Lit Dark Empire and Coruscant

It also had a holocron of Vodo-Siosk Baas, who was basically the same as Dark Empire's Bodo Baas, and it used Vima Da Boda as Kyp Durron's original Jedi teacher. Even though it's a direct sequel to Zahn's trilogy in a lot of ways, the Jedi Academy trilogy draws on Dark Empire more than any other SW novel. Like Noash points out, Vision of the Future basically dismisses DE entirely with a single throwaway line.

 

I've always found that Timothy Zahn is excellent but his use of the Force and the Empire were problematic. He didn't give much attention to the mystical side of the Force or the absolute evil of the Sith as well as their dark necromantic side. He also didn't treat the Empire as a terrifying horror that threatened to swallow the whole of galactic civilization that was in serbice to that evil.

So, just a wee bit of information. These are the stories that are influenced by Dark Empire.

* The Jedi Academy Trilogy
* Tales of the Jedi
** Dark Lords of the Sith
** The Sith War
* Crimson Empire
** Crimson Empire II
* Darksaber
* Dark Forces: Mysteries of the Sith
* Rogue Squadron, especially Isard's Revenge
* Darth Bane Trilogy (including his quest for immortality)
* Star Wars: Empire at War
* Star Wars: The Old Republic

Things brought into Legends by the Dark Empire and some into canon were:

* Vodo Bass
* Nomi Sunrider/Vima Da Boda
* Jedi Holocrons and Sith Holocrons
* The Eclipse Star Destroyer
* Ossus
* Leia actually completing her Jedi training
* Anakin Solo
* The Emperor's Dark Side Adepts
* The Sovereign Protectors
* Byss
* Force Transfer
* Kam Solusar

It's one of the most important pieces of the EU and the acting like it doesn't matter is ridiculous, especially since it was one of the few pieces of Star Wars media that relies heavily on the premise that is absolutely important of the Dark vs. Light Side being the central conflict that affacts all elements of the Galactic Civil War.

Zahn's distaste for a "reborn Emperor" also becomes ridiculous given the Sith's central goal has increasingly become the quest for immortality as a result of Dark Empire's influence.

Mind you, Dark Empire DOES get referenced ALL THE TIME in the EU so I don't understand the idea it was swept under the rug.

 

KJA aside Bantam authors really did sweep it under the rug. Look at Ossus --- a hugely important planet in the EU's later years, but the first novel it was even mentioned in post-DE was The Unifying Force. KJA was the only pre-NJO novel author to use Kam (I, Jedi doesn't count since it's a retelling of a KJA story). Imperial Warlords being at war with each other was only a plot point in a KJA book; other Bantam novels had unrelated villains of the week.

Tales of the Jedi was obviously hugely informed by DE, but 90s novel authors whose books were set just a few years later had no problem ignoring it. Granted, Empire's End didn't wrap up until the end of 1995, but KJA was so in tune with what Veitch was planning for it that Anakin Solo and Kam Solusar actually made their first appearances in 1994's Dark Apprentice, despite being created by Veitch for DE II, which came out a year later.

KJA aside, the Bantam novels were very much their own little pocket universe. 1995's The Essential Guide to Characters referenced some of the Marvel stuff, like Shira Brie, but it's pretty apparent that the novels' editors would tell new authors to only take other New Republic era books into account (with Anakin's existence being probably the sole exception). Even in KJA's Jedi Search the status quo from the end of The Last Command is largely restored despite DE having happened --- for example, Lando comes to visit Leia and updates her on what's been happening with his mining operation on Nkklon, as if that were the only recent adventure in his life.

And it makes a lot of sense --- comics more than a month or two old weren't very accessible to casual readers twenty-five years ago. The Bantam/LFL editors wouldn't want to be championing the interconnectedness of their universe while simultaneously making the reader feel like they had missed a hugely important chunk of it. It's a different ball game today, but things weren't the same back then.

 

It's kind of funny that the biggest nod to DE in the Black Fleet Crisis is the mention a few times of Byss being the Imperial capitol, which would not make a whole lot of sense after EE finally got published.

 

It's a shame Zahn and Veitch couldn't coordinate the timeline of their stories.

 

It takes two to tango, Zahn didn't want to dance.

 

Wishful thinking since it's a bad story with bad artwork?

 

I don't think JEDI SEARCH was at all "sweeping" things since it incorporated the Maw as the origins of the World Devastators, a Sith Spirit, the Jedi Holocron, and many many other adventures into the story.

It's also the Republic at a point so weak that it can be threatened by Parris Island Marine Academy.

 

You know, the one thing I liked about Jedi Search was that Luke actually went to the New Republic leadership and formally requested Mon Mothma's permission to rebuild the Jedi Order. It showed that he was dedicated to reviving the Jedi as an organized force to help the Republic, thus continuing the rich tradition that the Old Order had kept alive for a millennium. Canon Luke seemed to show no interest in helping the New Republic at all, which is something I find disappointing. The Jedi's allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy.

 

I always wished we had gotten a DE novelization.

 

I'd argue the Sequel Trilogy should be on the list in some regards... I mean I guess LOTF is more of a influence on the ST, but IDK the First Order got those Dark Empire vibes and the Galaxy is essentially (Well maybe 9 will change that) under Imperial/Dark Side rule...Oh your talking directly influenced by Dark Empire...My bad! Oh wait...Plagueis...Gotta add Plaguis...That book is pretty much the culimation of all the ideas set up in Dark Empire in my opinion.

But i agree with everything else you say...Heck I'm gonna go far as to say I think Dark Empre is a better template for Star Wars than the TTT and I love TTT but sometimes it doesn't have the same zing of Star Wars that makes it that mythic epic.

Though i prefer Star Wars as more fantasy driven myself.

 

Here: https://pdfkul.com/test-of-wills-dark-empire-fan-novelpdf_59d3f2c21723dd2c845b582c.html

 

I'm familiar with that, I never did like it.

 

Sometimes I think of making a topic on here of all the Sequel Trilogy/Dark Empire parallels but I never get around to it.

Yeah, Dark Empire was the springboard for a lot of the old EU. Even planted it's virile seed into actual canon films with some influence in ROTS. For some to suggest it be ignored or forgotten is kind of silly given its importance.

 

And now in canon the Republic never took Coruscant at all.

At least Force Commander and Galactic Battlegrounds established that Coruscant was an epic ground battle (though come to think of it the planet doesn't have much ground....), something analogous to the Battle of Berlin in WW2

 

I have only one response regarding that threat of yours my friend ;p



Eh you know what...I think I'll "Do it"

 

The Holiday Special was important in establishing Kashyyyk, Boba Fett, and Chewie's family, and The Glove of Darth Vader (IIRC) established Duros as a polluted world.

I can acknowledge that a Star Wars story had some elements that were influential, even positive, while still having an overall negative opinion of that story and believing that we'd all be better of if we pretended that it was out of continuity. (Or at the very least used Broad Strokes).

 

Instead of moving Dark Empire to after the Thrawn Trilogy, could they have said that Dark Empire was a holodrama or a nightmare that Luke had?

 

Yeah he just wakes up in an E-Wing one day.

 

Wouldn't Luke's focus on rebuilding the Jedi Order between ROTJ and Ben's turn be, by definition, taking an interest in helping the NR? He appears to do so outside of direct NR oversight, and it's clearly more of a long term project in canon than it was in Legends, but the ultimate purpose of a renewed order would presumably be to serve as "the guardians of peace and justice in the New Republic." There's no other worthwhile reason for him to go to all the trouble of restoring the Jedi, really.

 

That is logical, but I don't think it's true in this case. Luke saw great potential in Ben. That's why he decided finally rebuild the Jedi Order. He never makes any mention as to his responsibility to the New Republic. By the time of Bloodlines, the New Republic hasn't heard a thing from Luke for many years. Canon Luke Skywalker did not care about the Republic. He had no allegiance to democracy.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

If he is not with them he is their enemy!

 

I never minded DE and the Thrawn trilogy fitting together a year apart. The NR wins a hard and lucky victory against Thrawn and doesn't get to rest on its laurels and faces a reborn palpatine. I actually really like the political and military implications of defeating one hard enemy and then being rushed into fighting another one with only a little breathing space in between.

 

Mind you, the Dark Empire Sourcebook was an amazing work that talked a great deal about how the TTT and DE worked.

Palpatine didn't retake Coruscant.

Ars Dangor did.

@GrandAdmiralJello

Yes, you can squee. Ars did it to *finger wag* avenge Grand Admiral Thrawn *finger wag* and the victory was because the New Republic's military was battered and away from the Core thanks to Thrawn's stratagems.

It's only after they retook Coruscant that Palpatine declared himself.

 

Coming a bit late to the party, since I was busy during the week-end, but I have some (I hope) relevant contributions to the discussion.

First of all, remember that the name 'Coruscant' was Zahn's invention, the original name given by the WEG material that he was given access to was 'Imperial Planet', a name you can actually see in Dark Empire's opening pages:



Secondly, since there has been talk of a novelization, let me point to an alternative to the one of Publius, namely one posted many years ago on these boards by user Jedi_Anakin_Solo, preserved here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1xrbefvrr5hb7ym/AACeUlfzeeJ9ZvVoEmWwkIGCa