ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

When did Rey accept that she represents any order of the Jedi?

I dont think she is even a jedi at this point.

Does she want to be a jedi?

They didnt show or tell us.

I think they are misleading with this whole last jedi stuff.

I think that Ben Solo is the last jedi.

My brother keeps telling me that they are purposely keeping this last jedi thing vague, so people will be surprised.

Like everyone expected Luke to train Rey but he didnt.

He also says that Kylo is actually the one who fights and acts like a jedi not Rey.
He never uses the dark side in fights while Rey always does and she is always more aggressive than him.

I am starting to see his point.

I am 90% sure Kylo will embrace the light at the end.
There are hints everywhere for it in both movies.

10% not , bcoz i like watching him do crazy stuff and trying to act all evil.

 

I guess the fact that she stole the Jedi texts and stowed them away from the falcon, the fact that Luke says he's not the last Jedi when the camera switches to the shot of Rey using the Force to lift rocks and save her friends. I see that as Rey accepting that she is the last hope for the Jedi and everyone else can follow her example, including Ben.

 

Maybe you are right.
I completely understand your point.

Its just they keep implying through their dialogue that

Kylo/Ben is the "hope" of the galaxy and the jedi order.

"If skywalker returns, the new jedi will rise."

"Skywalker lives. The 'seed' of the jedi order lives. As long as it does, Hope lives in the galaxy."

In both above even though about Luke, they focused on Kylo's face. They could say Luke Skywalker but no, they went with only skywalker which Kylo/Ben is too. So.

"Ben Solo is our last hope".

"Hope is like the SUN. If you only believe in it when you can see it, you will never make it through the night."
I mean sun=son, really.

They NEVER use "hope" in terms of any other character not Rey, Finn, Poe and they are the heroes.

They NEVER say Rey is the hope or savior of the galaxy or the jedi order for that matter.

They said Luke and Anakin were the hope in like every movie.

Why not say that about Rey? She IS the hero.
Why leave it to interpretation?

Its weird to me.
And it paints a certain picture to the audience.

Though i would like Rey to build a new order of the jedi.

Its just they didnt make Rey's motivations and wishes clear.

I hope i explained my POV better.

This whole thing feels really really strange to me.

 

Well, Rey is the main protagonist of the story and the one who inspires and rekindles Luke Skywalker's belief in the importance of the Jedi. Rey is the one who carries that hope when both Ben and Luke want the Jedi to end, so that's why I believe it has to start with Rey.
But I also agree that Ben Solo represents a kind of hope as well, as he's been described in canon as the focal point of the light and dark and he and Rey have been referred to as two halves of the dark and the light (representing balance, essentially). They've definitely left breadcrumbs scattered throughout TLJ for that kind of reveal.

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@Star war I've noticed that some fans are unsure of her part in the story and I think it's mostly due to the writers unusual approach. There are some fans who thinks Ben's the villain protagonist of the story and she's the hero antagonist, meaning she's speficially a foil to him. Some thinks it's the other way around, that Ben's a foil to her. I'm somewhere in the middle, I do think they're both equally in focus and important to the story and that will continue in IX. I believe that Ben's a slightly better developed character (depth and growth), so I can sort of understand where you're coming from. I do think they are both the hope of the galaxy though.

 

He's never been a Jedi, nor a Sith.

Luke was the last Jedi, TLJ was his story, his ark.
He knows that there will be something else beyond himself but different, acknowledging the transformation
Rey is no jedi but part of that transformation and, do not forget, he is talking to Ben at the moment.
We see there are other Force sensitive kids in the Universe.
Luke knows it.

Ben and Rey are the hope for a new start (Prime Jedi or grey Jedi, back to the origin)

Look at Snoke's reproach (and lightning) to Kylo Ren in TLJ:
“Skywalker lives. The seed of the Jedi Order lives. And as long as it does, hope lives in the galaxy.”
The camera switches to Ben at the precise moment when Snoke says “the seed” and when Snoke says “hope (lives in the galaxy)” Ben literally pops back into frame.

I don't think it was done accidentally by R. Johnson.
She has the books (tradition, the knowledge), he carries "the seed" (the Skywalker seeds literally but also the "seed of hope")
They have all that they need.

 

@Dragon Jedi Yes, I agree. That's what I believe as well.

 

The last Jedi is explicitly plural in any language other than English.
Italian "Gli ultimi Jedi"
French "Les derniers Jedi"

 

German "Die letzten Jedi" - also plural

But R. Johnson himself confirmed it was meant as singular (someone in this forume said so)

 

WOW, really? That's very interesting. And confusing too. Do you have the quote? I'm wondering how he justified the wrong translations.

 

Maybe they should fire Yoda and hire Rey to help them translating things.
Just a finding from the recent Solo teaser

The germans will understand what I mean.
I do not agree a lot with RJ but since today I believe he is right that Last Jedi is singular and anything else is a translation error

 

Rian said that TLJ was Luke but that the name evolves in the movie. Which is true. He's the last Jedi until the end when he says "I won't be the Last Jedi" and the scene cuts to Rey lifting rocks. So both singular and plural are right. Singular cause there's never more than 1 Last Jedi at the same time (Rey's the last after Luke) and plural because it's two people who acquire the title in the movie.

 

Except in the Prequels

So let's say that it's Luke, who represents the Old Jedi Tradition as we know it in the PT and OT.
Then it will be Rey's generation, the back-to-the-roots Jedi.

 

This is so great! We talk a lot about Reylo and P&P (and that video is going to be released after this one I think) but this analysis is brilliant:



I've checked the video for content before embedding - all TLJ images used have already been officially released and there's no bad language or NSFW. This is their main YT site:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLlbPGNQ9_GMfOMxAhUm9Hg

 

I don't understand the point of continuing a flawed Jedi tradition, it has to be something new. So in a way Luke was the last Jedi of old, as we know it. Ben and Rey will be something new.

 

Yes they did. Rey repeatedly sought to be trained, and when she left, she took the ancient Jedi texts. Why would she do that if she didn't want to be a Jedi.

Nopeity nope nope. When Luke says he is not the Last Jedi, the film cuts to Rey. Case closed.

He never uses the Dark Side? What movie did he watch?

I think there is a good chance he is partially or wholly redeemed by the end of IX. But Rey will be the center of the story.

I'd argue it started with Qui-Gonn. And he guided Yoda to the Force priestesses and he learned much of what he passed on to Luke. Luke had a set-back, but he has much more knowledge than the vast majority of the PT era Jedi. Luke pulled it together at the end to become what he was destined to be (and may yet be seen as that more), and Rey will be the ultimate synthesis of all that knowledge, IMO.

 

Is anyone else annoyed by the assumption that "balance" means: yeah, we need murderous genocidal maniacs to balance out the goodie-goodies in the Galaxy, we need something in the middle?

 

I don’t know....I guess you should take it up with George Lucas and the people involved in Star Wars storytelling.....the same people who decided Darth Vader would bring balance to the Force.

 

Agreed, GL and current LF powers that be decided this course of the story and we are just reading the story the way they envisioned it.

 

I wouldn’t say *that*...

I think the most concrete statement re what will restore “balance” is the return of the Jedi. (“Without the Jedi, there can be no balance.”) Light, to counter the darkness (creating, well, a “tension,” as Luke put it).

Nothing wrong with goody-goodys Didn’t get the sense the narrative saw anything wrong with them, either. It’s just that goody-goodys have to be able to cope with the darkness that lies within all of us.

 

Rey and Kylo have literally been described as two halves of a whole, of light and dark, and the conflict will continue as long as they are at odds with each other. So I guess what can be inferred from that is that their relationship is a metaphor for the state of the Force, which must be balanced in order to regain peace in the galaxy.

 

And this is where we as fans need to be careful. The prequels are a retcon, information supplied by them about Anakin being a child of prophecy came long AFTER the OT was released. Originally Anakin was just a very talented Jedi who fell into darkness. The details were fleshed out by Lucas years later. What TLJ did was smash a lot of expectations about how things would go. Rey is not a child of destiny and bloodline doesn't determine potential or choice. Kylo Ren is not Vader 2.0, he's surpassed his grandfather in some ways, but has twice now reject redemption once from a family member and once from a fledgling force user willing to give him a second chance based on a vision. Then there's the fact that each director has so much freedom with these tales.

Looking at how Kylo Ren ends the film, he could go either way. It's possible he'll find some form of redemption...but it's just as possible that he will continue on his dark path. That doesn't mean he'll become the Emperor 2.0...but likely something new. Kylo Ren WANTS to rule and he WANTS the past to die. Luke's mistake gave Kylo plenty of anger and conflict to fuel his power but at the end of the day his goal is domination. He uses Rey to get what he wants, which is the death of Snoke and control of the First Order. Sure he might view her favorably...but that didn't stop him from trying to shoot her down...or declaring he would destroy her when talking to Luke. It's also worth noting that Kylo Ren doesn't take rejection or abandonment well...and Rey's final act...closing the door in his face could be easily interpreted by him as such.

Rey, for her part, saw a chance to end the threat of the First Order and save a fallen person...just like the legend of Luke she so believed in. She dosen't understand Kylo, and that is made abundantly clear after the battle in Snoke's throne room. She thought she'd done it, saved the day and turned Ben from darkness just like her hero Luke...right up until Kylo starts talking about how the past needs to die...and she slowly realizes all she's accomplished is to trade one tyrant for another. Kylo fails her in this moment, showing what he truly craves is power and freedom from the past. It's why his words to her, telling her to join him...almost demanding it, fall on deaf ears. In this moment we see who they both really are, Rey is a good person who ultimately wants to help others, and Kylo is ultimately selfish, caring only about his goals and needs.

Rian Johnson also stated that Rey's background is subject to change.

I don't believe that will happen, but it's worth pointing out since JJ Abrams (who is writing the finale) called Kylo Ren a religious fanatic during the run up to TFA. Having the hero and villain be 'Not so different' isn't always a positive thing. Sometimes the hero is slipping more and more towards villainy and that is why they are so much alike. In Rey's case, she has a good reason for her obsession with family and disillusionment with Luke...but it makes her Like Kylo Ren which is clear when she's yelling and screaming at the guards during the Throne room fight scene. At the films end Luke gives her a fantastic example of what she should aim for, he's calm, collected and reasonable, willing to accept his own mistakes and past failures. Kylo is screaming and frothing at the mouth as he swings ineffectively at shadows from his past that can do him no harm. Now that she's seen the two paths...felt Luke serenity when he passed on she could become less and less like Kylo Ren...especially if she did in fact shut the door between them that was opened in TFA.

 

My understanding of balance is kind of what Rey was envisioning on the island through the Force--the state of nature. Things are born and grow (light), they begin to decline and then die and decay (dark), which gives way to new life. There is warmth and peace (such as animals caring for their young), and violence (such as predation). All of it is in this stable cycle of light to dark and dark to light, on and on. Darksiders like Sidious, Snoke, Vader and Kylo actually disrupt the balance because they try to create a galaxy in which the dark side suppresses the light. Hence Snoke's goal is to snuff out hope. Snoke and Sidious both wanted to suppress the light and greatly diminish it. They strive to unbalance the Force, IOW.

Because there will always be Force-sensitives who are incredibly powerful, and there will always be some Force-sensitives that fall to the dark side, there will always be some darksiders who try to do what Snoke and Sidious tried to do. There will always also be people using the Force to take advantage of others. The purpose of the Jedi isn't really to promote the light, IMO, but to maintain the balance. I don't think they should be law enforcement trying to get rid of all dark side Force users. But they should be identifying where imbalance is occurring and fix it. They are the defense against the Snokes, Sidiouses, Vaders and Kylos of the galaxy. Qui-gon seems to be the closest example of this sort of Jedi.

 

definitely. The fact that they chose a young woman and a young man, who are attracted to each other, to represent the state or sides of the Force indicates moving towards co-existence and complementing rather than one destroying the other. It isn't Luke/Vader situation where young supplements the old or light supplements dark. Too much of either is not good, hence that beautiful metaphor in TFA where she comes from a planet with too much light that renders it barren (scorched) and he comes from a planet/base with too much darkness that renders it barren (frozen). And then they meet in the fertile, lush Takodana forest which is full of both dark and light so that vegetation blooms instead of being scorched or frozen. You have a feeling that the world started to bloom because two of them met and that's emphasized by images of virility (his saber) and promise of fertility (bridal carry):