ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

We had Snoke who played that part wonderfully. He died one movie before the end.
Who says that we absolutely need a villain in Ep. IX? The ST made it clear that it looked back but subverted quite a lot of patterns.
Your theory makes absolutely sense to me and is in line with the "new trends" in the ST.

But someone will have to pay for the genoside of the Hosnian System.
Hux is a good candidate



A dangerous dog beaten once too many into submission.
And in my country they say that if you kick a rabid cur, it may some day bite you.
Remember Peter Pettigrew.

 

Meet Hux, the final Big Bad of the Skywalker saga

 

I remember Peter Pettigrew.

He wasn’t the Big Bad.

Hux as ambition. And...that’s about it. Thrawn was a very effective non-FS major baddie becausr what he lacked in magic powers he made up for in almost preternatural skill and intelligence. Hux has neither.

Additionally, as has been pointed out many times before, TLJ rendered Hux...really not intimidating as a character and personality. While there are aspects of Kylo’s depiction which have undermined him as a “scary” villain, a fulldark Kylo in 9 would be a more believable and menacing progression than Hux transforming back into a character who really feels threatening.

I still expect Snoke to return in some form as the Big Bad, but I expect Kylo to have that role for the first part of 9.

 

I don’t really feel you’ve addressed my point and I’m not at all sure what your point is. Are you trying to argue that Hux will be portrayed as the ultimate bad guy to wrap up the Skywalker Saga? Um. Sure.

You realize we have a lot of heroes, right? We need a force using villain. That’s what there’s a shortage of. Besides Kylo, of course.

I love DG based on his whole resume, but this made me lol. It also makes me bummed. What a waste of a brilliant actor.

 

I thought Hux was a good villain in TFA. But they made him a comic relief buffoon in TLJ. I think JJ will restore him to proper villain status.

 

No, he wasn't, but he delivered Harry's parents to Voldemort putting in motion all the events of the saga we know.
Quite a damage for a rabid cur.

Do we need a Big Bad in ep. IX?

 

Crookshanks the rabid Sith cat.

 

Hux has Millicent, hasn't he?

 

Yes of course. There are types of stories that don’t need a big bad; SW isn’t one of them.

 

I was just talking about this at work yest. They have invested too much time with the Kylo redemption angle to just ignore in it 9.

 

The Big Bad is already dead. It was Snoke.

There is no time to create a new one.
If Hux is laughable as villain, Kylo is pathetic (and suspiciously on a path to redemption)

I'm with @A Chorus of Disapproval in this.

 

That’s a nice platitude. Then what’s the war? What’s the plot? No final lightsaber duel? Just Rey encouraging whiny Kylo to escape the darkness?

 

Kylo fans have now moved on to the "does Star Wars even need a villain?" stage of denying that Kylo is the main villain.

 

“The influence of the dark side” isn’t a character. It would basically mean that the central conflict is merely getting Kylo to return to the light. Meaning he’d turn at the very end, I guess?

I just don’t see what role that gives anyone other than trying to talk Kylo off the ledge, and presumably Kylo would have to be fulldark for most of the movie.

This trilogy isn’t structured like BatB where the central conflict is purely interpersonal, and between the villain and the primary protagonist.

ETA:

I’m not a big Kylo fan and I don’t think he’ll ultimately be the Big Bad. But I think Snoke will return in some form. I think that more likely then the Big Bad just being “the Dark Side.” I think the DS will have to be “purified” in some way, but that doesn’t make it a character with a personality.

 

I don't really see how Kylo Ren is not considered the big bad. Snoke was a misdirection that seemed to be set up as the more sinister entity, but he was basically there so Kylo Ren could achieve the ultimate power of the Dark Side. I mean, I thought that was how it worked, the Dark Side apprentice kills their master and takes their place in order to achieve power. Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only familiar with the films.

Also, both movies primarily focus on how the heroes deal with the conflict created by Ben Solo and the influence of the FO, which Kylo Ren is now the leader of. If Episode IX is consistent with the first two, then he will be the main villain.

 

I’m not sure we’ll get one, but I’d like to see another sequence with Kylo and Rey fighting side-by-side. But with banter this time. I think the generic quality if the enemies and lack verbal interaction between Rey and Kylo hurt my enjoyment if the TLJ guard fight.

 

Yeah but then a lot of people would complain that it's too much like a Marvel movie. Well...more than they already have.

Personally, I would like a Rey/Kylo sit-down scene. You know like those classic scenes where the villain threatens the hero about whatever plan they have in order to increase the tension. Although, I think a scene like that would be more effective if it was between Kylo and Finn.

 

Isn't it what the whole ST is about? Bringing Ben Solo home? Healing the would in the Force cause by Anakin's fall?
To balance the Force is the final target. It is what Anakin as Chosen One has started but not completed.

The Balance, which doesn't mean to destroy the Dark Side, but unify it with the Light Side.
Balance means equal measure of two parts.
And who's keeping Dark Side stronger than ever?
The War. The hate.
That's the Big Bad.

Not necessarily. I give Kylo the first 30 minutes of IX to go 80% dark, and I don't think he'll ever reach 100%. He'll be caugth between his usual self-loathing and inability to hit the Rebellion for his own conflict of interest. Then either he'll deflect (unlikely) or he'll be forced to run for his life because of a coup d'etat (courtesy of Millicent).

It is more likely to me than seeing Kylo becoming the Big Bad.

 

Without Kylo as big bad, who can fill the vacuum?
- RG's character? Um, who are you who just now showed up in this story?
- Hux? Doesn't have Force, and probably will simply be in role trying to overthrow Kylo and take power for himself (which I wouldn't underestimate him in that). But the power he is interested in is the military, which he considers *his* army. He doesn't want these Force users involved at all, most likely.

Rey and Kylo are set up as these dual points. She is the light (mostly), he is the dark (mostly). It is equal light vs. dark, as opposed to Luke vs. Vader and Emperor (which he could never win that if it was down to combat alone - without Vader saving him, he'd be dead).

I find it exciting Rey/Kylo being light v. dark. It reminds me of Daughter vs. Son in the TCW Mortis arc. The presence of 'Father' is still there in the form of Luke, but I imagine all he can do is talk to them; he can't interfere in the conflict itself.

Really, I think it's down to that the balance of the Force will emerge out of this conflict, in one form or another.

 

A satisfying ending that wraps up the entire 9 part saga and the shows the hopes and dreams of Ben's parents and uncle, along with Rey's goals for the Resistance, is thematically more important than strong antagonism.

Strong antagonism drives drama, yes, and in the average action film it's all but necessary to have your antagonist fighting to the bitter end but Star Wars isn't your average action film and revenge has never been at is core. Redemption and change are FAR BIGGER themes in Star Wars than revenge so this movie has the responsibility of not only being entertaining but as thematically rewarding as possible in relation to the 8 episodes preceding it and the character family lines that run throughout those 8 episodes.

I still believe Rey will be revealed to have a grandparental lineage tie-in to someone we have known a long time as well in the end so this will be doubly true for both her and Ben.

IX can afford to sacrifice optimal villainy for a happier ending if this is truly to be the end of the saga. Would it be unconventional for the young hero and villains of the VII and VIII to eventually find balance by stopping their fight before IX ends because they want to and have found a new way to end this conflict without killing each other? Absolutely. Does that mean that it should be avoided strictly because of the bloodlust of some in the audience for Kylo Ren's head based on what he's already done? I don't think so. Not in Star Wars.

And all of this feels new and unusual for Star Wars because we aren't accustomed to having "The big bad" -- that nobody watching and none of the characters in the movie cared for -- killed off a full movie early. That choice was a thrilling and shocking surprise and because of it we are still processing it from the perspective of what happened in the past. "There must be a big bad of tremendous dark side power and evil all the way to the end to kill" some think. Well... maybe not. Maybe not because a happier ending for Rey, Ben, Luke and Leia in force heaven, and finding a different kind of balance matters more than that.

 

Healing the family? Yes. But I don’t think the ST primarily revolves around redeeming Ben Solo.

That sounds akin to “Evil” being The Big Bad. I’d say that would then be true in most stories.

The Dark Side isn’t a character. It’s not a conciousness. The Big Bad may metaphorically personify the Dark Side, however, just as Big Bads in most stories tend to personify evil of some sort.

Well, he can’t be genuinely 100%; at least, as someone who thinks he’ll be redeemed, I think he can’t. But the good guys will presumably be fighting against the FO in 9, and Kylo leads the FO. I don’t think the time jump will be big, but does anyone think Kylo won’t have been trying to destroy the Resistance during this time?

I don’t see the point of having a “Kylo on the run” scenario. Would it just be him? Would he simply be trying to save his own skin? Would there be a story thread of Kylo alone and angsty? What would the story be here? I don’t see it.

That being said, I can see him acting as Big Bad til perhaps the midpoint of the movie? But I’d think that ultimately he’ll fight against the ultimate Big Bad, just as the heroes will.

I’m glad that someone else doesn’t think it’s the least likely scenario!

 

The probability rate to me would be < 2%
Still possible, though. Theoretically.

How about escaping court martial for murdering Snoke and usurping the throne power?

 

I don’t see how that would enrich the larger story. The ST movies are quasi-ensemble pieces. And while what I personally want to see has no bearing on what is likely to happen, I’d rather not the narrative focus on Kylo trying to save his own skin. I’d much rather him start acting selflessly.