ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

In fairy tales and Marvel comics, too. In Law & Order probably not.
Pick your preference.

 

For me, SW is a fairy tale/sci-fi, so anything compared to realistic law and order don't mix. I do find it funny though at one of the conventions last year, a fake court with a real judge felt sorry for Ben and this year Poe was condemned for his actions lol

 

In a saga where a child murdering, wife choking, backstabbing, genocidal, abusive father ends up in the same Force heaven as Obi-Wan & Yoda — who devoted their lives to the Light — after thinking long and hard about saving his son from a torturous death via electrocution or killing the devil who was doing that... It wouldn’t entirely surprise me.

Childhood nostalgia protects concepts we grew up with from being viewed the same way we do new offerings as adults a lot of the time but Lucas’ first trilogy presented and supported the kind of last minute Christian notion of death row penance & forgiveness that rubs a lot of death penalty advocates & atheists the wrong way & has them rolling their eyes because they beleive killers shouldn’t make it to heaven or shouldn’t have that relief that heaven awaits after causing such pain & misery for crimes.

This concept of force forgiveness is as much a part of Star Wars as anything though... A single act near the end changed everything for Anakin after DECADES OF EVIL.

 

Absolutely. George Lucas himself said more than once that Star Wars is foremost a fairy tale in space. JJ confirmed that. No one, either from Disney, not LFL ever mentioned Star Wars as tale of law and justice.
It doesn't even qualify as sci-fi because there are no real efforts to show a credible futuristic science behind it. It is really a fairy tale in space.

 

I don’t know if a redeemed (alive) Ben Solo *can* “pay all his dues” (as in, completely atone). Perhaps anyone in SW can be redeemed; not everyone can make up for all the harm they’ve done, however.

Which doesn’t mean I think he’d have to die after being redeemed. But if he lives I don’t think anything would put him in a position where he could live Happily Ever After. I think he can eventually find inner peace, and a way to give back to society (after a long period of healing), but I think it will be alone (initislly) or with the aid of FGs. Solitary exile, with the possibility of non-Saga Ben Solo stories in the future, which could introduce new characters into the GFFA.

 

To me, Kylo is the damsel in distress figuratively speaking, while Rey is the big hero. He's cursed with a darkness, but is also royalty and the chosen hero is the one to end the curse on his family, freeing everyone from years of darkness and despair, and bringing hope to the galaxy.

 

When you can move from this on screen:





To being welcomed into Force heaven with saints who’ve devoted their entire lives to the Light:





Anything is possible for Ben Solo.

 

Never noticed Han looking at Luke before. Huh... you see something new every time.

 

A dictator is a dictator no matter which way you try to explain it.

And also how exactly could Kylo pay off his dues because the hundreds maybe thousands of people he killed are not coming back to life.

 

Han's probably like, "what in the heck is he doing over there staring off into the darkness?"

 

Now I'm seeing an ending like that with Rey and Ben.

 

Except that a “damsel in distress” tends to be an innocent who lacks agency while Kylo is neither. I see no evidence that the narrative is depicting Kylo as a slave to some outwardly-imposed power who has no control over his own destiny and who thus cannot be held morally accountable.

If there’s a “curse” that can be “broken,” I think it’s on the dark side itself.

And didn’t Luke’s sacrifice bring hope to the galaxy? Wasn’t the point of the broomboi scene to demonstrate that?

 

Vader also DIED. Apparently, super Kylo fans don't want him to die.

Also, just because Vader did one good deed doesn't mean he was loved by everyone in the galaxy. The only person who truly forgave him was Luke. Leia still hates his guts. That's canon.

 

What I want to know is what the little kid Jedi and all the other great Jedi thought when Anakin got into Force heaven.

IS THAT ANAKIN IN FORCE HEAVEN NOW? I THOUGHT WE WERE FREE OF THIS GUY FOREVER HERE!? EVERYONE HIDE!

 

It would depend on when the curse breaks. Will Ben return or was he always Kylo? Will the curse claim one last victim? Will Rey stop the cycle and will Ben help her by fighting it like Luke or will he fall like Vader and die in her arms?

Luke inspired hope, but it's obvious he expects Rey to carry on where he left off and become the new hope.

 

Vader got to become more powerful than you can imagine the same way the most decent and light-serving Jedi do, and live forever with former friends and undo all of his scarring and appear how he always wanted for the rest of time. Even Kenobi & Yoda welcomed him back.

Dying & escaping that life support suit and old age was hardly punishment for him.

If Star Wars didn’t punish him and instead freed him from the pain and suffering of that life support suit and his disabilities & didn’t keep him out of Force heaven where he gets to live forever at his best, or have Obi-Wan, Luke or Yoda shun him... it’s not that hard to see a path where Ben Solo also gets forgiven more than a lot of punishment fans would like. He’s been on the Dark Side path for like 7 years so far compared to the 20 or so for Anakin.

 

True.
But calling someone "fascist dictator" sounds quite different than "imperialistic dictator", don't you think?
I think you do, like all those who consistently keep calling "fascist" a regime which is not.
The emphasis is not on "dictator", it's on "fascist" IMHO.

 

Also just look at that evil smirk on his face! It's like he's still evil!

 

Even throwing aside law entirely, Ben running a casino in "honor" of Han is a ludicrous idea that doesn't honor either character. It's ludicrous to the point of flippant disrespect.

You know what Han would really want for/from Ben? He'd want Ben to become the best, happiest version of himself. That would be the greatest gift Ben could give him.

Han would probably want to see Ben embrace the light inside him and accept his Jedi destiny in some manner, even if Han cannot feel the Force or identify with that destiny. There's a bit of serendipity in it in that, by committing himself to selfless service to the greater good, Kylo would be honoring Han's legacy, while doing his own thing at the same time.

I wdon't think Ben would become a Jedi Knight errant, but more like a recovering dark sider who passes his cautionary tale on to the next generation of Jedi. More teacher and example than doer.

 

The Anakin/Hayden FG scene is very moving to me. A nice touch is when he looks down, as if ashamed, and then looks back at Luke.

 

Well Han experienced the Force to a small extent once.

 

Because everything in that type of scenario is a leap of faith. He’s hopeful she won’t strike him down. She is hopeful he won’t use the Force. And honestly if she holds the high ground, just as she did the duel in TFA, it doesn’t matter, because she would have that power over him.

I was phrasing this in terms of a redemption arc and reaching out to Rey as she face her biggest dark side temptation—striking him down in anger. No subterfuge here. Strip the Kylo Ten facade away and offer just heart like his father would. There is part me convinced that if he is going to relinquish the darkness, it will be in an act that he eschews the Force.

This is one type of scenario. Because a blind leap of faith without the force serving as an equalizer or crutch would tell me he is earnest in his commitment to change.

 

That's part of the Jedi religion and philosophy but that doesn't mean everyone else in the galaxy follows that same way of thinking.

So what you're saying is dying is one way Kylo can find peace and forgiveness. If so, I totally agree with you.