ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

All she saw related to the massacre was Luke & R2 outside of the burning temple. 'The Kylo & his squad killing people in the rain' scene was just them doing their FO/bad guy thing and was NOT related to the temple. And no, the Force-back was not only about the saber and its journey... that was an early idea for it but later changed.

 

Lol wait so you realize that you just described what it literally is to make fun of people? People are laughing at (amused by) fans (actual people) because of their “denial” (opinions on fiction) despite the answer being so super obvious (they’re dumb).

And? What’s your point? I know perfectly rational, awesome people that still think that even after TLJ, of the casual fan variety. Anyone mocking them for it look pathetic to me. For business people to do that to their paying audience is absurd to me, unless their goal is to make some in their audience less inclined to give them money.

“Hounded”? Based on these tweets, he looks to me like he’s getting hounded by fans that are desperately seeking affirmation that they’re correct in their mockery of fans for how fans are looking at fiction.

Edit - on the saber vision - I think we know it’s not about the saber itself. So the question remains, what on earth was it about? What is the logic of it? Why did Rey go to Bespin? Why did she see the KoR? It’s kind of like the plot of TLJ - “Rey’s story” is really primarily Rey bearing witness to someone else’s story.

 

Ah, I haven't been lol'd at in a while! No, actually I didn't describe making fun of people I'm talking about being amused by theories.

Oh, so now you are accusing me of mocking? Cause last time you said you were referring to a convo w/ @CEB .... I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing out that despite your previous accusations that Pablo is 'insulting' fans for 'theorizing', when he's clearly talking about something he feels was answered.

?? I'm referring to the list of various tweets that supported Rey being unrelated,specifically the ones regarding whether Rey would remember what her parents looked like, and yes he was hounded by people who felt their headcanons were threatened by his answer. I've seen lots of attacks on him like this, as well as people tweeting violent threats against Rian Johnson, etc. A sure sign of a toxic fandom.

 

Wait by “level of denial” you meant “theories,” not the people in that alleged denial? That... doesn’t make sense. Who exactly comes up with these totally in denial theories? People? Or do they spring up from the ether?

Well yeah because now I’m responding directly to you. I have no idea what your overall point is here other than it’s non-responsive because there really isn’t a good answer, so that’s cool. If he and you and I feel it’s answered, cool, and still some people don’t, which is also cool.

You know what’s a sign of a toxic fandom? Widespread mockery of fans, actual people, for theories and opinions on space opera.

 

@AhsokaSolo Get back on topic please. There has already been one warning to drop the Pablo discussion.

 

EDIT; just saw the Mod request

Pardon me I should've worded that differently.
Your OP: There’s a bunch of tweets very recently posted in this thread where he makes fun of fans for how they speculate with other fans that tweeted him for the purpose of making fun of those fans.
My reply: Orrr people aren't making fun of those fans but instead are amused by the level of denial that still exists despite being told the answer through the film, JJ, RJ, etc. etc.
Your reply: Lol wait so you realize that you just described what it literally is to make fun of people? People are laughing at (amused by) fans (actual people) because of their “denial” (opinions on fiction) despite the answer being so super obvious (they’re dumb).
My reply: Ah, I haven't been lol'd at in a while! No, actually I didn't describe making fun of people I'm talking about being amused by theories.

My point was talking/joking/whatever about fan's denial/theories/etc. isn't making fun of the people, it's specifically about their ideas, which people have every right to agree or disagree with. People can of course come up with various ideas & theories, but ones thoughts/opinions are not that person.

I did respond when I said; "I'm not mocking anyone, I'm pointing out that despite your previous accusations that Pablo is 'insulting' fans for 'theorizing', when he's clearly talking about something he feels was answered."

 

I refer to the fact that beauty has tendency to suffer nothing more than smudges when faced with conflict. A fact parodied by Legolas in Lord of the Rings. Everyone else gets bloodied and covered in dust, but Legolas never suffers more than a smudge (the worst damage was a nosebleed in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug). Star Wars tends to have a problem with that trope.



When one looks at Luke in TESB, we see that he's disheveled and covered with scars. His clothes are damaged and he's yet to lose his hand. This is a character that has suffered through hardship. He is relatable in that image. It's a great subversion to the idea that the hero never suffers any serious wounds or anything that might permanently damage their looks. Compare that to the ST heroes, who all look find and dandy even they just went through a lot of hardship. Rey in particular suffers nothing more than a bruise on the head, and that looks temporary. It's quite disappointing because I was hoping she would subvert the double standards and highlight the fact she can be just as bloodied and disheveled as Luke and still look badass as a Jedi.

 

Luke lost a hand that was replaced five minutes later. It's not like he was getting around with a hook in ROTJ.

 

His artificial hand was then shot by Jabba's goon, revealing the circuitry within. He then covers it with a black glove, which becomes a red right hand (or in this case, black) for the remainder of the movie. It may not be a hook, but it was a visible scar that we come to see as mechanical despite the skin prosthetics being near perfect in the last movie.

 

Your whole point seems to be that the wounds are always cosmetic with Rey vs. Luke. Luke's loss of a hand is also purely cosmetic.

 

The loss of a hand also represent a defeat in battle or a sign of things to come in Anakin's case. It's not just the loss of hand. It can also be a scar. Kylo Ren suffers a scar across face. But Rey doesn't suffer scars during her journey, and Finn's wounds were healed off screen with no lasting consequences even though it could serve as a reminder of what he had suffered before.

When you look at Aang after he was nearly killed by Azula in Avatar The Last Airbender, he still retain the scars he suffered from her lightening strike. It remains there as a reminder of his defeat and near death. And we shouldn't forget about where Zuko's big eye scar came from...

 

I'd say being told you're nothing and that you were abandoned by alcoholics is going to leave a scar--just not physical.

 

And what is the reminder of that? When Luke finds out the awful truth about his father, he lost his hand that became a symbol of everything he fears to become. The black glove that covers his mechanical hand represents that fateful day.

Rey, as far as I can tell, only suffered a bruise for her troubles. Not something that will remain with her for the rest of her life. She doesn't feel like she's changed from that revelation at all. It's rather disappointing. Especially when considering that Korra had a lot of more non-physical scars that were more visible in her character design between Season 3 and Season 4.

 

I must have missed something. In what way is having a prosthetic hand "purely cosmetic"?

 

When it presents no functional impairment?

 

Luke's hand loss and Anakin's are really connected. He went rushing in unprepared and he suffered for it, just like Anakin did with Dooku. There is a meaning in this. It's not about making Luke ugly or something; it's about what the loss of that limb MEANS for the character. It's symbolic. As Luke looks at his lost limb and then how Vader is nothing but machine replacing lost body parts, he realizes what he is becoming.

Rey gets a bit battered in TLJ as does Finn. Rey's arm is cut, and she ends up with a bruise on her head. It's not like she left the throne room without injury.

But mainly in a story it's about what injuries like limb loss mean. I didn't process what Thor losing an eye meant in Ragnarok but he lost one just as Odin did. Oedipus I recall can "see more" when he is blind than when he had sight (he is wise now, though it's this sort of terrible wisdom). There are always symbolic meanings involved in character blindness or losing an eye.

So my whole point is it's not about how pretty or ugly people are. Saw Gerrerra, for example, isn't physically damaged just for the sake of it in RO. It speaks to his extremism and the cost of that (very similar to Vader actually). Is it true that female characters in general in movies show such things to a lesser extent? Yes. But this is because female characters are not as diverse in range as male characters in movies in general. Male characters can be of all types and used in all ways. Female characters are still limited as compared to male characters. Increase diversity of female character use/type and some of this symbolism will start coming into play more. Just marring up your female lead just because is pointless IMO. I don't even associate Rey with her beauty. This isn't Snow White. The point of her character isn't to be a beauty.

(I haven't worded this carefully as I'm in too much of a hurry.)

 

Also regarding the LOTR elves they have this sort of "purity" about them. They are beautiful and immortal, and good magic is behind this. But many tend towards snobbery and arrogance. They are highly susceptible to temptation because they are so powerful. Their ugly side is shown by the orcs especially--tortured elves. And a simple Hobbit is purest of everyone in the story. Frodo held out so long against the temptation of the ring. He was armed with the simple but powerful things in life, such as friendship, love and faith. And he endures suffering that might very well break many an elf. The elves are beautiful... and fragile. Their immortality and magic protects them, and in a way that makes them weak.

 

This is from Grey Matter in a different thread but seems to interesting to keep in the other thread exclusively:

 

I didn't know Bobby Roberts was a Reylo

 

It’s an awkward comparison to me because I’m not sure Rey got any revelation here. She’s not “nothing.” Kylo Ren disparaging her in that way wasn’t some truth-telling moment. That’s not a revelataion of any kind.

Then we have the part where she “learns” she was abandoned... except, they keep saying both in TFA and TLJ that Rey already knew that. She’s always known. This kind of a “reveal” shouldn’t play out like Luke’s with Vader. It’s a much more internal, personal conflict within Rey. I’m not clear at all why that particular moment with Kylo Ren should have any long term impact on Rey. Is it the moment where she accepts what she’s always known anyway? Why, because Kylo says so? Why does what he says matter about something Rey herself knows without him? I would think the cave scene would be a bigger moment for Rey in the long run. In the bigger picture, accepting a truth always known isn’t a loss. It’s a good thing. Rey’s life was hindered by a delusion. One could never say that about Luke learning Vader is dad. Sure he needs to face it, but his life wasn’t held back by the belief that his dad died a hero.

This all feels like another example where Rey’s story suffers from these artificial comparisons to someone else’s story. Luke learned the truth from the bad guy (his dad tho), so Rey must learn the truth from the bad guy (nobody to her, and she already knew anyway).

 

Makes you wonder why Rey wouldn't bother to ask how he k ew such a thing, given she questioned Luke for the truth.

 

Well, first of all she gets more than a bruise. She'll likely have a scar on her shoulder. A Praetorian guard clearly stuck his blade right into her shoulder in the scene.

Secondly, Rey was repressing her past. This was first established in TFA where she says the'll be back. She's living in denial. Maz then tells her that whomever she's waiting for. They aren't coming back. This could be interpreted more to the audience that they've died (Which they did). What she hadn't really come to terms with is that they abandoned her for sefish reasons and that she comes from horrible parents. She's in the middle of this saga involving all of these famous names and she's a nobody without a last name at all. She still isn't sure why the Force chose her and who she will become but she's trying to do the best she can in each moment and learn and that's what she's doing.

 

The physical scar from Rey's TLJ battle is the lightsaber itself.

She failed in her attempt to bring Kylo to the light side.

Their differences in irreconcilable motives caused the lightsaber to split in two.

This is Rey's reminder.


It's even the last thing on her mind in the movie, when she asks Leia "how they're supposed to do rebuild with this." Metaphorically talking about both the lightsaber and the resistance.

 

Her “failure” was never her responsibility nor her fault though, and it still resulted in the more powerful and dangerous Force user being removed from the game. So I hardly count it as a failure. And she still gets named as the next Jedi despite her last scene with Luke was basically her attacking and subduing him. Consequences for one’s actions? Eh, who cares. She stills gets stuff for free at the end of the day.

Would be nice if the writers actually gave her some compelling challenges though. But with the way they set things up, I’m not very hopeful. I’m sure in the meantime, the Resistance and the lightsaber will rebuild themselves.

 

This x 1,000. To me, her failure wasn't her failure to save the bad boy. Her failure was her stupid logic that brought her to FedEx herself to the Empire and hand over Luke's location to Snoke. She just got lucky that Kylo bailed her out of that one by killing Snoke... so yeah, I guess that further supports the idea that she suffers no real consequences for her mistakes.