CT Better Pilot, Vader or Han ????

In X-Wing Miniatures, Han and Vader are equally good - in the sense that both have equal Pilot Skill.

 

As Qui-gon pointed out, humans need Jedi reflexes to pilot a pod. That's why the Boonta Eve was made up of aliens with multiple limbs, or had eye stalks or certain body types that made them suitable for the race and Anakin says that he is the only human to have ever done it. Han wouldn't last one minute being good as he is.

 

Anakin was obviously the superior in dog fighting skills but maybe Han could out maneuver him if they are both given a bulky cruiser and forced to go on the run or escape from Imperials. Han was trickier and had a certain "luck" on his side.

 

Vader had experience with bulkier ships if you count the Twilight and various shuttles and other such ships from TCW. He also happily landed half the Malevolence in ROTS. He also knows spinning, which is a good trick.

 

Vader TIE Fighter was well looked after whereas Han had all kinds of problems getting the engine switched on.

 

So you're taking some friendly banter between Qui-Gon & a 10 year old & creating an immutable law out of it

& then you draw this dubious conclusion. We see largely incompetent Scoutroopers fly speeders through a dense forest at extreme speed. You telling me it's impossible for someone of the skill of Han Solo to race a pod? All bcs QG made a joke over dinner with lil' Anie.

 

It wasn't friendly banter. It was a plot point being inserted into a casual dinner scene. That's why Qui-gon snatches Jar Jar's tongue, not just for comedic effect, but as a demonstration of fact.

No, because it was a plot point. One that Lucas made in the film and Lucasfilm material repeated as part of the marketing push.

 

Vader for the win.

 

Yes. As ever Lucas uses multiple methods to get the point across not just dialogue though of course the dialogue is strong support to make the point.

Clearly there are no other humans in the pod race. They don't even try.

Now there is more to overall piloting than racing between canyons. The Falcon is the fast ship that it is due to the navi-computer being really good therefore the trips are shorter and therefore at lightspeed you get where you want to go faster.

Tons of aliens are simply better pilots in skill than Han or any human could possibly be save for Jedi skills.

 

Both.

 

Han's most spectacular feat as a pilot is flying through the Hoth asteroid field, which isn't nearly as spectacular as Jango doing it in the Geonosis asteroid field.

 

So boneheaded scoutroopers can weave their way through a dense forest at high speed but Han Solo can't pilot a pod across the desert & through some canyons?? Riight. You guys are taking a casual quip made over dinner 30 years before Han was in his prime too literally. Qui-Gon's comment about Jedi reflexes would still make sense if it were simply very difficult to fly pods. Which means that Anie is the only human who can do it that he knows of on Tatooine. Hence QG's joke "you must have Jedi reflexes". Which he probably also said bcs he could sense the Force within the boy.

 

Of course he can pilot. That isn't the question. The question is can he pod race? It's not about him taking the Falcon with all it's navigational systems et all that allow him go through the asteroid field along with his piloting skills.

Pod racing is clearly something quite different. Could Han even take a pod racer and go through the course himself? Sure. There is no reason to think he can't.

Would he have any chance at all at winning or even finishing with the speed and maneuvering needed? None whatsoever. Not in an "alien" race. If he took on other humans then that would be a different story. This is the whole point. Anakin is the only human who can do it and as far as we know ever has. Even then Anakin never even finished a race before. I mean sure Han could probably finish the race as long as he wasn't trying to win it and just finish. It's easy enough to come last but that isn't the point of joining the race.

Not in the least. This is key story information that Lucas is giving us. He wouldn't be specifically having the characters say these things unless it was important.

It is very difficult to fly them. Again as I and others have discussed before the context of what is said and when it's said is important. In story terms the entire point is clearly to mark out Anakin as being extremely special. From Qui-Gon's perspective he's seen podracing before. Very fast and dangerous. If Anakin is doing it then he must have Jedi-like reflexes ie reflexes beyond anything ever normally seen in humans.

Whatever makes you think he's joking? He's stating his clear observation.

 

Podracing shouldn't be compared to flying a ship, it's more like car racing in Star Wars. Podracing is seen as a sport. You see them Hoover, but you don't see it in the sky for long period of times. Driving a car is different than Piloting a ship.

 

In which case Anakin is even more impressive he's basically able to be a expert race car driver AND the greatest starship pilot in the galaxy.

 

You're taking these remarks too literally. Anakin is referring to the Mos Espa races. He's the only human that participates. Given that fact we can infer that very few people have the ability to compete. However, in-universe we can't turn these comments into a unbreakable law that covers racing across the whole galaxy. That's silly. Unlike you guys, Wookiepedia sums this up in a far more measured & realistic way:

Podracing was a sport generally partaken in by aliens. Due to that fact, the slave Anakin Skywalker believed himself to be the only human capable of podracing. In 32 BBY, he was the only member of the species who participated in those races around the Mos Espa region.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Podracing

You see. That's an intelligent rational take. One that doesn't make broad sweeping generalizations that apply everywhere & for all time. It's noticeably devoid of PT fanboy chest-thumping designed to say that "Anie is the bestest ever!". Perhaps what the Wookiepedia folk took into account is a fact I've mentioned several times, & one you've failed to address. We see stormtroopers fly speeders at extreme speed, weaving through a dense forest while firing blasters at fast moving targets. Which frankly looks more difficult than the podrace in TPM. Stormtroopers neither possess Force powers nor an ounce of competence at almost anything they try their hand at. Yet a masterful human pilot like Han, if he had enough practice couldn't race a pod??

 

The Force gives heightened senses and reflexes, so pretty much impossible. It's demonstrated in the films many times.

 

Speaking as both a pilot and a swordsman, there's a lot more to both skills than senses and reflexes. Good training, regular practice, solid theory, and hands-on experience will beat senses and reflexes at least 9 times out of 10.

 

Speederbikes and Swoop Bikes aren't as fast as Pods, nor as complicated to operate. Look at Sebulba, he needs four hands to pilot and deal with the issues brought up by using the pod engines. Anakin can only do it because he can see the problems before hand and move to correct them. Qui-gon himself makes a point about needing Jedi reflexes and that he can see things before they happen, which is why he has such good reflexes.

 

Have you seen Star Wars? The Jedi's reflexes and speed are enhanced to superhuman levels by precognition granted by the Force. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to deflect blaster bolts, something non-Force users obviously can't do. A non-Force user can't keep up very long as seen with Obi-Wan's battle with Grievous, and that was a cyborg enhanced with extra limbs to compensate for lack of Force powers.

Real-world explanations don't apply when we are talking about a space fantasy with superpowered wizards.

 

True. However, both have the training, the practice and the experience. The point of this thread is probably to (a), determine which of those categories are mastered better by each pilot, and (b), determine which categories have the most import on skill.
Unfortunately, we most frequently see Han and Anakin flying different kinds of craft, so it's hard to compare the proverbial apples and oranges.

 

Let's look at ANH when the Millennium Falcon was escaping the Death Star. Luke (Force sensitive with some training) was in one gun turret, and Han (non-Force sensitive with years of practice and experience) was in the other turret. Which one was first to kill a TIE fighter? Han. Which one killed the last TIE fighter? Han again. The Force may have helped Luke match Han's skill, but judging by the kill count, Luke didn't surpass Han's skill.

 

Sarge
I agree with your point. I'm saying that there are very small differences between Anakin's and Han's training and experience, and I think it could be that Anakin's force powers would help him best Han. Keyword there is could.

 

Force powers give a character an edge, absolutely. But IMO it's not an insurmountable advantage, just an edge.

 

Naturally the Force provides a BIG advantage. No one's denying that.

How many extra limbs do these guys have?



None. Therefore you must be suggesting they have Jedi-like reflexes & "can see things before they happen". I don't think so. I think there would be rare exceptional human pilots who, if they trained for long enough could effectively fly a pod in a race. The pilots above prove that you don't need extra limbs. If idiot scout-troopers can weave through a dense forest at lightning speed, Han Solo can fly a pod round & round a racetrack.