ST Reformed TLJ Haters: What changed your view?

I saw it the second time while I was high so I loved it after being abit disappointed the first time.

 

Passions tend to cool with time so perhaps a portion of the TLJ's haters approach the film now that the shock and anger has worn off?

Emotional responses to the film are suspect anyway, overly praising or loathing.

 

I knew there was a lot of nee jerk reaction - nice to see some people have grown to like TLJ upon a second viewing

 

First viewing, no spoilers at all.

I was the whole time thinking about "what will fans think about this scene" ... "what fans will say about this" .. while I was watching it. It was like I was in this forum while I was watching.

I remember that when Maz appeared, I was thinking "oohh no, this is not going well, this is looking like AOTC...", even though I quite like AOTC, but it is weaker anyways.

The final half of the movie kicked ass, but when Luke died, I was thinking about what fans would think instead of what I thought.

To sum up, I was not watching the film... I was reviewing it in real time.

I left the theather, and my only thoughts were "wow, it was a lot to process... "

Then, at home, I spent 2 hours alone thinking about what I just saw. I did not go online to not impact my true feelings, at least before I could process what I saw.

My initial conclusion was that it was not as good as Rogue One, and it had some low points, but with quite a lot of high points as well.

My initial score was about 7/10.


Second viewing:

This time, I was watching the movie, paying attention to the story, to the symbology, to the arcs, to the messages.

I was no longer reviewing the movie in real time... I was just watching it.

And.... it kicked major ass.... 9/10 or maybe 10/10... up there with Rogue One, ANH and TESB

After then, I had several other viewings, and my score has not changed. TLJ is a great SW film, but I can see why some people would not like it.

TLJ is not perfect. TLJ is not the Godfather part 2. But TLJ is one heck of a good Star Wars movie.

 

I don't normally double post, but after reading this, I just had to.

Your post was heartwarming. Amazing !

 

I didn't hate it the first time. But I was definitely feeling uneasy about where the movie was heading. I did not like the humor, or where Luke was at the beginning of the movie. It was only after the movie was over that I realized the bad humor (for the most part) was confined to the beginning, and that the movie would do Luke justice in the end. So the second time, I did not feel uneasy about the humor or Luke because I knew my feelings would change by the end.

 

The one and only really uplifting and meaningful post I have read about a positive with the TLJ that resonates with me. Thank you for sharing.

 

I was never a "hater" so I don't know if this is the thread for my feedback, but my feelings definitely evolved over multiple viewings.

The first time I saw it was the 1am show on preview night. I felt the Luke/Rey/Kylo/Snoke arc was satisfying. Thought the hyperspace tracking/pursuit macguffin was kinda dopey and needlessly convoluted (I hate hate HATE when Star Wars gets technical -- technical SW is always stupid because Star Wars). Wasn't sold on the Poe/Holdo conflict. Didn't find the Finn/Rose subplot compelling, was kinda disappointed in the characters and world-building in Canto Bight tbh and thought DJ was just ... weird. Space Leia didn't bother me, per se, but I thought it was odd that there didn't appear to be an airlock or any other way to actually get her back into the pressurized part of the ship. But, ya know, Star Wars.

So basically, I loved Luke-in-the-wilderness, had no problem with Rey Random, was satisfied with Kylo's further descent into darkness, and thought the murder of Snoke was very cleverly written. Holdo's lightspeed attack was just stunning (you could hear audible gasps in my theater). I thought the Crait sequence was visually amazing but thought Rose's rescue of Finn was a bit of an eye-roller. I thought the final battle between Luke and Kylo and Luke's death was basically perfect, and for me it was completely in keeping with Luke's character and the Jedi principles of non-violence. All of that worked for me.

I should say at this point that I missed that broom boy uses the Force to grab the broom. Dunno if I looked away or what, but I didn't see that the first time. And I was kinda puzzled about the books on the Falcon -- I thought, did I miss that? Did they cheat there? When did Rey get the books? Did she have time to do it before Yoda set the tree on fire? This seems like an important point and the movie should've made that clearer.

So I left the movie the first time with mixed feelings -- mostly it felt kind of messy, like it was a movie with important parts that were absolutely great, but it wasn't great overall because some of the less important story elements were a little undercooked and some of the character moments felt unearned. I definitely didn't love it.

What started working on me the next day was the scene with Threepio on Crait, where he says, "Master Luke!", and Luke winks at him. And it reminded me of the C-3PO comic that came out after TFA and how wistful the end of that story was, and how it opened up the possibility that some droids may be dimly conscious. And I kept turning that over in my head and then it just hit me how deeply thought out the end of the movie was -- how everything that happens had been methodically set up and foreshadowed.

So I went to see it again the next day, and I dunno. The problems I had with the dopey plotting of the chase, etc. just kind of fell away. I don't know why. The things that bothered me, I dunno, just didn't seem that important.

Over the holidays I read a lot of reaction here and elsewhere and was really shocked at some of the negativity. I was heartbroken for some of the forum regulars I know who were just crazy angry with what they saw and honestly, I just didn't get it. I still don't get it. I feel like we must've seen different movies.

A couple of weeks later I saw it a third time and had more of the things that people had complained about in the front of my mind -- the humor (I admit that Poe holding for "Hugs" feels forced and out-of-universe), Luke tossing the saber, Luke milking the sea beast, Luke being cranky, Reylo, Rey being "nobody", the lack of a backstory for/sudden murder of Snoke, the uselessness of Canto Bight, the (for some) bad acting/bad writing/bad plotting, whatever. And... I just didn't see it. All of these things just didn't seem like deal-breakers for me, and the emotional parts of the movie resonated even more strongly. It helps that I felt John Williams was "on" in this movie in a way it didn't feel like he was for TFA. I'm a musician and I can't overstate how important that aspect of the film is for me. I also have a little bit of a self-study background in psychology and spirituality and am old enough now (52) that some of what seems like "deconstruction" of Luke in particular, and Yoda's words about failure, and all of that -- man, it just hit home for me. It felt so true and so right and so brave and humane for this film to try to make that point with its hero characters and use them to show how failure is a part of life and can still be redeemed.

I also thought it was -- I won't mince words here -- f'ing brilliant to try to SHOW what Obi-Wan meant when he said his final words to Vader. How, exactly, does one become more powerful than you can imagine if you're struck down? And seeing those kids, and broom boy... It's such a self-consciously meta-moment, and it struck me that RJ is talking about Star Wars itself there in that scene, and how powerful it is, and how much more powerful Luke Skywalker is in death than he ever could've been using the Force to crash a Star Destroyer onto somebody's head or whatever, and man, it just gives me the feels, big time.

I saw it for a 4th time today, and I dunno -- I just have come to love this movie. I love the parts I loved even more, and the things that bugged me still bug me, but a lot less. It's like when you go scuba diving and a little bit of water sneaks into your regulator -- yes it's annoying and yes it would be better if it wasn't there but you just learn to breathe around it somehow.

Sorry so long. I honestly feel for the fans who were let down by the film, and hope they can find some way to remain fans of the parts of the saga they love, and maybe just breathe around this movie for now and hang loose for the upcoming anthology films or IX.

 

This, so much this!

 

To everyone in this thread:

 

My experience is a lot like others in this thread. I did not hate it after first viewing but I had some major issues and left the theatre underwhelmed for sure but knew i need a second viewing, i found both TFA and R1 got better for me after a second viewing even though i liked them on first viewing. This time I knew i needed a second cos it was clear i had not taken things in or in right frame of mind.

Over the next two days some things began to clarify for me and I was confident I would like the movie more next time around. After second viewing i enjoyed it far more and I am sure it will improve further upon future viewings which may not be until i have the blue ray. I am really looking forward to being able to watch and disect this at home.

One thing I have to say and I know others have said this already but I spent too much time on this forum reading (and contibuting at times to) speculation. I did not have any expectations but was thinking Rey was Lukes etc. As someone else posted I also had read the script leaks a few days prior and after being very hyped for the movie (especially after LFL gave Rian a trilogy) my expectations were very high and then the script confused me. Basically all the forum reading, speculation etc made me think I knew what this movie had to say to me. I didn't have a clue really and hadnt given it a chance.

Second viewing I had consolidated my thoughts and just watched it for what it was and allowed the movie to tell its story. Its a great movie and leaves us in a really interesting place for ep 9.

 

I wasn't a hater after the first viewing but I walked out somewhat sad. Part of that was the combination of not expecting Luke Skywalker to die (though I think the film captured it brilliantly--best death in the saga) coupled with Carrie Fisher's actual passing. As I was clearing snow and ice off my car in the parking lot, there was so many unexpected twists to process. I didn't care about Snoke being taken out or the fact that we weren't saddled with a ton of exposition about who he was (he was never all that interesting in the first place). As I was looking back, I thought the highs were incredibly high (Mark, Carrie, Daisy and Adam had great performances, the final act is amazing, all of the island scenes, etc). But I was annoyed at the amount of time spent on the Canto Bight excursion and thought the final scene was a little too on the nose.

During the second viewing, I could sit back and relax. And there were a few things that still bothered me. I understand the point Rian was making about failure and understanding that acting heroic can jeopardize the larger mission, but the amount of screen time on Canto Bight is still excessive. Despite these flaws, I really love the overall movie. Some of the complaints being made on this website drove me more into TLJ camp as well.

 

Great post, Xinau. I’ve seen this narrative a lot with this film. I really think it can throw you the first time. But I also think it can get under your skin. And I think once you know it’s rhythms, it can really resonate. I love it to.

 

I delayed my first viewing of this film by weeks as I wasn't much of a fan of Force Awakens, and really hesitant with all of the early leaks about Luke. As December passed, and still without seeing it, I heard about some of the complaints about character decisions, plot points, flying Leia, etc. My brother, and long time buddies all were disappointed in it. This includes one of my fanatic pals who had his SW artwork selected, and featured at the premiere. (So proud of him!)

Then, this week, I finally mustered the courage to go see it. And me, being laughably the most critical of 'all things art' in my little circle—loved it.

People will come around I think. If they don't, it's their loss. I just hope 9 has a shot of being as equally hard hitting, and engaging. It'll be all up to the NEW cast this next time around.

In the mean time, TLJ has left us with a lot to chew on. What a heavy film! Last Jedi freaking ruled!!!

 

For me the movie is not bad but I would like to see it as an alternative story

 

Maybe you're looking for the "Rate The Last Jedi" thread?

 

I've gone the other way. I really liked it when I first saw it.... But the more I've thought about it the more it's annoyed me.

That's a first for me as usually my initial reaction (good or bad) holds like forever lol!

 

Have you seen it a second time? Or just thought on it more since the first viewing?

That's an interesting take that I can appreciate.

 

I expected more weirdness than there was, TBH, and left the first viewing feeling thoughtful and slightly flat. I too thought Mark was hammy in the Ben-striking scene, the Canto Bight excursion seemed pointless, I felt that the Rashomon sequence really didn't get across the intensity of what Luke felt at that critical moment, I cringed at Leia's Mary Poppins moment, and I couldn't work out why Rian had played Hux for laughs.

But there was a lot to think about, and the more I thought through it, the more I saw what Rian was doing, and the more impressed I was. The second viewing, I enjoyed it a huge amount more.

The third viewing - with my adult kids - was the one where I found myself welling up at moments all through. Holdo's lightspeed sacrifice - wow. Luke's passing. Ben's utter isolation. With the mechanics understood, I could get to the feels. It helped that i'm not a big Luke fan (I'd have been miserable if Rey had died). Luke unbalanced the whole plot, so really his physical presence had to go.

I still think there are flaws, but in a film this huge and this radical, that's not surprising. The next movie could go in any direction, which is the best thing of all.

 

No I've only seen it the once. Maybe I need to give it a second viewing before it ends its theatrical run?

 

I would. I mean, obviously it may not connect, but between the first and second viewing I couldn’t actually remember the whole, more bits that did chime. I did wonder if a second viewing would connect more or less, but it really clicked for me. I think it helped reading a couple of the better positive tales on it as well.

 

Part of the inner critic inside all of us wants to start thinking up what we are going to say to people about the film on first viewing almost as it’s happening. As that’s happening it’s also easy to miss little details and lead to questioning plot holes that aren’t really there. And then you get thinking about those and you’re out of the film further.

Did we like that scene? Yes? No? Why?

Why did that person do that? I don’t see why they didn’t do this instead. Your mind starts wondering about this as it’s happening even if the mistake was simply missing a line of dialogue earlier or how something else will come back and pay off later.

Watching Luke for the first time you’re wondering how he gets to this place so much and so concerned for him as someone who cares about him that it’s easy to not empathize initially. If you had your own strong opinion of what Luke should be and had forgotten about many of his character’s inner weaknesses it can be harder but seeing it again you can tell Johnson put a lot of time into trying to get into Luke’s mind if the moment with the Emperor wasn’t the end for him and if he had pulled back more out of love for his father than anything else and hadn’t fully figured out how to keep the Dark Side away perfectly for the rest of his life. Second viewing you sympathize with Luke more and root for him to find peace of mind and the enlightenment he needs to be with his father and friends in the Force afterlife as a man experiencing a crisis of guilt and frustration with the Jedi.

When you have worked through those kinds of things with more time away to think about it all more and unpack it more and go back you instead relish your time with Luke and look forward to his return and marvel at the little choices he makes and works through this with everyone.

Aspects of the chase seem to come to life better and you just enjoy the drama of it more and realize the FO is just super arrogant and believes they have no reason to take any further risk because maintaining the status quo will ensure their victory.

Your inner critic is coming in less to take mental notes for what you will say online or to your friends and family about the film and you are transported more toward the younger you who has watched various Star Wars films countless times to the point where you start liking supporting characters and details and visuals more. There’s so many highlights to enjoy and you’re able to just sit back and smile more at them and think “Okay, that actually was pretty cool, or funny, or well done.”

I think that’s probably the biggest difference. Getting out of my own head cannon and out of my head more and just being able to see how the scenes come together and how they actors are putting their hearts into this and how it all builds to such a thrilling climax. Each new viewing seems to reveal a new thrill to notice or look forward to.

 

I can’t contribute too directly here except to say I enjoyed reading what people wrote. For me TFA was the only Star Wars movie I didn’t love on the first viewing and it left me bummed out for about 18 hours until I saw it again. I mostly have no defense for that though because I was so tired (the marathon 7 movie showing) by the time I got to TFA I just flat out missed key plot points. And since I saw TFA 40 more times in theaters during the first run it’s safe to say I loved it the second time but at least I now know what it feels like to leave the theater a bit ambivalent. So funny to imagine now as I love TFA.

 

I basically let go of what I thought should have happened and appreciated what did happen! My only concern left over is that a lot of the interest (answers to big questions) I had moving forward have been snuffed out...

I think this film is fantastic - But shut down a lot of what could have made it possibly the best SW film ever!

 

NVM