ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

An issue with Rey is that faith and hope are possibly weaknesses of her character. Her belief her parents would return kept her going, so that is great, but it also kept her on Jakku. And her coping mechanism of waiting isn't something that might be magically cured just because she stopped doing that with her parents.

Often IME coping mechanisms are applied over and over, in new situations too, and it often takes seeing the pattern on repeat to completely break free of the mechanism. Each time the pattern is repeated and backfires it seems to become more painful.

And I could easily see faith/hope regarding her family (which is lost) transferred to another family.

So Rey is in a way not as reliable of a protagonist. And depending on how much focus is put into her character as a victim of early age trauma, she could believably go quite left field.

 

I have this funny feeling that Kylo will ask Rey to kill him: "Just do it. Don't be afraid".
And it won't be in self-defence. He'll make himself vulnerable, just like Han did, and expose his neck (or chest, it depends) for her blow.

 

Well that would be remarkable indeed! From that galaxy far far away to a planet of another galaxy. And, since I am Italian, I may even drop by to say hello and teach some basics Italian.

Nope. My ideal ending for this trilogy would be to see them both possibly on the same planet (I thought Takodana would do), with Kylo running the "Han Solo Resort for Retired Smugglers and Gamblers" to honour his father's memory and Rey running the "Skywalker Academy for the New Reformed Jedi Order", honoring the Skywalker legacy.

Han was meant to die in TESB. It was George Lucas's will that he lived because his task ended when Leia conceived Ben. As far as we know from the EU and canon stories, and as much as I love his character (thanks to Ford's passionate portrait of him) his storyline was pretty much at the end of the line when Leia sent Ben to Luke. After Endor, his major contribution to the Star Wars canon universe was to marry Leia and give her a son. That's it folks.
And do not bully me for that, I did not write his story.

We may not like it and, personally, it took me 2 years to watch TFA. Friends of mine told me that Han was going to die in the movie and I did not want to see the firm when it came out in 2015. I waited until last December, when the theatre in my town showed both films for the TLJ premiere. Then I was ready to understand and accept Han's fate as part of the story this trilogy was telling.

 

I like your comment here. Really. It is very much in line with my own thoughts.
Do you feel like the dichotomy Kylo Ren / Ben Solo as one of the points where this ST may end killing off Kylo Ren but saving Ben Solo instead? We had a debate pages ago of a personality split similar to Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. Although I do not see a 1:1 match here with Stevenson's work, I do see that keeping somehow Ben Solo's personalities separate may serve to bring Ben Solo justice.
Kylo Ren must pay for his crimes, and it will cost his dearly. I am sure of it.
But who's going to atone for Ben Solo? Snoke alone?

Rey is one half of the protagonist. Ben is the other half.
This trilogy is about the Force searching its balance and you really need at least two elements in order to balance anything. It is the very essence of the term.

I too want Ben Solo to survive the trilogy and find a measure of peace. Find pleasure in simple things and honor his legacy's memory far away from the spotlights. And I want him reconnected with his humanity.

 

So Ben Solo's REAL and ULTIMATE enemy is.....Kylo Ren.

Sounds interesting. Not sure if there's any way they can actually show that. I think the same thing can be said about Anakin's true enemy being Vader. By killing Palpatine, Anakin was shown to destroy Vader and thus, in the netherworld, became Anakin again. Who does Ben Solo have to destroy that would symbolically destroy Kylo Ren now that Snoke is gone? The Knights of Ren? That's a tricky one.

Also, I am not sure if they can accomplish this and have Ben Solo live on in any true physical capacity.Society doesn't just let murderers run free because they "killed" their alter-ego. They at least spend the rest of their lives locked up in a facility. In this day and age of so many mass murderers running around, I don't think there is much tolerance for them running free.

It's a neat concept for sure, but I am not sure how they would effectively execute it on film having Ben live on in the physical world. I still think Ben has to die and become a ghost.

 

In reality it is extremely difficult to find a real personality split. I think it is a serious mental illness that goes back to schizophrenia. Those are usually closed into clinic, according to the severity of the case.
Here we have a conscious split, an alter ego created by an abused boy to protect himself from further abuse. The dichotomy is at physical, more than psychological level: layers and layers of fabric to protect the skin of the body, a mask to hide true feelings and emotions, a voice modulator to intimidate the enemy and wannabe evil deeds to emulate THE villain model he chose only to cry for his crimes behind the mask. That's Kylo Ren.
Ben Solo is out there between the Force connections with Rey, the sensitive, compassionate boy who cannot hold his tears for a fellow lonely soul, no mask, no gloves, no pretense, no fabric either.
Still, Ben Solo is very much aware of Kylo Ren and vice-versa. And, unlike Dr. Jeckyll with Mr. Hyde, whatever remains of Ben Solo is very well able to control Kylo Ren's actions. Apparently. I am speculating that Snoke, being inside Kylo's head for ages now, somehow influenced (like a form of mental condition) Kylo's darkes deeds. I do not know if this is the path JJ will follow. I hope not, it would be a disservice to Ben Solo, I feel. But it is a possibility.

Yes and no. Darth vader's mask was more a creation of Palpatine to save Anakin's body. Behind the mask and the full armor, there was a seriously maimed Anakin who didn't even have lungs left to breath.
I have always wondered if this is what Anakin wanted. Think of the moment in ROTS when the mask finally drops forever on Anakin's face... is this what he wanted? What does he regret, what would he do differently?
From what we do know from Snoke monologue from the Fry novelization, Ben Solo himself created Kylo Ren in order to escape being Ben Solo. To kill him metaphorically.

Not all murderers are locked up in a facility. I made the examples so many times that where I was born, a democratic land with a government elected by the people, mafia killers are granted full amnesty and witness protection program in change of insider information.
Killers of any kind, if in posses of vital information for the benefit of the nation, are pardoned or get a leniency.
War crimes are even less punished, since they are different from "crimes against peace" and "crimes done during an actual war". And the latter are strictly linked to the legality of the war and the winner of the conflict (victor's justice). And even if soldiers or officers are found guilty by an international committee, they hardly get a harsh sentence if they could demonstrate they were following orders. So war crimes are, unfortunately, "more justified" than random crimes and treated accordingly, and all conventions be damned.
But, since this is Star Wars and not the real world, it may go differently.

I found telling that at the San Diego Comic Con these past weeks, Star Wars fans held a legal court-martial for Poe Dameron to answer for his crimes. If not only the FO but also the Resistance were called to answer for war crimes, we may have surprises.

 

It's called Dissociative Identity Disorder. Not the same thing as schizophrenia.

 

My overall point is that Kylo was once a normal human being vs born a psychopath.

 

Aaaand with that, congratulations on being the very first person to go on Ava G.'s ignore list.

 

I thought so. Thank you for the clarification.

 

Star Wars doesn’t get into mental health at all. Among Force users it’s mostly portrayed as becoming a vessel of good or evil via connections & whispers fromthe Light or dark side for the Force users and the impact that has on identity based on the power of the Light & Dark & the choices made.

 

I’ll go one step farther, it could be a situation where striking him down would be the act to send her into darkness and, like his father, he takes her weapon knowing it’s a 50/50 that she’ll run him through and he still takes the chance because he still senses the light and is willing to take that chance just like Han did. I could definitely see this as an Embrace the Solo in you moment.

And Rey chooses light. That would be a very powerful test for the hero as well. Let her have complete agency to choose light or darkness in the choice of death or mercy. Do you kill evil or do you save what you love?

 

Is it really necessary to broadcast when you ignore someone?

 

That's even better than what I have imagined.
Yes, he has to reclaim his name by the end of IX.

You have an avid immagination, Birkendoc!

 

So if he’s going to reclaim his name, let him do the most quintessential Solo thing in the process, an act that comes from compassion and understanding and does not require the Force at all. Have him make a very active choice to use his heart, not any supernatural powers. That’s what I want to see.

 

Yes, me too.
Let him show the very core of that Solo heart of his.

There were talks of Kylo renouncing his Force powers as form of atonement, in fact.

 

I don’t think they’d go for something quite that dark. Plus it doesn’t make any sense. Why would he ask Rey to kill him? If he wants to die he can kill himself.

 

If he’s unarmed and she is, what the hell did she have to lose. He knows she could kill him in that situation.

 

I reread and realized I misinterpreted. However we’ve seen Vader nearly kill someone with just the Force.

 

@sls062286 you missed the other part of my post as well.

I proposed a situation where he’s actively choosing to not use the Force but rather choosing his heart. The Force has always been a source of entitlement for him in the films.

What if, in this scenario, he’s actively choosing to act more like his father and act from the heart and actively eschewing the Force.

 

No, it isn’t.

Though I didn’t think “Kylo isn’t a psychopath” was a controversial and/or insulting statement...

 

From fascist dictator to running a resort in honor of the guy i killed.

Fascinating.

 

How is Rey supposed to know or trust that? After proving himself untrustworthy multiple times there’s going to come a point where believing what he says is just going to be ridiculous. His father trusted him, ended up dead. Snoke trusted him, ended up dead, she trusted him with once already, ended up with Luke dead and a threat against herself and everything she cares about. Seems like it’s nearly guaranteed that trusting Kylo Ren is likely to bite anyone in the butt. No matter what side they are on.

 

First of all he is an IMPERIALISTIC dictator. Not fascist. Google it to see the difference, because there is.

Secondly, I agree with you completely that in the context of a redemption path, all his dues paid, it is a fascinating possibility, yes.

 

In a comedy yes. “Sorry I killed you dad, here’s a A casino n your name, is it all better now?” It actually would seem more of a passive aggressive move to me. To me either helping lead some kind of democratic movement in honor of his mother or being a traveling rogue would be the best end for him if he has to stay alive.