ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

The likelihood of books or just comics is IMO far higher than any kind of filmed version, even animated. The dark horse being some video game backstory. Though maybe after 9, they just move on from that story. They seem far more interested in creating content with new characters, roughly situated in certain timelines where you may get the occasional reference but not those stories.

At the moment my bet would be a limited comic series about it.

 

Because it's not where they were in ROTJ or a logical progression from where they were in ROTJ. Instead, it's back to "Han and Leia fight because that's what they do" Newsflash - when we left them, they don't.

Don't care about Rogue One or Solo, speaking of trashing Han Solo...but I digress.

The message of ROTJ is that because of redemption and good triumphing and family, the galaxy will change for the better. Oh, until we need another conflict, then we'll just remake the OT.

First of all, Chewie is not the family dog. Second, why should Rey inherit the Falcon and not Chewie? She has no connection to the family. Third, again, where ONSCREEN does Han give the Falcon to Rey?

Well, that's correct.

Yes, I wanted to see Han be the elder statesman - because he was a respected general in ROTJ and that was the whole point of his arc - that he'd changed into a good man or grown into who he was meant to be, not for him to immediately go back into smuggling. But like JJ, you want cool Han not the guy he was at the end of ROTJ.

Luke ending up as a hermit is even less like the character he was in the OT or where he was going forward. He tries to kill his nephew but hey, that's just in line with how he was in ROTJ! Why did you expect anything different from him doing what Yoda and Obi Wan did?

I don't know, if they did nothing different, what was the point of the OT? What was it? All their character growth is gone, all their work is in ruins, their lives are in ruins - they might as well have all bought it at the end of New Hope.

Why would I want a temple miniseries? Really, I want to see Luke's order before they're all slaughtered or turned? I want to see them turn Luke into a further failure the way the comics have done to Han? Why exactly?

 

Speaking of pre-Island Luke stories, I'm in favor of seeing them, including temple days because it is our only chance of seeing a heroic Jedi knight Luke. Don't just keep him to OT era appearances and force ghost show ups.

The years preceding the academy as a wandering Jedi could also create some good stories. Seeing Luke act the opposite of his depressed/island self. Searching the galaxy for Jedi artifacts and helping people in need. The Big 3 sharing scenes would also be welcomed.

I have some questions about that 24 year era that I hope are answered someday.

1. What led to his students (not named Ben) joining him?

2. Was the Temple built by Luke, did it also have its own staff?

3. How similar/different was Luke training towards his students compared to Jedi of old?

4. Did Luke encounter any dark siders after the end of the Sith but before Bens fall? And how did Snoke corrupt Ben?

5. What was the relationship between Luke/students with the New Republic?

6. Did Obiwan, Yoda, or Anakin ever appear to Luke in these years?

 

Good stuff. I would love to get into all of this more too. Lots of interesting stories to tell.

Fingers crossed we get into some of this more in the years ahead.

 

Again, the original point was this: George Lucas DID make retcons and changes that changed the OT and perceptions of the OT. That's all. I don't even mind these changes, but it's inaccurate for someone to say otherwise.

I agree with you on all of this.

File this under stuff we didn't know about until they happened: Luke blamed himself for the collapse of his Jedi Academy, the loss of Ben Solo, and failing his family, and the galaxy at large. People argue: That's not how Luke could/should respond. The fact of the matter is, we haven't seen him for 30+ years. His darkest moments in life have happened since we last saw him. How do we know how he'll react? Nothing in the OT was as bad as this. Was it? This doesn't retcon Luke's behavior in the OT.

I totally understand you. I think that's the weakness of having these events happen off screen.

All things that he was not responsible for. He wasn't the cause of any of these things (maybe the hand chop). In the ST he blames himself for the sad state of everything.

Again, a major sticking point for many. I admit. Let me ask this: Anakin's fall was not shown in the OT. Does that make his redemption less dramatic/impactful/earned? Meaning, do you not feel empathy for Luke because you didn't see enough of what went wrong with Kylo Ren?

1. I agree. They didn't have to deconstruct everything. I just don't hate that they did.
2. Luke never quit before. He never had as big of a loss as what happened to his family, his Jedi Academy, etc. Yes, he had bad things happen to him, but rarely was he responsible for it all. Yes, in the OT he had setbacks. None massive. Not BIG failures. Never with the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders. I don't think there needs to be a lot of head cannon to explain. Han says it: Luke blamed himself and walked away. So, seems pretty bad to me. Was it not?

Who's this on the left guy? For a character that didn't exist he sure took up a lot of screen time and plot exposition.

Does Lucasfilm not reserve the right to portray Luke Skywalker however they want? Furthermore, was hermit/recluse/broken Luke Skywalker not a George Lucas idea?

 

Anyhow we should stick to talking about Luke as this conversation is going way off topic.

Agreed.

 

Anakin and Kylo shouldn't even be a comparison. Hell, Jacen and Kylo shouldn't be one either.

I've done this before, but lets highlight elements of Anakin compared to Kylo. Im paraphrasing since I don't remember the exact quotes.

Respect:
Kylo: "You mean nothing in this story."
Anakin: "Your people thought ya did a good job. I heard they even tried to amend the constitution so you could serve another term. I'm glad you chose to serve."

Kylo: "You look at Solo as the father you never had. He would've disappointed you."

Anakin: "Don't get me wrong. Obi-Wan is a great mentor. As wise as Master Yoda. As powerful as Master Windu. I am truly grateful to be his apprentice."

Loyalty/Care
Kylo: *sees TIEs blow up his mother* ....
Anakin: *sees clones under attack* I'm gonna go help them out.

*Palpatine tells Anakin to leave a wounded Obi-Wan* His fate will be the same as ours.

*Padme falls out of gunship* Put the ship down. I can't leave her!

Humor:
Kylo: You are so right. *kills dude*

Anakin: *saves Obi-Wan from getting killed* I am a slow learner.

"Aggressive negotiations? What's that?"
"Well..uh..negotiations with a lightsaber"

Complexity/Motivation:
Kylo: "I can feel the pull of the light." "I don't know if I have the strength to do it." *does it with no remorse* "I didn't hate him."

Anakin: "I wasn't strong enough to save you mom. I wasn't strong enough. But I promise, I won't fail again."

"Then lets hope Master Kenobi is up for the challenge."
"I should be there with him."
"Its upsetting to see the Council doesn't fully appreciate your talents. Dont you wonder why they won't make you a Jedi Master?"
"I wish I knew. More and more i get the feeling that Im excluded from the Council."
"They Dont trust you, Anakin."

Logic/Wisdom:

Kylo: I mean, he kills Snoke to become leader so I guess thats cool. Doesn't make him wiser tho.

Anakin: *realizes Obi-Wan is right about Padme continuing the mission* "She would do her duty."

"I say patience."

And I used examples mostly from AOTC.

 

Not to get too personal, but: Are you married? In a relationship? People (even in healthy relationships) bicker and argue all of the time. Espeically couples that have known/loved each other forever. To me, that stuff makes the GFFA grounded and realistic. Much like the "used universe" aesthetic of the ships. Like it could really happen.

You told me massive loss and family tragedy doesn't happen in Star Wars. Clearly it does....routinely. Even in the films you don't care about. Do you care about the Prequels? I notice you just avoided addressing them. Basically they are all massive loss of family, society, freedom, and life.

So is the message of ROTJ "things change" or "things change for the better?" You are saying both.. these are different. Also, it's explicitly said that things did change for the better. Luke Skywalker says as much. A New Republic is built (democracy and freedom, yay!) . A new Jedi Academy is started. Han and Leia stay together and have a kid.

"Chewbacca is basically the family dog." -George Lucas
You are right, Han doesn't give Rey The Falcon. It is likely Chewie's. She sits in Han's seat. Han bequeaths her a spot on The Falcon when he offers her a job. She and Chewie are it's crew.

1. He was a General. Respected? I don't know... we didn't see much in ROTJ. He was kind of same ol' scoundrel Han in a leadership position. I mean, he wasn't negotiating peace treaties or anything. He was blowing stuff up, breaking into things, and threatening Ewoks. Nothing about that (especially his Ewok aggression) was pointing him being an elder statesman. He was a scoundrel that had softened and found a family.
2. He didn't IMMEDIATELY go back to smuggling. Again, 30 some years have passed and A LOT of things (good and bad) have happened. The family was shattered by losing Ben Solo. That's why he went back to what he knows. They say so in the movie.

1. Again, going forward from the OT things were happy. Luke (and we, the audience) didn't have any clue that decades later his nephew would join the darkside. How do we know how he'd react?
2. He didn't try to kill his nephew. If he wanted to, he would have.

I don't know, if they did nothing different, what was the point of the OT? What was it? All their character growth is gone, all their work is in ruins, their lives are in ruins - they might as well have all bought it at the end of New Hope.

 

LFL does reserve the write to present Luke however they want that doesn’t excuse them from criticism, bad writing and make him a completely different character. They can do it they will just gave criticism for it and rightly so.

With regards to Luke not suffering a giant tragedy such such as losing his family he does that literally and his answer is I will become a Jedi. This is also partially his fault for listening to Threepio just like losing his academy and Kylo is partially his fault in one instance he immediately picks himself up in another he decides he should die.... please. In ESB he loses his hand and his best friend and finds out that Vader is his father something that is played 10 times more emotional than the loss of his academy because of how personal it was.

The loss of his academy could have been played that way however it just is not which is due to poor execution and we as the audience have no reason to invest in this. Also i will mention it again the set up in TFA true to Luke’s character is him going on a long journey to pick himself up instead we get what we got

Anakin exists as a character outline in the OT there is that image and a few lines from Obi - Wan and Yoda other than we know nothing about him hit snippets.

What GL does in the PT is flesh things out for the characters what he does in OT are small retcons however he does not change the overall story with those changes as you once again you ignore the point being made in order to be right....

 

Question: So far, which Star Wars Trilogy has been more criticized over all: The Prequel Trilogy or The Sequels?

Luke gets his hand chopped off. Han is frozen (we actually see no reaction from Luke on this either way. We can assume he is sad about it). Vader reveals that he is Luke's father. How many of these are Luke responsible for? One. Maybe? None of these are his failures. None of these impact the ENTIRE galaxy. None of these impact The Rebel Alliance.

Luke fails to train Ben Solo. He (unwittingly) helps hasten Kylo Ren's turn to the dark side. His academy is slaughtered (no new Jedi :-( ). His family (Han and Leia who trusted him with their son) is fractured. The First Order is able to rise.

Which is more impactful to the Galaxy? Which is more personal? Which is Luke's fault?

Which one were we (the audience) there for beat by beat?

Get what I am saying? The weakness of Luke's fall from grace is that we, largely, didn't see it. We weren't as emotionally invested. Just because it didn't impact us (the audience) as much doesn't mean it didn't impact Luke Skywalker.

I agree with you mostly.

I don't disagree. This is not what you said initially. Small retcons are still retcons. I will say this: When the prequels hit, MANY fans could not make the leap between the whiny, petulant, emo Anakin and the Dark Lord of the Sith. For me, the chasm between Anakin in the PT and Darth VAder in the OT is much larger than Luke in the OT and Luke in the ST.

 

I said that the PT trilogy does not retcon the OT i also said that the changes you referenced specifically were not retcons such as Bobba Fett’s voice and Hayden were not retcons as they do not change continuity. Adding on Jabba to a new hope is the perfect example of a retcon and yet it does not change the overall story of the films and with regards to changing Han shooting i agreed was a mistake.

I can see how Anakin in the PT can seem far from Vader and respect your opinion however the character elements of Anakin are present in Vader and while Anakin continually makes mistakes and fails to overcome his flaws so much so that he becomes Darth Vader, Luke is presented as learning and overcoming his flaws and growing as a character.

I can’t see how the character at the end of ROTJ ends up as the man we see in TLJ without massive events and changes. The last time Luke was rash because of a vision he lost his hand you don’t regress after an event like that you literally see your hand and think WTF is wrong with me. The Luke in TLJ is an amalgamation of every flaw that he overcame in the OT and the story just wants me to accept they this is him now. The way it ignores progression is why i can’t stand the characterization and the fact that the trilogy does nothing to earn it it is damn right lazy and bad..:.

 

It’s in now way presented in ANH that he is anything but worried that they might have determined that his Uncle bought the droids. There’s nothing in his dialogue during or after to suggest he blamed himself because in that situation he shouldn’t. Obi-Wan even tells him that if he had somehow been there he would be dead too. Luke doesn’t even say that he wishes he was there. He accepts it wasn’t his fault and the attachment he had to Tatooine is no longer gone and he wants to go with Obi-Wan right after. The two situations couldn’t be more different in that way and only serve to highlight that we’ve never seen Luke feel responsible for something like this before.

Here we know from Han in TFA that he did blame himself and that he did walk away from everything.

Here we see his anguish over an event he feels directly responsible for in more ways than one from also being the teacher of a family member who used skills he taught him to do this. Those are bodies on the ground in the second photo. All over. The bodies of the young that he recruited who he feels are dead primarily because of him and the Jedi teachings he gave. And here the enemy he feels he helped become more evil was his own nephew who now idolizes everything Luke stood against. He’s been through a lot in his life, yes, but this is an unprecedented scenario for him of anger at himself from letting the dark side in, helping push his nephew to a breaking point, and his nephew then using skills he taught him to kill young people who had nothing to do with this. Then he learns that some even followed Ben and that they all idolize Vader. His sister sent him to him to help him and the opposite happens. His legacy at the temple and all the time he put into this gone. His efforts to undo his father’s Dark Side legacy undone. And perhaps this Jedi thing just doesn’t seem as amazing as it did when he was twenty because he’s learned more about some of their problems since and more about the extent of his father’s misdeeds. Imagine having all of that dumped on you.







Look at the anguish on his face.

I caused this. These kids are dead because of me. Because I let the Dark Side in again from fear of loss. Using techniques I taught. I’ve given everything to the Jedi and what has it brought me and my family? First my father and now this. It’s broken and it needs to end. No more pain. The first temple. It’s me and the library. That’s it. I will see that no one finds this damned religion ever again. I know I won’t be liked for it. I know people won’t understand but I must do this. It’s the only way to break this cycle for good.

Now, obviously he didn’t say that and I’m not saying he did but when I look into his anguish I can imagine these thoughts and get myself there.

 

Again, massive events and changes did entail. Luke Skywalker experienced devastation, loss, and failure far beyond anything he'd previously suffered. If only someone would upload pictures of this event. Oh wait. They did. @Ender_and_Bean

 

I think the skeletons of his aunt and uncle and there burnt our farm are more impactful then a burning temple thanks. You have your opinion however an 18 year old losing his only family that he has lived with in 18 years and seeing them dead and burnt to a crisp and only their skeletons remain is far more impactful the anything seen in The Last Jedi. With regards to his temple he was a teacher for a few years we don’t know how long because the film neglects to tells us and in both cases he is partially responsible use better arguments if you wish to continue this conversation. Losing a parent is incredibly devastating and his response was i will make the world a better place by becoming a Jedi. TLJ is the exact opposite and this was the first time we met Luke not even half way through a movie.....

 

@Jedi_Fenrir767 , he never once suggests he thinks it’s his fault in ANH because he shouldn’t and as Obi-Wan says the moment he gets off the Speeder, saying nothing himself... he’d have been dead too. He seems to accept that fact and there’s no indication on screen he ever felt even partially responsible at all in the movie. Given the choice he makes he then continues his pursuit against those who have wronged him. The Empire and this Vader perform who betrayed, murdered and killed his father.

Here he believes he’s responsible in more ways than one. Here his enemy isn’t some the Empire. All he knows of us that it was the nephew he trained who did it. He even shares that Leia told him about Snoke and how she believed it was him but Luke disagreed and believed it was him. All the way to the end of him actually telling Ben he was sorry.

So, again, we’ve seen never a situation where Luke felt this responsible before for the pain of so many others.

 

As has been said, as tragic as the deaths of his aunt and uncle are...He is not responsible for it. He is not the cause. It’s horrible grief, but not on his shoulders. Leia trusted Luke with her son. Again, his biggest failure...

 

No, I didn’t say massive loss or family tragedy doesn’t happen in Star Wars. I’m not going to re-argue the rest, I’m done.

You finish by assuming, for some reason, I’m really asking myself what the point of the ST is? I know what it is. They told me - kill the past. Some fans are fine with that, I’m not one of them.

 

You realize you are quoting THE VILLAIN, right? Surely this cannot be the barometer about what these films are about. This is as hyperbolic as if I were to say the point of the PT is, “Wipe them out, all of them.” Or that the OT is really, "Let the hate flow through you."

Also, I apologize for mistaking your words. Did you not say:
"I am also officially sick of 'that happens in life.' Tell me when it happens in Star Wars besides Han and Leia?"

As a response to me saying that sometimes things fall apart, families get shattered, and bands break up?

 

Are you kidding me Luke is directly responsible for their initiating the chain of events deaths. The moment he says Uncle Owen what about that Blue one he has set off the chain. He is not responsible for the individual actions taken suxh as the the Empire’s and Kylo’s in terms of the destruction cause but the chain of events were set off by Luke in both situations. Losing a parent at an early age is absolutely devastating and clearly from your comments you don’t believe or understand that and just want to be right so there is no point in continuing this discussion with on the face of the worst thing he has ever faced Luke’s first reasons is positive and progressive without any through line how is it acceptable that his response is regressive and negative 30 years later as he has never showcased that quality.

The character can complete make sense for you subjectively but objectively as it’s terrible writing as the writers refuse to put on the world to justify it. There are people on this board who disagree with me in terms of subjectivity and i respect for enjoying the character of Luke in TLJ iand acknowledging the issues of his story. It’s their opinion and they are entitled to it. Much as i enjoy some terrible movies but will it tells to et hey are great just because i liked it. If you want to discuss actually facts of characterization and narrative structure i will gladl debate with you and feel free but i will not debate opinions and subjectivity because this is pointless and as you seem to believe your subjective opinion is objective debating this with you will go on and on because we will never agree and i am done.

 

It’s nowhere near factual though that Luke believes and feels guilty that it’s his fault that they his guardians were killed by the Empire.

At most, he wonders if it might have been different had he been there if we take Kenobi’s words as what was reslly on his mind but as soon as Kenobi tells him he’d be dead to and that things would have been even worse he believes that.

If you don’t feel like it’s your fault and don’t feel responsible for it then that’s not the same thing as what happens in VIII where he actually does and he has far more reason in VIII to truly feel responsible for the tragedy that happened.

 

How exactly do you determine which actions by which individuals 'set off' a chain of events and which don't?

It seems that Luke would feel much more responsible for the deaths of his students then he would those of his aunt and uncle, for what it's worth. One would be seen as fairly far out of his control with the other being within his control, and more importantly, his direct responsibility.

 

Where is it stated, implied, or written that Luke feels ( by asking his uncle " what about that one?") that he feels responsible? Is he? Indirectly, I suppose....but that isn't made clear at any point in the film. Could we infer that he feels responsible? Sure. But that's it. It's never stated in the ANH.

Realistically, he couldn't have possibly known. Also, the stormtroopers were killing groups that had any contact with R2D2. We (the audience) could infer that Owen and Beru would have been killed even if the red one worked out.The Jawas weren't spared. They didn't even have Artoo at that point.

Be honest, this is VERY different than the set of circumstances than his involvement in the loss/turning of Ben Solo...in which, Luke knows the risks, knows the stakes, is a fully trained Jedi Master, full of wisdom, etc. Luke Skywalker takes direct responsibility for Kylo Ren, the fall of his Jedi Academy, and the breaking up of his family. He says as much in TLJ.

Again, in TFA and TLJ it is repeatedly hammered home that Luke blames himself for all of it. So he walked away. That's just not the case in ANH. Surely you know this.

Yikes. A little personal/trolling no? How do you know I haven't lost family members? Yeesh.
Let's say a few facts laid out in the movie:
Luke isn't a child in ANH. Is he 19? Not really and early age. Technically an adult.
Beru and Owen aren't his parents. They are his aunt and uncle.
Luke never comments one way or another about how responsible he feels for suggesting to Uncle Owen that he take R2-D2.

Listen, I am sure he is devastated by their deaths, but (again) it's not made clear how much he blames himself (if at all.) Unlike the situation in the ST, this just is never a point that has been made in ANH. If you have an example that states otherwise (beyond the film even) let me know.
Am I denying the horror of what happens to Luke's family (Beru and Owen)? No. It's just that the film doesn't dwell on it. It shows it and moves on. Though it may be inferred otherwise, George Lucas doesn't really make it Luke's motivation for anything other than leaving with Obi-Wan. Classic heroic journey type stuff.

If you don't want have a conversation with me, that's okay. I feel like I have been fairly objective in terms of discussing characterization and narration. I think if you look back at our posts you'll see this.If I have been rude or overly subjective, I apologize.

*Is this objective or subjective?

 

It’s quite som’lenres

That really is not all that difficult if you look at traditional narrative structure particularly in visual mediums like TV and Film often characters who have the must cursory involvement in situations and can't control the actions that others take based on the actions that they take do feel responsible. Parents rebuking children, friends ignoring what can be perceived as a cry for help, or just choosing to not show up to an event and then someone close to you is killed people feel. In this case Luke makes a comment that is the direct catalyst to leading the Stormtroopers going to his home as he is the one in the film that in fact puts it all together that they are going there because of the sequence of events that occurred that brought R2 to his home and is proven right when he gets there. The film makes it clear that R2 is responsible for the Empire going to the Lars Moisture farm and Luke is the person that brought R2 to the farm and both are indirectly responsible due to the actions taken by the Empire because no one is directly responsible for the actions of another person especially when they are as extreme as murder. To summarize if Owen had just gotten a refund or had not Luke not suggested the blue R2 unit the OT as we know it would not have happened. If you would like to argue that Own shares the same responsibility as Luke for taking his suggestion then that is pretty much irrefutable and we can argue who is more at fault if you so chose. Characters and people share responsibility or feel shares responsibility the moment they are part of an event whether or not they have full control and that is shown in reality and in faction on more occasions they can possibly be counted. (unless they have some type of psychological issue). We can debate whether people should feel responsible or not or not however I don't think we will get anywhere as this debate has raged for a long time now and doesn't belong in this thread.

If you want to make the debate the fact whether Luke felt responsibility or anger etc. I am more than willing to debate that because those things are entirely subjective as ANH does not give us a clear statement as to what Luke is feeling. All we see is that after he has lost his home and his family he is choosing to walk his father's path with Obi - Wan and move forward and progress as a character as I have stated in the face of adversity Luke Skywalker as a character presented onscreen until VIII moves forward not backwards and TLJ presents us with the antithesis of this element of his character as he has now faced adversity and moved backwards instead of forwards while in TFA Han Solo implied he went to find the first Jedi Temple to learn and progress forward. The same happens after ESB he suffer a massive defeat and still pushes forward.

I don't see how the loss of Luke's student's to Kylo is a situation that would make him feel anymore responsible as the decision to destroy and murder is entirely Kylo's just like the decision to decimate the farm was the Empire's and not Luke's. Kylo could have taken his followers (the decision to leave is their own as well) and left in the night however he chose not to do that and kill those that disagreed the same way the Empire chose to kill the Lars's and destroy their moisture farm. In fact if you think about it Kylo incapacitated Luke and with how he has been shown to feel about him and only a few minutes after their encounter in the hut proceeds to turn dark then why is Luke even alive. Being force sensitive he would have known he was alive in the rubble and if Kylo hates him and wants to destroy him as much as TFA and TLJ portray he should have killed him as well as the other students at the academy that wouldn't join him.

As you so causally took a shoot at @PendragonM with regards to their own personal relationships why should anyone in this thread take care about your own personal feelings or situation just because you state something about don't take this the wrong way doesn't excuse the commentary being made and this is something you opened yourself up to.

Let's also take a look at facts from ROTS and ANH Luke is given to them as a baby whether they are mother and father or aunt and uncle they are his parents he has known no others in his entire life.

If you would like to comment on his parents being the just the motivation for his classic Hero's journey beyond anything else then you can't argue that the loss of his temple which is delivered with much less emotion is anything more than a story catalyst for him being on that island.

I am more than fine having a conversation with you however I think you need to re read your posts and the conversation from the point of view of myself and others in this thread as you have not been objective in most of your arguments on the subject which is why you have others saying they are done rehashing parts of the discussion with you. You have an opinion and are arguing to prove your point while ignoring the fact myself and others have conceded the fact that yes Luke in TLJ could make sense, he could have lived 30 terrible years and ended up being that guy on the island. Others have said that no matter what the case they would have hated it, while and I and others have conceded that if it had been well explained and well executed orthe character had progressed in a similar manner during the OT and this version of Luke was a logical outcome from ROTJ then we would have to go with it and state out subjective opinion that this is not Luke Skywalker.

The fact of the matter with regards to TLJ is that none of it was earned explained or an inherrent as part of the character until RJ decided that it was. Your entitled to like it Mark Hamill gave a great performance and at this point I will paraphares the man himself for the last time. This character was so different that I had to imagine some major trauma because Jedi don't give up they may retreat and regroup they don't give up (meaing the whole temple thing wasn't enough for Mark Hamill to play Luke as the Luke RJ wanted) To me this character was Jake Skywalker.

I will reiterate I don't care if you like TLJ and it's portrayal of Luke and I don't want to make someone not like TLJ, you are entitled to your opinion, I will however argue the facts, and narrative structure of a story that can be shown to be objectively bad or poorly written and executed. Which is something that can be applied to the PT, incredible story with some of the worst execution ever seen in a major franchise. I enjoy two of the worst Fast and the Furious movies they are awful and I will never recommend them to anyone but I enjoy them and acknowledge just how flawed they are. Doesn't stop me from enjoying them though and you should enjoy what you like and no one can take that away from you doesn't mean it's good because you like it though. I really enjoy the Wing Commander movie for some reason and god that is an awful film with so many problems.

 

DP