ST Lightsaber Combat in the ST

His high waisted pants cover it I guess.

 

I haven't had reason to use the "civilized" term since high school prom.

 

I can totally see how he thinks they might impress Rey.

 

Color me confuse... so... he's the superior combatant, but his pain, turmoil and passion - which has traditionally been the primary source of strength for a Dark Side force wielder - now amplify his weakness, not his strength. If he were calmer (emotionally cool), at peace, like a Jedi, however, he would have been stronger... Which is why amateur swordsmen are able to defend themselves against him...

Is there precedent for this sort of thing that I have over looked? Would you mind providing a couple examples of instances where Dark Side wielders are weakened by their pain/turmoil/passion?

I was never skeptical of the idea that Star Wars movies can be excellent w/o lightsabers, I was skeptical if Disney would willing/capable of producing such a film. I am very pleased with Rogue One. I am 100% on board with more "gritty" war movies in TGFFA if they are able to keep the quality up to R1 standards.

 

R1 sold me on the concept, but without a doubt I think it should be the exception, not the rule.

 

LOL not the word "civilized" itself but the civilized term for high waisted pants ie: cummerbund as pointed out by Chorus.

 

The moment Vader calls out Luke's sister and Luke loses his cool (focus) in the throne room is the first moment Luke is able to overpower his father. His fear/anger (Palpatine refers to his "hate") made him stronger. I concede Luke was not wounded in this scene. If he had been wounded, however, I still believe that his Dark Side potential would be greater and when he lashed out at Vader it would have been like a wounded, cornered animal; there would have been no containing him.

I will re-watch TCW episode (The Lawless) again and reflect on this. My initial reaction is the Sidious factor calls into question Maul's Force potential. Maul may well have been "stronger" than he otherwise would have been, but was still no match for Sidious. I'll re-watch it.

Focus, perhaps, but focus on what, I believe is more the issue here. Kylo seems pretty focused on pain, rage and hate in the scenes after he is nailed by Chewie's bowcaster. That, to me, is the perfect Dark Side power-up recipe. The Jedi need to focus on resisting this temptation. The Sith (I know, I know) simply need to give themselves to it, which seems like the precise thing that Kylo has been attempting to accomplish the entire film.

Darth Vader seemed pretty arrogant to me in moments before his battle with Obi Wan. To me, the primary difference is that Vader's arrogance carries weight, Kylo's does not.

I would describe Kylo as being more bark than bite, while Vader was all bite. By the time one heard Vader bark, bodies were already dropping. I cant see a clear distinction with regard to "cockiness", though. Vader was so much more powerful than Kylo, it would hard for me to tell when Vader was being "cocky" or just being his everyday midichlorian jacked self. I'm not saying that Kylo isn't arrogant, he absolutely is. It's just hard for me to draw a comparison with regard to the degree he is more/less arrogant than his grandfather. Vader was so legitimately capable and Kylo hasn't convinced me.

In this moment, his distraction makes sense... even though I'm not a fan of the way the scene plays leading up to this point.

Maybe. It would have made more sense, given the history and the lore, for Kylo to hulk out (in a Sith-like manner (he's not Sith, I know. Dont get me started)), though. I get that this is not how the movie plays out... but it is the way that the movie plays that has me so confused. To me, the deck seems stacked for Kylo to have overpowered almost anyone that came up against him in that moment. The fact that it plays differently feels out of sync with Star Wars history and that makes me sad.

Finn should have lost an arm.

I come away form all of this wondering why was Snoke interested in Ben Solo in the first place. What is the Force so concerned about that it needed to "awaken" the Force in Rey. He doesn't seem to be very good at remaining in the light, but he has no Dark Side proclivity either? The instant Luke loses his cool, he is able to overpower Vader, but Kylo... what is he good at?

The Dark Side is easier, not more difficult to harness. The effort for the Jedi comes in resisting the Dark Side, because it would be easier to go down the dark path. So... That which has been the easier route for everyone before Kylo is the harder route for Kylo... I'm really having a hard time finding anything to like about this...

Agreed.

 

I think it was just a mistake really. If they sat down and discussed it then maybe with hindsight I think they would regret it. I'd have probably taken a more disposable character with Rey and have Kylo kill the disposable character and defeat Rey badly before she escaped somehow. It would avoid some of the Mary Sue accusations as well and give Kylo more respect as a bad-ass. Well actually I would have killed Finn but not sure if killing one of the new main good guys is allowed.

Snoke's jibe at Kylo for getting beaten by Rey sort of suggests that RJ was thinking - "what did they do that for - suppose I better acknowledge it" whilst face-palming".

I want to watch it back with it making sense so I'm just going with - he was badly injured. All very well being super-angry and full of dark side badness but injured is injured and injured people don't do stuff as well.

 

He wasn't just physically injured, though. The killing of Han left him emotionally unbalanced (I mean, he was already quite unbalanced, but this made matters worse) and that affected his ability to dominate the fight quite a bit.

 

And regardless of how much he could draw strength from his pain, one does have to consider that he was just shot in the gut with the GFFA's equivalent of a grenade launcher and was still on his feet. So considering everybody else who got hit with that thing went flying, the fact that he's even able to fight says something about how strong in the dark side he is, I mean, come on.

 

^This. Not just agreeing because you’re on my FF team.

I don’t think Kylo was so attuned with the dark side (due to conflict with the light) that he could even tap into the dark side for enhanced strength (like what Qui-Gon was able to do in TPM with the light).

 

I noticed Kylo takes a lot after his grandfather not only in his physical imitation ( breathing mask and distorted voice, taking a different name ) but when I see him fighting I see Vader. as in how I once imagined young man Vader would fight.
Basically trying to overwhelm his opponent with brutal physical strikes, while his defense mostly seems to be 'block then push back hard'

now in-universe one could easily say Kylo is trying to imitate that style and why wouldn't he?

but do you think was also deliberately done by the filmmakers/stunt geographer?

 

They look like two different fighting styles to me. Anakin is more fluid, graceful, precise in his movements. To me Kylo looks like he's just wildly thrashing about, very unbalanced and uncoordinated. He almost falls on his face at one point during the Throne Room scene.

 

I mean, if they're doing that, they're doing a horrible job. After all, Vader never lost his precision. He was still an exceptionally cunning duelist.

 

The fluid motion of Anakin's style is quick, aggressive, fluid and covers a wider range of defensive and offensive tactics. He has, imo, the most visually impressive, and badass, sword technique

 

As with most things that he does, it seems to me that Kylo is trying to imitate Vader, but his success is... inconsistent. That works for the story, IMO.

 

Force Muggle is my new favorite term.