ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Harry Potter and MCU movies are still going on - and fitting together.

This is the Rey and Kylo thread - so all comments related to those two.

As for Kylo's redemption - there is no motivating factor or aspect for him to be redeemed except the audience has a relationship with his parents. Not a single story of the good in Ben Solo. There is nothing on screen to show that anyone should have any faith in him being a good person except for his family. The next story showing some good in him would be the first. So for him to turn good because of Rey seems even more ridiculous to me.

Not a good argument at all but bigger picture what's on screen doesn't matter. If the director was driven to show Kylo in the best light like the last director - he'd be redeemed for reasons.

 

Thinking, or being asleep and dreaming about awful things, is literally freedom of thought. Every person is entitled to think about whatever it is they want. It’s not evil until it’s acted upon. By acting on thoughts as though they were real and entering a dark side daze Luke fulfilled every doubt Snoke had likely put into him about the Light side, his family, his purpose for being there, and why they didn’t tell him he was the grandson of Darth Vader with some characteristics reminiscent of him. The movie told us he was scared. Fear lead to hate.

In classic force power irony Luke listening to the dark side to try to stop what might be in order to protect lead to something far worse happening.

 

Re: Han igniting the saber

I am really not a fan of that idea. Han doing this would basically be taking the choice away from Kylo Ren to actually make a change in that moment. What a cruel thing to do to your child. It's basically saying, "I have no faith in you." Not to mention the fact that it still leaves Ben feeling responsible for his father's death, but now coupled with the thought that his father had no faith in him. Plus, it would mean abandoning Leia, who has already lost so much. The whole thing is a hard no-go for me.

I'm not of the opinion that patricide makes Kylo Ren unredeemable anyway. I don't understand the need to re-write his evil acts (the patricide, the school slaughter, the destruction of Hosnian Prime). If he is redeemed, than he needs to own those acts. Isn't that what redemption is about?

 

The only things that we have seen on screen thus far are his struggles against being drawn to the light and his refusal to pull the trigger on Leia’s ship. I am open to the possibility that we might see more in IX that could recontextualize what we have seen.

 

Look. I love Luke too but heroes are capable of a dramatic missteps and mistakes that they later regret that can lead to severe consequences. The origin stories of countless villains in comic books began from a well-intending hero.

Johnson approached the whole thing the right way anyway by making it clear that Luke caught himself but that Ben never felt that way. By focusing on perspective and how the perception of conflict may vary he created an origin story while also showing Luke able to pull himself back from the abyss as he had before. Only this time while experiencing a negative consequence for the earlier choice, rather than a happy ending from being able to pull back.

The perception of nobody in your own family telling you that your dark power draw might be related to the fact that you were actually Darth Vader’s grandson, and wondering why none of them told you and sent you to an uncle/mentor who came to kill you in your sleep (from your perspective) would be a horribly traumatic experience to combine into one thought process. If you were him you could literally believe that they sent you there to be killed because you remind them of the man they destroyed and don’t want connected to their family. That would mess someone up.

 

I absolutely agree with you. It’s no secret that I don’t think the story has set up redemption for any reason besides Kylo’s genetics. In hindsight, Vader’s redemption made sense because of its impact on Luke, the protagonist. The audience knew he was once a hero, a Jedi, Obi’s friend. We knew Luke loved him. Conversely, what do we know about Kylo’s past? He had too much Vader in him. Who loves him that is still around to care? Kylo murdered his own father and is responsible for his uncle’s death. He shrugged at his mother’s “death.” Rey and Kylo are strangers. Who is he supposed to be redeemed for?

Luke’s story fit with redemption. What’s Rey’s? Assuming she isn’t revealed to be related, her story is about non-legacy heroes inheriting the mantle of the story. It’s about how it’s not our genetics that define us, it’s our choices. It’s about how family isn’t about blood, but the people we choose to have in our lives. It’s about putting family first. Her story is not remotely served by detouring on some side quest to redeem a daddy killing psycho because Rey knew and liked his dad that he murdered in cold blood.

 

“This trilogy is about this young generation, this new generation, having to deal with all the debt that has come before,” Abrams says. “And it’s the sins of the father, and it’s the wisdom and the accomplishments of those who did great things, but it’s also those who committed atrocities, and the idea that this group is up against this unspeakable evil and are they prepared? Are they ready? What have they learned from before? It’s less about grandeur. It’s less about restoring an old age. It’s more about preserving a sense of freedom and not being one of the oppressed.” - JJ Abrams

 

Either way she has to defeat him since he’s the head of the FO (thanks to her.)

Whether it’s killing him, incapacitated him or redeeming him, Kylo is her opponent to defeat.

 

Sins of the father = Anakin Skywalker
Wisdom and accomplishments of those who did great things = Luke, Leia, and Han
Those who committed atrocities = Darth Vader, Palpatine

 

I agree. I posted more for the "not trying to restore an old age". Restoring the Republic/Jedi has not worked twice now, its time to "let the past die" and find a new way.

 

Defeat him again? Twice wasn't enough? And if rumors are correct Palpatine is taking over the FO so he's the key one needed to be defeated.

Rey and Kylo? There is no Rey and Kylo nor is there a need.

 

What? Lol if JJ Abrams was saying they’re moving forward without democracy and Jedi heroes, I’ll eat my hat.

 

I cast my vote for President Leia!

 

They will have Jedi and Democracy obviously, but they can't just relegate to what they thought worked in the past. It doesn't work.

 

I don’t know what you’re getting at. The past was democracy + Jedi, and it “worked” for a thousand generations of peace. Our puny little civilization has never accomplished anything so impressive.

 

Since she already beat him twice, this is exactly why some are saying Kylo will be redeemed. (No point in beating him in battle again)

I’ve heard rumors, that much like Rey shipped herself to the FO and helped Kylo kill Snoke.
In TROS, Kylo goes to the Resistance for help in defeating Palpatine instead.

So Rey made the first move in TLJ and in TROS Kylo makes the first move.

 

Again with the idea that Rey and Kylo are somehow equal here. Kylo going to the Resistance for help? With what? Taking out a rival? Or is he good and just wants to defeat evil when he shows up?

 

I'm getting at that in the past 50 years the Republic has fallen twice to an outside group, and darkness has clouded the galaxy. You can't rely on the past, times change in an evolving galaxy.

 

Right but what does that mean? They shouldn’t try to restore a republic that lasted for a thousand generations of peace because of 50 years of Skywalker a-holes? What kind of democracy should they build that’s not a republic?

 

https://worldsgreatestdetective.com/cosmicbook-news/star-wars-episode-ix-first-look/

Take a look at the second picture on the link.

A lot of people believe this picture is Kylo going to see Rey, with Finn, Poe, Threepio and a Chewie there.

Notice Rey has her lightsaber drawn but no ones rushing yet, also the look on everyone’s faces.

 

@devilinthedetails Oh, I agree 100% on that I would love a Prequel to the Sequels. Hopefully that is something we get on Disney+ one day, but I doubt Adam Driver want's to do anything with Ben Solo anymore. He seems pretty content with his three films.

 

no PT to ST with Ben. Otherwise I'd have PTSD. Ah see what I did there.