his downfall. /// Luke joining the Rebellion helps him reach enlightenment.

However, Luke’s conflict is quite separate from the Rebellion’s battle at the peak of ROTJ. The two fights aren’t directly connected (besides the Rebellion's plight being used to anger Luke), but you could argue that the force coming back into balance in this period makes the two “fights” (Jedi vs Sith, and Rebellion vs Empire) karmically aligned.



Leia: “ He certainly has courage.”
Luke: “What good will that do us if he gets himself killed.” (If you read into this it may suggest some fear is healthy, for survival.)
...
Han: “Going up against that thing ‘aint my idea of courage. More like suicide.”

Han almost abandons Luke out of fear of the Empire, but comes through for the Rebellion at the last moment. I love the way this moment now brings the films full-circle.

 

(This was supposed to be part of the last post, just miscounted images.)





AOTC / ESB

“The evil Lord Darth Vader... has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of space.” /// “Several hundred solar systems under the leadership of the rebel leader, Count Dooku, have declared their intentions to leave the Republic.”
/// “Tenth level. Thousands of battle droids.” /// “I saw thousands of troops attack the Jedi Temple.”


Anakin is being led his whole life. A slave, a held-back Jedi, a Sith. His quest to become master of his own fate (over the course of the PT) winds up with him subservient once more.
/// “Evading the dreaded Imperial Starfleet, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Skywalker has established a new secret base on the remote ice world of Hoth.” Luke is becoming “his own Master” whereas Anakin gradually loses will in the face of the dark side. By ROTJ Luke submits only to the force itself.


Anakin and the Jedi Temple are rooted on Coruscant, same planet as the Sith Lord. /// Luke is autonomous from the central galactic government, and in hiding.



Brotherly rivalry...
Anakin: “Don’t worry, I can sense everything going on in that room. Trust me.”
Obi-Wan: “It’s too risky. Besides, your senses aren’t that attuned yet.”
Anakin: “And yours are?”
Obi-Wan: “Possibly.”
/// There is similar rivalry between Imperial officers in ESB, curiously again related to Anakin/Vader’s psychic ability – Vader: “That’s it! The Rebels are there.” Ozzel: “My Lord, there are so many uncharted settlements. It could be smugglers... it could be...” Vader: “That’s the system. And I’m sure Skywalker is with them.”




Jango: “Zam, there can be no mistakes this time.” (later kills Zam before she can give away his identity).
/// Vader: “You have failed me for the last time admiral!” (kills Admiral Ozzel for giving away their arrival at Hoth).



Jango (on Obi-Wan): “Can’t seem to take a hint, this guy!” /// Vader: “Asteroids don’t concern me Admiral. I want that ship, not excuses.” (Part of greater parallel between Obi-Wan tracking Jango and Boba, vs Boba tracking Han and Leia).



Anakin and Padme fail a rescue attempt for Obi-Wan on Geonosis. /// Luke fails a rescue attempt for Han and Leia on Bespin.
There are many opposite mirrors between the middle episodes of each trilogy. One of the main ones – where Anakin and Padme are in hiding and fall in love (while Obi-Wan is far away on his own mission), Luke trains one-on-one with Yoda (while far away Han and Leia fall in love hiding from the Empire).

There is some irony in the fact Han and Leia are together in ESB because Leia doesn’t make it to her transport (because of a passage being blocked off) when leaving Hoth, so goes with Han on the Falcon.
/// Anakin and Padme’s tragic romance starts (perhaps intentionally?) more forcefully, Anakin’s first assignment being to protect Padme at her home on Naboo. It is a much more courtly relationship.



Anakin: “He never listens. He doesn’t understand! It’s not fair!” /// Vader: “Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?” (Funny role-reversal.)




This shot is something Anakin is facing while meditating - A yin/yang symbol in the centre of the screen, in the centre chapter of the AOTC dvd, in the middle movie of the trilogy.






Relating to Anakin's dreams of his mother's pain:


Luke: "I saw.. I saw a city in the clouds.”
Great dual symbolism... is he seeing heaven... or hell for his close friends.


Yoda's advice to Anakin regarding his visions is quite by-the-book - "...Miss them do not...", where he tells Luke (being faced with similar) how it truly is, more deeply.


Anakin: “She is in pain” /// Luke: “They were in pain.”

Anakin: “I’m sorry, I don’t have a choice.” / Luke: “They’re my friends and I gotta help them!”

Vader's luring of Luke to Bespin using a similar weakness (that turned himself) is quite masochistic, showing no regard for either his son, or his past once-noble self.





Anakin: “Aim right above the fuel cells!” / Luke: “Use your harpoon and tow-cables, go for the legs, it may be our only chance of stopping them.”






Dooku: “Brave of you boy. I would have thought you learned your lesson!” “I am a slow learner.” /// Vader: “You have learned much young one.” “You’ll find I’m full of surprises.”




Anakin slashes down at a pipe, cutting the lighting

/// Vader slashes up at a pipe, filling the chamber with steam.



Vader: “Luke, you do not yet realise your importance. You have only begun to discover your power.” /// Dooku: “This is just the beginning!”

 

Just to clarify, the two pics of Bespin and Coruscant were just demonstrations of "a city in the clouds" with three ships; a bigger ship and two escorts.

I cited Bespin as heaven and hell because clouds are strongly associated with images of christian heaven, yet here Bespin provides false hope for Han and Leia, and leads them to their own personal hell as Luke foresaw. I guess technically you can see Coruscant the same come to think of it.

 

This is awesome, HD! Thanks for tagging me
You just made me want to revisit Luke's Trilogy again!

 

Thanks! Grateful for the response.
The interworking is a pretty underrated aspect I think.

 

Definitely! To think that we're still discovering new connections between the movies... It boggles the mind.

 

Fire and Ice

Yes infact I did this comparison :

Your favorite little moment or detail in the PT?

Cheers!

MJ

 

Only one point about Vader/Luke duel: Luke releases its rage but Vader did not, that was my point. As the choreography of the duels in OT is... errr let‘s say it, not quite good still we can see if some of the foes fight back or not. Vader didn‘t, in the end he just blocked some of the Luke strikes and that was it. Luke stroke in a full uncontrolled rage as he was holding a stick, not a lightsaber. Why Vader didn‘t at least tried to use (I‘m not saying it should be successfully) a Force choke? My only explanation is that Luke is right, his father was indeed conflicted (the biggest proof that Anakin is awake) moreover, he didn‘t expect such rage in Luke. Because if we talk about skills, Vader was the skilled one. He just underestimated the impact of his words and also the “heritage“ of his son (metaphorically speaking). We can compare this to the two duels between Anakin and Dooku (a difference from Luke Anakin wins with skill but kills with rage).

 

Gave it a look, nice observations.
Pretty trippy that you have the opposite elements lining up with Obi-Wan's guidance and Han saving Luke's life, vs Anakin's ex-best friend abandoning him. I don't think many people noticed this.

I agree, I just think with ROTJ Luke at full fury there wouldn't have been much Vader in the suit could do even if he wanted Luke dead.

I would agree about ANH and ROTJ duel choreography to an extent, but gotta disagree about ESB's duel. It's so well done, you really feel in the duel moreso than the with the prequels. Luke's struggle is really built into the choreography and directing.

The PT duels are more epic in a lot of ways but I prefer the "weighty" look of the ESB sabers. It also leads well into ROTJ where we can see what Luke went through and compare for his progress.

At this stage they were pretty even I think, but a Luke at his peak if he turned would outmatch suited Vader Imo. I do understand Vader's heart wasn't truly in the fight, but it is kind of as he says "You are unwise to lower your defences!" and "If you will not be fight, then you will meet your destiny!"
Although I do get he is also trying to convince himself with those lines.
It makes it more of a payoff when he is redeemed, a starker contrast, when you look at the fact that Vader almost kills Luke a few times - in ANH (trench run), in ESB, and even for moments in ROTJ he puts Luke in danger.
Like he is coming back from near emptiness quite abruptly, granted as an extension of an ongoing conflict deep down that's been there since ESB.

Yeah, he kind of seems to get a shock when Luke makes him eat his own words

Ah but Anakin defeats Dooku by tapping the dark side also. He does outclass Dooku with skill when he focuses though, as Palpatine will tell him later - "It gives you focus. Makes you stronger." A few more quotes are relevant...

ESB Vader - "You have controlled your fear... now release your anger! Only your hatred can destroy me."
ROTJ Emperor - "Good! Your hate has made you powerful."

When Anakin and Obi-Wan face Dooku in AOTC, they are both taken out; seemingly in Anakin's eyes because of the greater strength of the dark side. When they meet again Obi-Wan - in his strict adherence to the code - is once again taken out of the fight. Dooku says something here that inverts Yoda's warning to Anakin in TPM - "I sense great fear in you Skywalker. You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them." Both Yoda and Dooku sense Anakin's "fear", but Dooku's line describes focusing the elements (Yoda stated fear lead in to) into a weapon. Dooku's line is also similar to what Luke is told in the OT, but Luke only gives in to the quicker path for a few moments in ROTJ, and comes back from it.
More to the point; once Anakin hears Dooku say this, his anger at Dooku's threats against Palpatine's and Obi-Wan's lives, and some revenge lust from the missing arm, are focused into going all-out on Dooku. Much like Luke when he gave into anger, Anakin using his anger is just too much for Dooku. I think part of the mirror between the scenes lies in the fact that although the older Sith - Dooku then Vader - knows he is testing the potential apprentice, thus holding back at first, when the younger dueler gets angry they are better than the older duelist even at full-strength.
Edit -
I agree killing Dooku was a dark side act, more out of hate than anything. Your point about Vader not using the force in ROTJ is interesting. The only time we see a force user being force-choked is when Dooku lifts Obi-Wan into the air, and this was more to get him out of the way and turn Anakin. Maybe Vader thinks Luke is above being force gripped, and I do wonder what kind of defense a Jedi could have against it.
Tonyg - Edited for clarity. I do think Anakin was more skilled than Dooku in the end, Luke alternatively just kind of goes ballistic.

 

Some clarifications to my previous post. When I said heritage, I referred to the fact that the father already fell to the Dark Side. Till that moment I think Vader sees Luke as a very light being (actually the viewer sees that too. The 'whining' and the random impatience moments, of course ,don't count). And suddenly Luke even shouts in anger and begins to strike (and indeed he uses his saber like a stick and not like a sword as it is supposed to be). This sudden surprise + his inner conflict lead Vader to a point that he almost doesn’t react to Luke's attack when it is too late to do something. So, I'm not saying that Luke did... just like nothing to win, all the opposite, but my point is that a duel is always between two persons: i.e. sometimes a mistake by one leads to the victory of the other (most obvious case: Anakin vs. Obi Wan in ROTS). Because indeed in that moment (ROTJ) Vader is more skilled duelist and with higher Force abilities. I don't know if he could be surpassed but I thought Ep.7 would show Luke in his prime (and also Lea, on that matter). but...anyway, back to the duels.

I'd like to talk a little more about the duels between Dooku and Anakin because they rhyme in the old SW tradition.
Speaking of choreography etc, AOTC duel between them is absolutely underrated cinematic masterpiece because it is not choreographed in the traditional sense, it relies only in cuts between light of the sabers and dark mini pauses. One of the so many underrated details in AOTC.
In AOTC Anakin has more rage (for the Jedi kills but also because he should be in this hangar while he wants to rescue Padme) and it is less concentrated. After the first stroke he struggles most to protect Obi Wan's life and becomes more focused (and we should say that no matter that he has less experience than Obi Wan he holds the duel pretty well till the moment when he makes a mistake and is defeated).
In ROTS Anakin has not only strong reflexes, as in AOTC, but more skill. He defeats Dooku concentrating in this skill (he defeats the count in short time and with a very professional move if I can say so) but he releases his anger when he executes him. So, this victory could be just retribution (doble paid if I can so) but ends in a revenge. It is morroring of his first duel with the count (Aakin in AOTC begins in rage but then interfere to save Obi's life), when in ROTS is all the opposite (he stikes Dooku to defend Obi and of course Palpatine's life ) and ends killing in revenge. This is indeed dark deed, but still Anakin is not ready to fall. First he feel remorse; and second he didn't 'supass' Palpatine's Sith test (to leave Obi Wan to die).

 

ROTS / ROTJ


Rescue:

ROTS crawl describes Anakin returning to his current home planet (the Jedi Temple is on Coruscant) to save Palpatine. /// ROTJ crawl describes Luke returning to his home planet of Tattooine to save Han.
ROTS opens with a fake “rescue” attempt for Anakin’s “friend” Palpatine, orchestrated by Palpatine. Palpatine has ultimate control of the situation for the most part. /// ROTJ opens with a genuine rescue attempt for Luke’s friend Han, orchestrated by Luke. Luke has ultimate control of the situation for the most part.
On finding Palpatine – Anakin: “Are you alright?” / On rejoining Han – Luke: “Are you alright?”
Palpatine: “Get help, your no match for him, he’s a Sith Lord!” /// Han: “A Jedi Knight? I’m out of it for a while and everyone gets delusions of grandeur.”

Anakin: “My powers have doubled since the last time we met Count.” (Dooku is killed) /// Luke: “It’s your choice, but I warn you not to underestimate my powers.” (Jabba is killed)










Anakin: “Easy Artoo!” /// Luke: “Easy Chewie.”


TPM and ROTJ start with failed intentions to negotiate; times of feigned peace within the Republic and Empire, despite the Galactic Civil war in ROTJ. In ROTS it is all-out war and no one bothers to negotiate.







Obi-Wan (captured): “Wait how did this happen, we’re smarter than this!” Anakin: “Apparently not.” /// Han: “How are we doing?” Luke: “Same as always.” Han: “That bad, huh?”

Grievous: “Crush them! Make them suffer!” /// C-3PO: “In it’s belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years.”

Grievous: “Your lightsabers will make a fine addition to my collection.” /// Jabba: “I shall enjoy watching you die.”

Obi-Wan: “Not this time. And this time you won’t escape!” /// Han: “You tell that no good worm-ridden piece of filth, he’ll get no such pleasure from us, right?”

Luke: “...I'm sure we can reach a mutual agreement that will allow us avoid any unpleasant confrontations.” /// Obi-Wan: “So uncivilised!"








"Another happy landing!"











Palpatine “the father” - “revenges” for the Sith. /// Luke “the son” - “returns” the Jedi.

Palpatine: “There is great conflict in you Anakin.” /// Luke: “I feel the good in you, the conflict.”

“The only reason the Council has approved your appointment is because the Chancellor trusts you.” This leads to the Jedi’s plan backfiring, with Anakin betraying the Jedi and siding with Palpatine. /// “His compassion for you will be his undoing.” This leads to the Sith’s plan backfiring, with Vader betraying the Sith and siding with Luke.

Anakin: “He’s knows the ways of the force. He’s been trained to use the dark side.”
Mace: “Are you sure?” Anakin: “Absolutely.”
/// Vader: “My son is with them.” Emperor: “Are you sure?” Vader: “I have felt him, My Master.”




Palpatine: “You have great wisdom, Anakin.” /// Luke: “With your wisdom, I'm sure that we can work out an arrangement which will be mutually beneficial and enable us to avoid any unpleasant confrontation.”
Both are feigning respect for their targets “wisdom”.






Anakin and Palpatine are both on the same side (Republic), and Anakin is practically handed directly to Palpatine. /// The Sith are searching for Skywalker, and at war with the Rebellion. Luke and the Empire are bitter enemies.

Anakin is arguably fated to fall.

(AOTC – Mace: “Go to the senate and ask Chancellor Palpatine to speak to her on this matter.” ... ROTS – Mace: “Anakin, your mission is here with the Chancellor.”)

Sidious (as Anakin pledges to the Sith): “You’re fulfilling your destiny Anakin.” /// Obi-Wan (after starting Luke on his Jedi path): “Your destiny lies along a different path than mine.” (again really highlighting the key difference between the Jedi and Sith path shown in the films) .
/// Vader: “Your destiny lies with me Skywalker. Obi-Wan knew this to be true!”

Luke looks next in line.

“You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.” Yoda states Luke must face Vader to become a Jedi, and Obi-Wan implies Luke has to kill Vader if they are to be victorious. And similarly but inversely The Emperor states that Luke must kill his father in order to become a Sith. Vader even answers Luke’s “I will not turn, and you’ll be forced to kill me!” with a regretful “If that is your destiny...”
Emperor: “Now, fulfil your destiny and take your father’s place at my side!”

These quote all really seem to emphasise Luke inevitably being set up to turn, and fittingly he is the first Jedi in the movies shown to completely conquer the Sith in a way he wasn’t directly taught to by the elder force users, Jedi and Sith alike.









In ROTS Anakin is still a general and pilot in the Clone Wars, it is intertwined with both his Jedi life and fall to Sith. Luke’s ultimate confrontation with the Sith, while happening at the same time as the final Rebel vs Empire battle, is essentially totally separate. It is a truer fight than Anakin has with the Clone Wars at the end of his trilogy. Anakin can rationalise his fall partially because the two “wars” don’t separate out.

Palpatine: “Leave him, or we’ll never make it!” /// Luke: “Soon I’ll be dead, and you with me.”
...
Anakin: "Leave me." Luke: “No, I’ll not leave you here, I’ve got to save you!”


Yoda: “Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father’s fate you will.”
- Mace underestimates Sidious’s strength and manipulative ability and tries to kill him in front of Anakin.
- Anakin thinks Sidious is about to die and intervenes, ending up his servant.
- Yoda himself tries to end The Emperor’s reign early on but fails.


“There was no father.” /// “He could even use the force to influence the midichlorians to create life.” /// “But I have no sister.”
Again Anakin and Padme bond over the PT and ultimately come apart intertwined with Anakin’s fall. Luke and Leia discover their bond in the OT, and while the knowledge nearly undoes Luke at the hands of Vader and The Emperor, it is happily resolved – “Tell your sister you were right.”


Anakin saves Palpatine and is permanently bound to him. /// Yoda passes on and leaves Luke the last of the Jedi.
Palpatine: “You do know, don’t you? If the Jedi destroy me, any chance of saving her will be lost.”


/// Luke: “I can’t do it Artoo. I can’t go on alone.” Obi-Wan: “Yoda will always be with you.”





Anakin carrying Obi-Wan and Palpatine - both Order's futures are dependent on Anakin's decisions, their weight rests on him.





Luke and Anakin (dead) escaping from DS2 after Palpatine's death







ROTS - Anakin misses a report on the outer-rim sieges because he is seeing Yoda about his nightmare. Yoda’s advice “Let go of everything you fear to lose.” is not absorbed by Anakin.
/// ROTJ - Luke misses the Rebel briefing because he was on Dagobah, Yoda passing away after imparting some wisdom on letting go. “Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall. That is the way of things. The way of the force.” He is telling Luke the same as Anakin, but presents it deeper, and Luke is naturally more receptive.
“He could actually save people from death?” /// “Master Yoda, you can’t die!”
Luke is ultimately far more accepting of the natural way of things.


Palpatine interestingly teaches Anakin two arguably paradoxical lessons on death – that “it is only natural” to kill Dooku for revenge, yet later “just happens” to mention the “unnatural” power to cheat death for a loved one. Yoda inversely teaches in the same film “Death is a natural part of life.”


Obi-Wan: “The Emperor knew as I did if Anakin were to have any offspring they would be a threat to him.”
Backed up by Sidious ordering all Jedi exterminated, name dropping Obi-Wan as he orders this to Vader, and not truly having a subservient Vader until Padme is gone.



Like mother like son...
Padme: “You’re going to kill him aren’t you?” Obi-Wan: “He has become a very great threat.” Padme: “I can’t.”
/// Luke: “I can’t kill my own father!” Obi-Wan: “Then the Emperor has already won.”



The Jedi send Yoda off-world hoping to bring the Sith out of hiding, but it backfires and Order 66 is enacted with Yoda away from the Jedi Temple. /// “The Emperor has made a critical error, and the time for our attack has come.”... “But most important of all, we have learnt that the Emperor himself is overseeing the final stages of it’s construction.”
The Jedi are spread thin by the Clone Wars. /// “With the Imperial fleet spread thin across the galaxy in a vain effort to engage us.”


“The end of the war is near General...” /// “Soon the Rebellion will be crushed...”
“Soon I will have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful.” /// “...and young Skywalker will be one of us.”
The Republic “wins the war”. /// The Rebellion actually wins the real war.




“I have failed you Anakin. I have failed you.” /// “Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete.”







"Obi-Wan has taught you well."






Anger at Obi-Wan's "defeat"








Again, Obi-Wan has quite the opposite relationship and outcome with each Skywalker, except perhaps at the very end; where Anakin is taught to force-ghost by Obi-Wan from beyond.

 

Executions (AOTC / ROTJ)


AOTC deleted scene -
Padme: "You're holding a Jedi Knight. Obi-Wan Kenobi. I'm formally requesting that you hand him over to me now."
Dooku: "We don't recognise the Republic out here Senator, but if Naboo were to join our alliance, I could easily hear your plea for clemency."
///
ROTJ -
Luke: "I seek an audience with your greatness to bargain for Solo's life."
...
Jabba: "There will be no bargain!"
...
Luke: "You will bring captain Solo and the Wookie to me..." Jabba: "Ho ho ho. Your mind powers will not work on me boy."











Jedi entrance





AOTC deleted scene -
Poggle: "You have been charged and found guilty of espionage."
Padme: "You're committing an act of war Archduke. I hope you are prepared for the consequences."
///
ROTJ -
Leia: "We have powerful friends. You're going to regret this."
Jabba: I'm sure."
...
Luke: "Nevertheless I'm taking captain Solo and the Wookie. You can either profit by this or be destroyed. It's your choice, but I warn you not to underestimate my powers."












Handcuffs







Turning chains of oppression back on enemies


















Leaps
















Artoo knocking Threepio off a ledge -

Threepio: "I almost fell! Don't worry, you'll get your... whoaaa"

Threepio: Where are we going, I couldn't possibly..."

 

Execution (AOTC / ROTJ) beasts








Obi-Wan: "Just relax, concentrate."
///
Luke: "Just stick close to Lando and me. I've taken care of everything."


Anakin: "What about Padme?"
Obi-Wan: "She seems to be on top of things."
///
Han: Where's Leia?"
Leia: "I'm here!"






















Cheering as allies are eaten!







Obi-Wan attempts to spear the Acklay but it snaps the spear in two


Luke uses a bone to avoid being eaten which is soon snapped






Killing Acklay

Killing Rancor

 

Executions (AOTC / ROTJ) continued...


AOTC
Threepio: "Please wait!"
ROTJ
Threepio: "Artoo... wait for me!"



AOTC
Threepio: "Oh my goodness. Shut me down. Machines making machines. How perverse."
ROTJ
Threepio: "Goodness gracious me."



AOTC
Threepio: "I'm terribly sorry about all of this!"
ROTJ
Threepio: "I'm terribly sorry. I'm afraid he's ever so stubborn about these sort of things."



AOTC
Threepio: "Artoo, what are you doing here?"
ROTJ
Threepio: "Artoo, what are you doing here?" ... "Well I can see your serving drinks, but it's dangerous here..."





Jango and Boba


































Failed attempt to grab Mace's saber

Luke's saber deflection knocks Boba down






Both Fetts ultimately meet their end due to a malfunctioning jetpack.

Jango can't take off when Mace charges him because the Reek trampled his jetpack


Han hits Boba's jetpack















The circle completes








Last AOTC / ROTJ

AOTC
Jango: "Don't move Jedi! Take him away."
ROTJ
Jabba: "Take him away."





AOTC
(Deleted scene) Gunray: "Get on with it, carry out the sentence! I want to see her suffer!"
ROTJ
Jabba: "They will all suffer for this outrage!"
...
Threepio: "In it's belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years."




ROTJ
Jabba: "I shall enjoy watching you die!"
AOTC








AOTC
Padme (deleted scene): "I will not forsake all I've honoured and worked for to betray the Republic." (Off-topic, she appears to have lost faith in the Republic more by ROTS).
...
Dooku: "You have fought gallantly Master Windu. Worthy of recognition in the archives of the Jedi Order. Now it is finished. Surrender, and you lives will be spared."
Mace: "We will not be hostages to be bartered Dooku!"
ROTJ
Threepio: "Victims of the almighty sarlaac. His excellency hopes that you will die honourably... but should you wish to beg for mercy, the great Jabba the Hutt will now listen to your pleas."
Han: "Threepio, you tell that slimy piece of worm-ridden filth he''ll get no such pleasure from us... right?"
Luke: "Jabba, this is your last chance. Free us or die."

 

Officially Second to last post for the thread.




The “Cloak” of the dark side


Represents the people

Dictatorship



Padme states “The battle is a diversion.” in TPM. This statement could be made for the entire of the Clone Wars because of the Sith orchestration behind it.



Obi-Wan: “It may all turn out just to be a wild Bantha chase.”
He is proven wrong when Grievous is hiding on Utapau, but he is metaphorically right when you look at the big picture. The Jedi are spending their time, effort, and sacrificing lives, searching the Outer-rim for the enemy when the enemy is really within.
Palpatine is leading their side, and a Jedi's greatest enemy lives within him/herself. Think of the Dagobah cave scene and the entire premise of Return of the Jedi.




The entire of ROTS, particularly before Order 66, is veiled. Yoda states on defeat in the ROTS novelisation that the Jedi were only trained to fight the old war, not the modern plotting of the Sith.
Comparing the ROTS crawl to the ROTJ crawl;
The ROTS opening crawl is from the Republic’s point of view - it talks about the Clone Wars, labels Dooku the Sith Lord behind the war and Sidious just his kidnap victim, and veils the real struggle and threat.
ROTJ’s crawl speaks of the real story... their war is one that is worth winning.





Obi-Wan: "Chancellor.”
Anakin: “Are you alright?”
Palpatine: “Count Dooku.” (Sidious playing weak, he was expecting them.)
///
Emperor: “Welcome young Skywalker. I have been expecting you... “I look forward to completing your training.” (being open about his own corruption and intentions).
Palpatine only calls Anakin his "apprentice" to his face after Anakin's official pledge to the Sith, whereas aboard the second Deathstar he calls Luke his new apprentice from the moment they meet.




Anakin states to Padme on their being reunited during the war: “I'm tired of all this deception.”
It is a sign of the times, the dark side of the force is dominant and everyone is shrouded, stressed, and paranoid.
In ROTJ Luke is seeing things as they are.




In AOTC the Jedi invade Geonosis. They cannot win this beginning war because Sidious controls both sides.
///
Obi-Wan: “You can’t win. But there are alternatives to fighting.”
///
Luke wins in ROTJ ultimately by passivity.





Yoda (ROTS): “The capture of General Grievous will end this war. Quickly and decisively we must proceed.” (Quick and easy path?)
///
Tarkin: “We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke.”
///
Obi-Wan/Yoda: “Patience!”
///
Luke: “Just stay close to Chewie and me. I’ve taken care of everything.”
Luke’s patience and wisdom prevail.

AOTC - "We have a job to do! If we capture Dooku we can end this war right now!”
///
ROTS - “The mission! Get to the Chancellor. We’re running out of tricks here!”
The Jedi fight a war that doesn’t really exist.

Padme: “What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we have been fighting to destroy!”
Anakin: “I don’t believe that. And you’re sounding like a Separatist!”
///
Luke: “I don’t believe it!”
Yoda: “That is why you fail.”





Palpatine basically forces a choice about saving Padme over the lives of the Jedi – Anakin is really saving her for himself. With Luke Palpatine is far more direct about who he would truly be serving– "With every passing moment you make yourself more my servant." And when Luke rejects his offer - “If you will not be turned, you will be destroyed!”






The following is quite significant, look at the wordings...

Mace: “Take a seat, young Skywalker.” (Coldly offering Anakin only further restrictions.)

Palpatine: "You're the best choice by far. Sit down. Leave us.” (Seemingly warmly offering Anakin, his “friend”, a seat with him atop the galaxy).

ROTJ
“Welcome young Skywalker. I have been expecting you. You no longer need those. Guards, leave us.”

Sidious is now showing his true colours, openly offering Luke only enslavement if he joins him. He has become complacent and doesn’t make the same effort to look like a liberator as he did with Anakin.
In ROTS both Mace and Palpatine offer Anakin a choice of "seat", and Palpatine's is far more appealing. The Emperor however doesn't sugarcoat it with Luke.






Palpatine feigns sympathy with Anakin – “They asked you to do something that made you feel dishonest didn’t they?”
///
With Luke he is aware the uncloaked feigned sympathy is all too obvious with – ‘Oh, I’m afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive.”





Palpatine makes it seem like Anakin can join him without being completely corrupted – “If you want to become a complete and wise leader you must embrace a larger view of the force.”
///
Palpatine repeatedly tells Luke he is coming closer to being his permanent slave. And Yoda warns “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny!”





Anakin: “I will quickly discover the truth of all of this.”
Palpatine: “You have great wisdom Anakin.”
///
Luke: “You’re gravely mistaken. You won’t convert me as you did my father.”
Emperor: “Oh no, my young Jedi, I think you will find it is you who is mistaken. About a great many things.”

Telling each Skywalker essentially the opposite.





“Because they Council didn’t trust you, my young apprentice, I feel you are the only Jedi with no knowledge of this plot.” (Palpatine claims of a Jedi Rebellion being the real evil)
///
“From here you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant Rebellion!” (Real Rebellion and Palpatine declaring his evil intent).

 

Nice findings! Especially between son and father (the jumps- honestly I had never noticed that) ad daughter and mother (the beasts and the chains).

 

Thanks Tonyg.

I was particularly into that last post though, the indescribable aura of ROTS and ROTJ playing off each other is one of my favourite aspects of the saga.

Seagoat
Could you please move this thread to saga?

 

Just to add a couple of quotes for clarification:

Padme's desperation in TPM is also used by Palpatine regarding this - Padme: "Our people are dying Senator. We must do something quickly to stop the Federation."
And from the ROTS script - Palpatine: "This will help bring a quick end to things." regarding convincing Anakin of the worth of dodgy changes to the constitution.

I do not believe the Jedi of the PT were necessarily skirting the dark side, but they definitely seem to be acting a little uncharacteristically impulsive in the PT. They go along with Palpatine's war because they don't realise they are trapping themselves, until the very end.
Their motives are sound, and the speed with which a lot of the public turned on them is really unfair. I think it is supposed to show the strong dark side presence in the climate of the ROTS-era Republic.

 

No prob. One sec

 

Thanx man

 

I once again have underestimated how many posts this will take, so bare with me.











"Wait for me." (ROTS / ESB)

 

Saber-lock at duel end


Saber-lock at duel end


Saber-lock at turning point...
Before using the dark side

Focusing anger


Saber-lock when weaker than Vader (ESB)

Saber-lock when stronger than Vader (ROTJ)


You could say Anakin accelerates his progress power-wise by using the dark side, comparing him to Luke in the above pics.

Finally, saber-lock at turning point
After not truly using the force

Feeling the force









ROTS counsel with Yoda

"Let go of everything you fear to lose"

Anakin fails to do this.

ROTJ counsel with Yoda, Yoda himself passes away

 

Anakin in Episode 3 has several mirrors to Luke in ESB. Perhaps indicating that Anakin – as fans might suspect - is only honestly at the "ESB level" of Luke’s passivity/humility training, even by the first half of ROTS. He is essentially never truly the Jedi he should have been until the end of ROTJ.















Grievous breaks the window

Vader breaks the window




In ROTS Anakin helps Obi-Wan hold-on

Vader keeps only himself from being sucked out











Further on the theme of self-imposed prisons I mentioned in an earlier post...

Mace: “Protect the Senator at all costs. That is your first priority.”
Regarding not going to Geonosis to help Obi-Wan, but Padme finds a loophole and convinces Anakin to go.

Mace: “Anakin, you’re mission is here with the Chancellor.”
The Jedi put Anakin closer to Palpatine instead of away on Utapau with grounding influence Obi-Wan.

ROTS Yoda: “A master with more experience is needed.”
///
ROTJ Yoda: “No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.”

Mace: “If what you have told me is true, you will have gained my trust. But for now, wait here. Wait in the Council chambers until we return.”
Arguably, if Mace had brought Anakin, Anakin would be less likely to feel sympathy for Palpatine and join him.








Obi-Wan:

Han: "Hey, it’s me!”





Obi-Wan: “Well, Artoo has been...” Anakin: "Ah, none of those loose wire jokes."
Artoo defeats the super-battle droids with oil and his rockets.
///
Threepio: “Well don’t blame me, I’m not supposed to know a power-socket from a computer terminal.”







ROTS
Anakin: “You’re trembling.” Padme nervous to admit to being pregnant.
ESB
Han: “You’re trembling.” Leia nervous to admit feelings for Han.





ROTS
Padme: “Do you think Obi-Wan might be able to help us?”
Anakin: “We don’t need his help. Our baby is a blessing.”
ESB
Vader: “He’s just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.”

Strangely, both occasions are Anakin/Vader referring to Luke (pre-birth and adult) not being helped by Obi-Wan.

 

Final Final Post


Bookends to Anakin’s fall and redemption

The loss of a family member begins Anakin's damnation.
///
He is redeemed on reuniting with Luke and accepting his own death.




Anakin is born without a father and tragically loses his mother

Luke is without a mother (passed) and gains a father briefly by redeeming him.






Note the inverse colours





Gently taking off binds

Gently unmasking





“Ani... Ani... Is it you?”

“Luke... help me take this mask off.” ... "But you'll die!" ... "Nothing can stop that now."












Shmi: “Oh you look so handsome!”
///
Anakin: “Let me look on you with my own eyes.”



Shmi: "My son... my grown up son. Oh I’m so proud of you Ani.”
///
Anakin: “You were right about me. Tell your sister you were right.” (Pride)


Shmi: "Now I am complete."
///
Luke: I'll not leave you here, I've got to save you!" Anakin: "You already have Luke."
















Passion and holding on

Passivity and letting go

 

I'm still pretty proud of this thread, would like to hear if anything specific was meaningful to anyone.

Sucks that you can only have 20 images per post, not many people would bother reading it all because of this I think.