ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Yeah, JJ thought there would be romance, while working on the film that gave us Rey AND FINN as the actual heart of the story. JJ described Rey in the commentary as literally "falling for" Finn. How do people erase his character so entirely from the story to jump to the conclusion that the monster that abducted her and violated her intimately MUST be the love interest JJ was talking about? It's absolutely baffling.

Rey can make mistakes, but that's irrelevant to whether she demonstrated clear-cut lack of self-respect when she waltzed off on a suicide mission for Kylo's soul. Rey's life is worth more than that. Too bad Rey didn't think so.

 

The films themselves debunk romantic reylo though, and people who support it don't care. DR shot it down, and people who support it don't care. While I don't respect LFL for pandering to romanticized abuse, it's a sensical decision from a purely business pov to tease their way to as much money as they possibly can. They know there are people buying anything they can solely on the fantasy that reylo is real. They want as much of that money as they can get before they dash those fragile little hopes into a billion pieces.

And let's be real: If Luke had waltzed up to Vader on Hoth and told him there was still good in him, he wouldn't be the hero of the OT, he would be a joke. A dead one, at that. Luke's compassion in RotJ ONLY works because Anakin contributed to his DNA.

 

She didn't choose him over them. She wanted him to tun so he could help them win the war. The Resistance's survival was always her main priority and after the fight on the Supremacy, he first thought went on the Resistance fleet, and when he didn't turn she didn't stay with him like you would expect if she was lacking self-respect, no, she took charge of things and went back to her "family" which is Finn, Leia and the Resistance by extension. Now we learned that while Rey, Finn and Poe will have this "family" dynamic in IX, Rey will be singled out due to her Force abilities which means something is still missing to close her story. Part of that thing is to solve her conflict with Kylo Ren which will apparently be a core element of TROS. Having Finn, Poe, Rose and the Resistance by her side is not enough.

 

She chose Kylo over herself. Rey sent her body 100% defenseless into enemy territory on the assumption that by asking Kylo nicely, with her life on the line, he'd stop being a psychopath that already did so many terrible things to her directly and others she cared for. When she escaped him the first time, he stalked her and maimed her friend. She had to escape him twice after he abducted her.

This time, she went to him to save his soul. You can say it's for the Resistance, but that's nonsense. She was having hand sex with him before she thought he would magically flip sides, and even with the vision, it didn't require her to take the insanely stupid step of putting her life entirely in Kylo's hands. People with self-respect might try to reach out to Kylo without going full on suicidal to do it. Rey decided to gamble her existence on the idea that she was totally defenseless unless Kylo turned. She was okay with that. That RJ clearly never even considered the implications to Rey's self respect tells me a lot about the pov he was approaching this script from.

 

So what's the 0 for 2/0 for 3? Also if Disney/JJ didn't want that "average Reylo meta" published, it wouldn't see the light of day.

 

Ummmmmm what? Disney doesn't/can't censor fanfic or tumblr content lol. That's like saying, "if JJ didn't want Finn/Poe fan art out there, it wouldn't exist." lol

 

There a difference in scale and reach between a Vanity Fair cover story with Annie Leibowtz photos, and tumblr fanfic.

 

Oh I see what you were saying. Gotcha.

And I disagree. Reylo is clickbait at this point. Disney doesn't mind their product being used to generate clicks at.all. It's in promotion of their product. There's a reason the Disney official twitter/Facebook pages give awful reylo shout-outs despite the fact that TLJ itself is not an explicit romance. Most mainstream viewers in my experience even now still think they're probably related. Hilarious that that's the case at this point regardless of the online obsession with something that so far isn't canon.

You know what the official promotions look like, though, in terms of those produced by LF and not third parties? It's what we got at Celebration, including but not limited to the trailer - no reylo in sight. That was focused on the heroes.

 

Her choosing to help a mass murdering psychopath she’s known for a matter of hours, some of those hours being when he tortured her, is what’s weird. That’s not compassion, it’s lunacy.

I remember seeing TPM opening day and all the fic writers with me knowing there would be fic.
I also knew there would be Finn/Poe the second Poe said “Keep it, it looks good on you.” But just as I never thought there would be Obi Wan/ Darth Maul fic but there was, I never expected Reylo either. Then again, I’ve never gotten the villain/hero pairings anyway. I certainly don’t get them when the villain is turned into a poor woobie who’s just misunderstood.

 

Kylo's a liar, who is also caught up in his emotions.

 

Is he though? I mean I like to think he lied to her and that's a personal opinion. We've never been presented with anything that demonstrates that he is a liar. We've never been given anything that contradicts what he says. I mean I could be misremembering things and I would love to be corrected. However, I can't think of a minute that he has actually told a flat out lie.

 

Johnson said the next movie can get around what his movie said with a 'certain point of view'.

Rian Johnson, writer/director of Star Wars: The Last Jedi: “I can’t speak to what they’re going to do [in Episode IX with Rey's parentage]. And there’s always, in these movies, a question of ‘a certain point of view.’” (December 16, 2017)

Rian Johnson: “I’m not writing the next film, we’ll see how they handle [Rey's parentage] going forward, and as we all know in these movies, there’s always a certain point of view that’s involved.” (December 20, 2017)

Rian Johnson: “Anything’s still open [about Rey’s parentage], and I’m not writing the next film. [J.J. Abrams and Chris Terrio] are doing it.” “With all of these movies, Obi-Wan’s whole speech about a certain point of view always applies, so I think that you have to always think about the context of how information is given. But for me, dramatically, that’s why that reveal at that moment made sense.” (December 31, 2017)

Rian Johnson: “[My circumspection on the topic of Rey's parentage is because] I don’t want to clamp it off with some kind of statement. The same way [Lucasfilm] gave me the freedom to go where I had to go, I had to do the same thing with [my successors working on Episode IX].” (December 21, 2017)

Rian Johnson: “[In terms of retconning Rey’s parentage J. J. Abrams] can do…like I said, man, I want to let go of all my expectations. I want to sit back. I want to be entertained. I want to be surprised. I want to be thrilled. I want him to do stuff that I wasn’t expecting him to do and just go along for the ride. For me, that’s why I go to the movies, you know?” (April 5, 2019)

J. J. Abrams, co-writer/director of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: “I will say [in response to your question if we find out who Rey’s parents are in Episode IX] that we knew going into this that this movie [Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker] it had to be a satisfying conclusion and we were well aware that that’s one of the things that’s sort of been out there. I don’t want to say what happens in Episode VIII, we have honored that, but I will say that there’s more to the story than you’ve seen.” “That was pretty good [as a teaser]. (looks directly at camera)” (April 12, 2019)

Colin Trevorrow, former writer/director of Star Wars: Episode IX: “I’ve seen all of the theories [about Rey’s lineage] and you know I have to practice how to answer these questions. What I do know is that we’re going to make sure that that answer is deeply and profoundly satisfying because Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy and she deserves it. So we’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago, far away, and we’re just telling you what happened.” “I love Rey [she’s my favorite character]. But I love her. And I love what she represents in that universe and where we can take her. It’s pretty incredible.” “What’s interesting is I’m not creating a host of new characters. I have a lot of characters that people really love that we’re going to make sure are all honored. No one’s going to be left behind.” “[I want want the presence of Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher to be even greater in my film. I can’t wait] to find new places that we can take those characters.” “They are icons, but they’re also people that have suffered tremendous loss and challenge over the course of all these films.” “By the time we get to Episode IX, I look at that movie as one movie, as three movies, as six movies, and as nine movies. It’s something that needs to honor a story that has been told over a period of 40 years.” “I don’t want to ignore any of it, and I respect all of it. It’s something I think the fan base is going to embrace.” (January 12, 2016)

 

He did flat-out lie to Hux about how Snoke died

He also practiced deception many times.
1. When he killed his father
2. When he killed Snoke.
3. He was deceptively working for Snoke behind Luke's back.
4. When he lied about Rey's parents (unproven but high probability)

 

Here’s a clear-cut one:

“The girl” didn’t murder Snoke.

There are several other examples of things he’s said which either were/are not true or which he claimed were true but had no basis for saying so. Not the same as a clear lie (not true and he knows it isn’t true) but considering we’ve been told very little about his intentions/motivations, that shouldn’t come as much of a surprise.

 

This. He tries to manipulate her into joining him by playing on her "loneliness" supposedly because he has some sort of feelings for her but then in the next minute he puts a price on her head by telling Hux that she is the one who killed Snoke and I'm supposed to view this is a romance? I absolutely go around blaming people I care for of murder.

 

It was never portayed as a romance in the first place, but you know this.

What the hell happened to platonic bonding? They share a link in the force, possibly destiny. That's as far as it goes, if they were two guys or two girls it'd be the same relationship. Yin-and-yang.

 

Not sure who you are responding to with the "you know this" but if it was me it was not necessary for you to tell me what I know as the context of the conversation I was following WAS discussing the "romance" claim and I was totally being sarcastic.

 

I think Kylo told Snoke something to the effect of, "when the time came I didn't hesitate to kill my father" which we all know isn't true. He didn't just hesitate, he had a whole conversation with his dad and he was visibly conflicted about the whole matter.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't see "visibly conflicted," I saw an angry blank. His conversation was manipulating his father into saber range, then thanking him for letting him run him through, and pushing him off the gantry. I don't care if he's conflicted, HE STILL MURDERED HIS FATHER. Oh, he feels bad about it now? First of all, I don't see an iota of evidence and secondly, to quote Rhett Butler, I don't give a damn.

"Kylo never lies" is something I have seen thrown at Finn fans by some Kylo fans as to why Kylo is better for Rey than Finn because Finn lied to her. How about saying Han would have disappointed Rey? That isn't a lie? Rey killed Snoke, that isn't a lie? He cares about Rey as anything other than a means to more power, that isn't a lie? C'mon, now.

 

I feel like their connection is going to be deep, but not romantic. They have a destiny together that ties into the fate of the galaxy- so it will be interesting enough without exploring any romantic angles. Not that there couldn't be a tiny bit of chemistry along the way. But what made each of them think the other would turn in TLJ was seeing a glimpse of themselves working together on something super important in the future. They didn't have details, but they had that sense this was certainly going to happen. I think they'll come to find out that this is true, but it will happen without either of them "turning', because their destiny is going to involve both the light and the dark having to work together to save the GFFA (balance).