ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Serious question, where is the line between "has to happen because it's happened before in SW" and "great for SW because it's NEW and SW needs change" or "can't happen because it already happened in SW"? Because it kinda seems like that line is wherever it needs to be for supporting Reylo...

 

There is no line beyond one giant circular one encompassing any all perspectives in favor of or against Reylo whose primary reasoning falls primarily around one of those 3 topics, which changes from person to person, and then leads to further discussion and gives the impression of shifting goal posts on both sides of the discussion.

For myself, a Reylo dynamic hasn’t happened in Star Wars at all before so the last option isn’t a perspective I buy into at all. Padmé and Anakin were different based on how things were before his fall but on the broadest of strokes I believe I want a complicated hero and villain dynamic in part because that was always my favorite aspect of the OT and because it’s hard for me to imagine Star Wars without that, but at the same time I’d prefer a dynamic that’s different than parent and child because of how perfect the parent and child story has already been covered in Star Wars before.

 

Its space fantasy, anything can happen.

 

Here are examples
1. Luke being a force ghost. The way he died and it makes sense since Yoda and Obi San did it too. We expect it and it will happen.
2. Hopefully whatever’s new in TROS
3. “Rey....I am your father.” “The force is strong in my family.....:.my sister (Rey) has it.”
The exact circumstances of that is not going to be the same thing of what happen to Luke. That’s not a call back, that’s a blatant copy and paste.

 

So isnt redemption for Kylo a blatant copy and paste too?

 

Redemption and immediate death would be.

 

If it ends up built around non-familial love between them and the execution isn’t exactly the same as a result of the body jumping aspect and him asking her to kill him while Sidious has taken control of him I think it would be different enough.

 

Not if he doesn't die.

 

Then I suppose Rey learning her father is the force ghost of a legendary jedi instead of an evil sith lord would be different enough too.

 

Not against it if done well.

 

Yeah, I think anything is still possible at this point as far as Rey's lineage is concerned. Here's hoping that whatever they do it's done well. I'm not necessarily opposed to Kylo being redeemed either. Reylo on the other hand...

 

Kenobi... the moment Luke saw Rey in TFA she was doing this

 

He had some spare time while being on the nudist planet.

 

Not redeeming Kylo would admittedly be a divergence from the presumed guidelines set by Return of the Jedi's pro-light side ending, with the heroes still triumphing.

I would rather have Kylo die unredeemed than receive unconditional forgiveness by everybody (think Kyp Durron), but I feel as though this would put too much of a damper on what is supposed to be the Skywalker Saga. Yes, Kylo's villainy seems to have no end in sight, and yes, he has chosen evil when given the choice to change, twice if you don't count the TIE Fighter battle.

But to almost literally play Devil's advocate, Vader was roughly as evil as Kylo at his peak. He didn't back down at Padme's pleas, and it took him a long while to be swayed by Luke.
I don't see why Kylo can't be redeemed if executed well. This doesn't mean join the Jedi/Resistance, reconcile and be absolved, or even necessarily live. He doesn't have to die to be redeemed, but he has to be punished in some way that will permanently affect him.

However, the one hurdle to this (I'm not taking credit for this point) is that there isn't anyone with sufficient motivation to care and try to save him. I failed to see this with Rey, and save Force-ghosts (Anakin), I don't know who else can take her place. It's not too late to justify Rey's investment in Kylo's redemption, but they're cutting it close.

Edit: @Jar Jar Skywalker
Just to clarify, I'm not saying I wouldn't be okay with a non-redeemed Kylo dying. I maintain my comments about the Skywalker saga, but that doesn't mean all bets are off to me.

While I do think the theme accompanying Vader's redemption still has a place in the saga, it's also hard to argue Kylo doesn't deserve the worst-case scenario. Redemption isn't earned, it's just a possible bonus at this point. So if either outcome is executed well and with Kylo paying severely, it's okay by me.

 

Vader didn't kill his father though. Anakin didn't even kill Padme.. Kylo is far more evil, and outright rejects and kills his father.

 

Did Anakin force choking Padme not affect her death at all tho? I know Padme "lost the will to live" but still...

 

He killed little Johnny Ozzell's father though.

 

He force drained her .

 

I love this "Anakin didn't kill his father" schtick. What, like he wouldn't have in third-act RotS if he'd had a father and Palpatine had told him to?

It's circumstance. There's no reason Palpatine has for wanting Anakin to kill his parents, he doesn't have any. Instead he sends him to waste anyone with a pulse in the Jedi temple, children included, which Anakin does with barely a beat's hesitation in the moment. That guy wouldn't kill his dad? The same guy who choked out his wife for disagreeing with him politically? Tried in all his earnestness to slay the guy who'd raised him ever since Qui-Gon bit the dust?

C'mon now. There's no moral differentiation here. Ben stabbed Han dead because his evil wizard master told him to. Anakin'd do the same, third-act RotS, if commanded.

Doesn't mean redemption someday's off the cards if it's genuine.

 

[sarcasm]This new ST is soooo messed up and evil & wrong to even consider the possibility of showing someone like Ben Solo making a change away from evil before the end without laughing at him and telling him “Ya should have stayed evil and went out like a true bad ass to the end” and then cutting to him being tortured in a montage that lasts decades! There’s no forgiveness in Star Wars DNA! We don’t want to highlight the true joys of life that villains realize they will now miss and realizing regrets and we certainly don’t want to teach people that once you’ve done anything considered evil that they can stop that. Better to show that there is no turning back or no point in trying to change or turning yourself in or asking for help and admitting what you’ve done so that they realize that once they are tarnished they’re better to just continue to grow in evil and do as much harm as possible all the way to the end.[/sarcasm]

 

Kylo's too much of an unlikeable whiny emo villain for me to want redemption for him.

 

Would also be less dramatic

Luke: I am your father
Rey: OMG *squeels*

Palpatine: I am your father
Rey: NO! THATS IMPOSSIBLE! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

That already happened in TLJ.

 

Well really she is at the random nobody stage now. at least in her mind. the next stage would be either good or bad. and one is drama and the other is just kinda soft within a reveal really. basically verifying fans speculations since 2016 as your big reveal.