A/V SOLO: A Star Wars Story (untagged spoilers allowed)

Except it wasn't that way in the old EU. Han told Chewie many times (as early as the Hutt Gambit) that he's not holding Chewie to any life debt and basically to scram. Even as their friendship deepened, Han told Chewie he can go home to Malla or whatever but Chewie always stuck around.

Yes Chewie always used the life debt line in the EU. But it was blatantly obvious to anyone (and I think even the writers' intention) that Chewie was just using the life debt as an excuse (especially when Han outright told him he's not invoking a life debt). Chewie genuinely loved Han and tried to help him as much as he can, especially in the beginning when Han's life and career was destroyed due to freeing him from slavery.

The saddest part of the whole EU's take on it was that, in the Chewbacca NJO comic, Han broke down in tears when he realized he never told Chewie he loved him and always took him for granted until the Vong killed him. Contrast that with new canon, where Chewie walks by Leia without a second glance and Leia runs to hug Rey after Han Solo has been killed.

 

Given that Jar Jar's storyline in The Phantom Menace is very much a tribute to Gunga Din, that makes sense. He's the "pathetic life form" whose "primitive" ways are exploited by the people around him, but when the Queen finally listens to him, together they can save the day. (Unlike Gunga Din, he didn't have to die to demonstrate his worth.)

With Chewie, it has always been a meaningless addition to his story. It doesn't add anything to what we see between Han and Chewie on screen, it doesn't pay off narratively, if anything it subtracts from the genuine friendship between these two (which this movie only strengthened). Especially since this movie positions Han & Chewie as The Defiant Ones for their escape sequence? A welcome upgrade.

 

Something Abrams has - repeatedly and publicly - acknowledged as an error, and is not to be interpreted as some sort of "new canon bad!!!!" reinterpretation of Chewie's relationship with Han and Leia.

I loved the Han and Chewie friendship this film presented, but as far as the life debt and its place in their relationship goes, I actually thought the appropriately-titled Aftermath: Life Debt did pay it off in a very sweet way - with Han finally acknowledging that he owes more of a life debt to Chewie than Chewie ever did to him (along with Han straight-up telling Chewie he loves him, something that apparently never got to happen in Legends).

 

It's not just abrams error but kasdans, and at least abrams acknowledges it. But if theres a whole team working on this and something like this gets by, it's reasonable to wonder if the team itself is in the right direction.

It's easy to let krennic be the fall guy for the death star exhaust port, but it's clear the project was flawed from the start.


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But it's also something that doesn't matter. Chewie's thread is that he's looking after Finn -- he carries him into the Falcon and is following him into the Resistance base -- whereas Leia and Rey need to have their Forceful connection established to lead up to Ahch-To. So in terms of the storytelling (which is the thing the team is actually working on) it makes sense.

 

^Looks like Chewie is in old EU-mode at the end of TFA.

"HOOMAN BANDAGE ARM, OWE HIM LIFE DEBT **** HUGS RIGHT NOW"

 

Not sure how you're reaching the conclusion that it was Kasdan's error too, but sure, why not. Blame anyone you want. The point is that the moment was never intended to represent canon suddenly redefining Chewie's relationship to the Solo family (especially so given that we saw a warm moment between Chewie and Leia earlier in that very same movie).

 

Agreed. Movie pacing wise, the focus needed to be on Leia and Rey. Lore wise a hug first would’ve been great and more fitting. Abrams acknowledged this but ultimately was focused on the main plot.

 

Or Chewbacca's just a good guy with a soft spot for ex-Imperials that risk it all to save others.

 

Hes credited on the screenplay and didnt write it in...? How id it a stretch???

Its more absurd to say a scriptwriter has no hand whatsoever in a script hes credited for.

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So, I dug out the screenplay online and this is what that particular passage says:

So yeah, it's clear to me that Kasdan destroyed all of Star Wars right there. He definitely intended to retcon the friendship between Leia and Chewie out of existence, and wasn't just being a good writer by focusing on the emotional beats relevant to the protagonist.

 

I'm not saying it was intentional, but it's a clear blind spot on the character thought process in the writing. And that's fine, but it's still a blind spot.

"definitely intended to retcon the friendship between Leia and Chewie out of existence" are your words not mine. I'm saying the writers could have done better. You then write your own words that 7 tried to retcon the friendship between Leia and Chewie out of existence, trying to frame them as my words, when they're not.

Here's what I actually said: "Contrast that with new canon, where Chewie walks by Leia without a second glance and Leia runs to hug Rey after Han Solo has been killed."

Every word in that sentence was true. I said nothing about Kasdan trying to "retcon the friendship between Leia and Chewie out of existence". What I actually said was: "It's not just abrams error but kasdans, and at least abrams acknowledges it. " Kasdan is part of the writing team. He had a slight slip up in the writing, that's what I'm saying.

 

Right, this never even blipped for me because Chewie is...busy.

 

LOL I was in the process of posting that segment of the script myself.

The scene has been discussed at great length; Abrams is on record as taking personal responsibility for not realizing that in the midst of insuring that the emotional beat between Leia and Rey was hit, he missed one that perhaps should have happened between Leia and Chewie. The point is still that the new canon (via TFA) did not intentionally negate Chewie's decades-long relationship with the Solo family.

 

I never said it was intentional. The result ended up being what it is.

Palpatine, Vader, Tarkin, and Krennic didn't intend for an exhaust port to blow up the Death Star either. If my friend died on the Death Star, and the Empire told me they never intended for that exhaust port to be there, it's not going to make me feel any better.

Back to the Solo movie, I wonder if digital download sales and blu-ray will make up for some of the box office disappointment: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/h...t-first-loss-disneys-star-wars-empire-1116927 and https://qz.com/1297406/solo-could-be-disneys-first-star-wars-film-to-lose-money/

 

Your asking us to contrast the two portrayals implies volumes, as does your continually comparing it to people dying. Like, we are not in debate club, we are having a conversation, your comments are part of a continual back and forth, like, you can quote parts of what you said, but you made the comparison in the first place. 'This is how we know that Chewie's relationship with Han was good in the old EU even when they invoked the Life Debt,' is a paraphrase of what the rest of your post says, so then when you say "compare this to" you are make a direct inference about the thing being compared! The fact that I made use of hyperbole doesn't change the way you made your argument; what was the comparison for if NOT to say that Chewie and Leia's canon relationship is bad compared to Chewie and Han's in Legends?

 

My comparison isn't to say that it's actually bad, but that it's not being portrayed correctly. In an extreme example, like a rich actor's agent telling him to where homeless type clothing out in the open. It doesn't change the fact that the actor is rich, but everyone who saw him would think he was poor.

The movie didn't change the "reality" of Leia's and Chewie's relationship (however that's defined for a fictional universe), but it gave off the wrong impression, the way a clueless agent telling the actor to wear homeless clothing gives off the wrong impression of his financial status. And I'm not saying it's intentional, but the result is what it is.

I contrasted it to old canon in that we got full fledged reactions on the death of a SW family member (Chewie)--not just from the new characters (Anakin Solo), but the old as well. In new canon, the reaction is solely on the new characters reacting (Rey and Finn crying) and not the old ones. I'm not saying it's intentional, but I think it's just a major slip-up in the whole direction of focusing so much on the new they forgot the old--that's why I wonder Kasdan or Abrams or whoever never even thought to write in something about the older characters' reactions.

 

We saw Chewie react almost immediately to Han's death, he cried out and shot Kylo. We saw Leia sense it and feel sad, as soon as it happened. We saw the old characters react.

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That's true. I guess then I was hoping for a more funeral thing. I understand these things are cut in movies, but maybe I've been spoiled by extended editions in Tolkien's movies (Thorin's funeral).

The same criticism applies to ANH when Luke and Leia get over the deaths of their families (her planet for the latter) too quickly. The thing was there we had nothing to compare this against, where now we have an entire library of books to compare the new movies against, so I admit new canon has a disadvantage at that that might not be fair.

 

Well, except for the part where Leia senses Han's death, or where Chewie howls in grief and shoots Han's murderer, or where Leia embraces her ex's new "foster daughter" ("She embraces Rey. A mother's embrace."), or the part immediately after where (again, from the script) "Chewbacca sits quietly, as do many in the base, mourning their losses."

And that's all in the movie where the death took place. As opposed to your example where they had to come back after and create a supplementary comic to address these things. Maybe such a comic will come for Han's death as well, maybe not, but you're comparing a primary text to a supplementary one.

 

Star Wars doesn't show funerals, really, besides Qui-Gon, I mean. Did Luke even bury his aunt and uncle or did he leave their smoking skeletons in front of the house?

And, like, when my best friend died back in high school, I got enough hugs to last me a lifetime, but the hardest one, the one I put off for probably too long was his mother. Because that was when I knew it would be real. And it sucked. I spent days putting on a strong face and being there for other people. And as I waited near the end of the line at the visitation so it could be as private as possible I knew I was going to break, and I did. I fully understand why Leia and Chewie wouldn't want to hug it out in front of everyone.

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I still think the standalone films will nail it eventually in BO, in general though film was brilliant, just make sure that the standalones consist of those who are made for them. For example, Yoda.. people will pay to see his past for sure.

 

I'm not sure that "origin" movies are the best idea. What we get is then a checklist of everything we know about said character crammed into 2 hours. It doesn't feel natural because no real person can have all the important stuff in their life crammed into 2 hours.

Standalone movies should focus on battles or events, like Rogue One. I feel "Origin" movies are the wrong way to go honestly--they should save those for tv series or novels where it feels more organic.

 

We have a whole genre of biographical films that do just that all the time, and win all the awards. Gandhi. Ray. Frida. Ché. A Beautiful Mind. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. A Man For All Seasons. And like, all of Shakespeare's histories.

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Fair enough

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