ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

The death of the stormtrooper is undoubtedly a catalyst that affects Finn, but it's not the most important part of the scene. This part is:


Which is then followed by Plasma asking to inspect his blaster. The audience knows where this is going and it's a example of Finn being a well-written character (you'd honestly be surprised at how most characters are written to be clueless) that he recognises the danger that he's in and takes action to move first.

 

I thought a lightsaber was an extension of the person who built it. Personification of the person. The Kyber Crystal and he/she. I don't think Finn should've been able to wield Anakin's lightsaber in either of the two times he used it in TFA. Luke using Anakin's, yes I guess given he's son of Anakin. And Rey, yes, because it called to her. Am I wrong to think this?

 

Sorry, but yes. There are countless examples of people using lightsabres that don't belong to them in these movies. At one point, random Jedi give random Jedi lightsabres to Kenobi and Anakin on Geonosis. If anyone adhered to your rule, it'd be Jedi of the Jedi order.

What's more, if the lightsabre is a personification of the person, how is that reconcile when Anakin is using his blue good side one when he's an evil sith lord killing children?

 

I'd like to get a second opinion (one that agrees with me and explains in convincing detail) before conceding the point to you.

 

The notion of it being an extension is a neat idea though, and very much in keeping with Japanese bushido. I guess it might be useful if you're able to explain what you mean by "not being able to wield" a lighstabre that's not yours? Obviously one can turn the weapon on, so do you mean that their ability to use it is hindered because the 'link' isn't there?

 

This is the thing that a lot of critics, including Landis, completely miss. Finn's motivation for fleeing wasn't just that he was finished with the FO on a moral level. He was likely going to receive a very final punishment from Phasma. And so he was in survival mode. That adequately explains why he fires at and kills other stormtroopers. Not quite sure how this gets lost in the discussion...

 

Hindered yes. But not to the small degree where Finn was still able to make a contest with the trooper and then with Ren. Consider the episode in rebels too where Sabine is being schooled by Kanan. I think there was an even an episode in Rebels where young padawans were building their own where the droid instructor talked about the importance of the connection between crystal and builder. That it chose him and a lightsaber is powerless without the one it chose wielding it. Like almost completely uncoordinated trying to wield it at all.

 

I can understand being morally compelled to make a decision that may be seen as traitorous to his current group (the FO). I can see trying desert because of those feelings. I also completely get killing because it's either you or them during the desertion. What is hard to wrap my mind around as a real soldier, is the elation in killing people you've served with. I can tell you that reaction is pure fiction and there isn't enough rationalizing in the world to justify it. You will find very few service members who wouldn't chalk that up to Hollywood fantasy naivety. Which I guess is fine if they are saying this is taking place in a universe where force-choking was on a list of leading causes of death aboard the Executor.

However, had they simply toned down his enthusiasm ( but not his resolve) during his escape I think it would have come across better. He did what he had to do--no apologies and no cheerfulness about it. That could have also made his choice to become a Rebel in TLJ all the more compelling.

 

Yes. Again, he is the most well written new character in TFA. And TBH, one of the better written out-the-gate SW characters ever. These aren't deep character studies ala Manchester by the Sea or Taxi Driver, so by SW standards he's done very well.

It's incredible to me how many people don't realize that. This character was given such a robust, full arc in his first film.

 

IMO Finn is one of the better developed characters in TFA, and I found his motivations for escaping the First Order to be perfectly understandable. I also understand, and partially agree with the criticism of his readiness to shoot/stab and kill his ex-comrades on Takodana. But since this is Star Wars not Shakespeare I can understand the sacrifice of meticulous characterisation in favour of a fun action sequence.
I'm interested to see what is meant by the comments of Boyega and Johnson that Finn 'isn't playing this time', but I hope the character doesn't lose his kind-hearted charm completely.

EzraSnoke GL himself has said that anybody can use a Lightsaber, Han Solo uses one (albeit briefly) while rescuing Luke near the start of TESB. Obviously a non Force-sensitive individual like Han or Finn won't have the same connection with the sabre's Kyber crystal as an actual Jedi would, but they can still use it as a weapon. Just without the same level of skill and finesse.

Edit: jaqen I like your new AV

 

You are wrong. Otherwise Han wouldn't have been able to use the same lightsaber in TESB, nor would General Grevious been able to wield even 1, nevermind up to 4, of the lightsabers that he'd stolen from the Jedi he'd slain. And, again, Obi and Anakin are given random sabers in AOTC. And Anakin double wielded both his lightsaber and another in both AOTC and ROTS, killing Dooku with his own saber in the latter.

The films never suggest that a lightsaber is an "extension" of a person. They're presented as the weapons of choice for the Jedi, yes, but there's never a suggestion that only Jedi can wield them, nevermind that they're married to only their creators.

 

This doesn't have much to do with Finn's thread, but I'm interested to know if they've explained anything about how Anakin's lightsaber calls to Rey outside of the movies. Or is this something that they will/might explain in coming films. I hope it isn't something that gets brushed off.

 

I honestly have no idea how Finn can move forward after certain decisions JJ made in TFA with his defection, I remember when the official star wars Facebook made a post celebrating Finn for a week, and I am not joking when I tell you every post was about him being a filthy traitor, and how he's garbage for shooting his comrades, like and each of these posts had thousands of likes each, like he had the most hate going into TFA and JJ and company I don't really think helped. Rian has some serious work to do with his character and I'm not even then anyhing he does will remedy the hatred that comes towards Finn in relation to his defection.

Sometimes I wish the rumor that Finn was actually undercover and was there to rescue Poe would have been better because then all this hatred would be gone.

 

Really. I'll admit I'm not the most frequent Facebook poster, but I was under the impression that Finn was a fairly well liked character. Are you sure those comments weren't simply made by a load of ***** racists? Because internet comments sections do have a reputation for attracting that kind of ****-hurt.
For the record I'd rather Finn's defection remain genuine.

afrojedi Kyber crystals are supposed to be a conduit for the force. Which I believe is supposed to be responsible for that moment.

 

I chalk it up to going overboard with the everyman/relatable character thing. But you're correct, it's not like an inner dialogue was needed; just simply toning down the gleefulness would have done the trick.

 

I think you've exaggerated Finn's enthusiasm though. particularly at this point in the movie. During his escape, his single moment of elation is when he destroys the guns and there's no evidence to say that he's killing anyone then. And there's an important distinction to make between cheering that you've killed the enemy versus cheering that you've blown up an objective that would allow you to escape. It's not really fair to say that Finn experiences "elation in killing people". He gets no enjoyment shooting up stormtroopers and the dock control station for instance.

Later, Finn remains expressive as a character (and audience cypher). During the escape from Jakku for instance. However, as with before his reactions are again more about 1) marvelling at how far he's progressing in being a gunner given that it's all so new to him, and 2) being completely amazed by the insane move that Rey managed to pull off that allowed him to get a bullseye shot himself. Certainly, neither example is one of 'yes, there's another FO person I've killed'.

Oh well, I guess enough people have complained about it to warrant a toning down. Though I fear that without that aspect, those that dislike TFA and/or Finn will just move onto the next item on their list.

 

I really hope it gets an explanation. Because we've never seen a lightsaber "call" to anybody in a Star Wars film before. Even Rey being Anakin's granddaughter wouldn't explain it, since the same lightsaber never "called" to Luke, Leia or Ben.

That sounds like typical, fanboy internet nonsense. In the real world there is no actual, considerable backlash against Finn for being some kind of "filthy traitor" against the BAD GUYS. Come on now. Try to spend less time taking internet BS so serious. RJ doesn't have any kind of "serious work" to do on this character in regards to his defection. That sounds like the people who swear there's some kind of backlash against Han and Leia for being abusive parents to Ben, or Luke for killing innocent government workers when he blew up the Death Star.

 

I think there are some highly vocal numbskulls out there who make it a hobby to troll especially on FB. I'm also fairly optimistic that their approach in TFA - TLJ was to show some growth for Finn. JB even is stating this in his latest interview at the 6:40 mark:

I strongly believe you can like a character and at the same time have some constructive criticism for it. People who dislike Finn for the most part are either not curious about where he's going (thus not interested in thinking, reading or writing about him), or troll those who are.

Finn showed quite a bit destroying the TIEs after them on the MF. Being amazed at your skills overshadowing the situation at hand again is fantasy but it's hard to convey this if most people in the audience experience with killing comes from call of duty. Perhaps that isn't too bad of a thing if you're going for a lighter take on the situation. For servicemembers (admittedly a small subset of fandom) there's some serious contrasting going on though.

 

the lightsaber calling to Rey seems to me to be less about the lightsaber itself doing the calling, but about the Force kind of making the connection and drawing Rey to the lightsaber.

This stuff is all sketched out anyway, I'm not sure we need an explanation - mystical force and destiny does it for me,

 

It's just bizarre to me how people conflate self-defense with murder in this thread. If Finn celebrates shooting down the TIE that was trying to kill him for running from a murderous organization, more power to him. He has every right to celebrate his life.

Edit ~ I don't see the point in comparing Finn to real life service people over any other SW character being compared to real life service people. Why were Luke, Han and Leia so jubilant after they destroyed the first Death Star? They lost a ton of friends that day. Leia lost her home planet. This isn't real life, it's fantasy. Finn doesn't deserve to be critiqued on a level that no one else is.

 

Yeah, I definitely don't want a scientific reason to why it calls to her, but there has to be some way to express it metaphysically or in her level of importance overall, especially since this hasn't happen before in the movies. There are many FSs out there including the son of the chosen one. I guess the calling question comes down to what is it about Rey?

 

I agree with that. However, his elation was primarily reserved for when he blew up the guns. I don't recall him hurrah-ing much after killing troopers.

 

He hurrahed with Rey after they escaped on the Falcon, after they shot down two TIE fights. And big whoop. It was a day to celebrate. He escaped the cult that he was forced spend his childhood with against his will, the cult that he hated. He also didn't seem to have any close contact with the TIE pilot world in the FO, so it's not like there was a chance he shot down a friend.

Finn was part of an organization that he knew did evil things ("you haven't seen what I've seen, we all have to run"), an organization that he knew made true believers out of his peers. He didn't conform with them. He didn't feel loyalty to them. This isn't the United States military. It's more like a militarized Scientology… or you know, Nazis, the organization that inspired them. If people want to judge Finn as a traitor, honestly that's fine, because he is a traitor. It's just a fact that, imo, most people aren't going to be particularly bothered by "traitors" of Nazis.

 

Imagine being part of a cohort of students who are together from kindergarten to college and put into a similar situation with people you know well. You would do what you have to, but would there really be glee?

 

Are you asking me to equate SW with real life psychology? Because as a practice, I don't do that. It's SW. Imagine watching trillions of people die when a giant super weapon destroyed an entire star system with multiple inhabited planets. What would the state of your psychology be? I doubt you'd be all whoop-de-dooing from the cockpit of your x-wing.