CT Special edition - worst and best changes

Yeah, that's not what he was saying. He said 3D first and then 4K. That's backwards. Final definitive 4K (or higher resolution) transfers would be finished first, from which 3D would emerge.

4K first. 3D second.

 

I definitely agree they shouldn't be bright blue. I was thinking they should be more blue-gray like in that TPM shot I posted. But as I continue to look at the new grading in those shots I'm getting more used to it and liking it more. I still think everything could stand to be a little more saturated (not too much, but more).

 

I like more muted colours, they look more real to me. First thing I do on most video games is turn the saturation down.

 

No, it isn't.

The 4K restorations would be the basis for both the 3D, 2D and any later actual 4K release.

These 4K's were not meant for any imminent release and have come out now almost 10 years since they were started.

4K masters? Yes. Definitive to the last detail home video versions? No because there was no way to know what Lucas would do when the time came to actually release them.

I have not heard that he did any final overview before these were released on Disney+.

 

That's a good point. Has there been any official details about the Disney+ versions of the movies?

 

Apart from the fact that, as far as GL was concerned, there was likely no definitive versions except for the last time he worked on them, no we can't know if the 4K versions had all the changes he had planned for their release or not. My point was however that all the changes likely would have been made before they moved onto the 3D conversion process.

 

Of course we can know. GL or someone at Lucasfilm just has to tell us.

My guess is these are the completed versions that would have never been converted into 3D. Surely GL finished the remastering process before stepping away. And if these are the last time GL tinkers with his movies, that would make them the final cuts.

One way or the other we will know if the 4k versions had all the changes he had planned.

 

It completely depends upon how GL's process worked - did he make a list at the start of each process, or did he do it as he went? If it was the latter, only GL would know, and given that he never saw the process as complete, his answer would probably be "no".

 

We know GL went through all six movies frame by frame making a list of all the changes he wanted to make. This process was completed. The proof is the creation of the book Star Wars Frames.


And it's my understanding he went through all six films then looked at everything and finalize his list of changes to the entire saga. After everything was in place is when work started on remastering the Prequels for 3D transfer. And while the prequels were being converted to 3D, the remastering of the OT was happening.

 

I don't think I've heard this about him going through each film and making a definitive list of changes post-2011 (it would seem to go against his philosophy of them never really being completed). I'm fairly sure the Frames book is based upon the 2004 version, not the 2011.

 

The process happened between 2008 and 2010, taking about two years with weekly meetings to review the films. Frames the book came out in January 2011. I think the book uses the new masters of the prequels for stills. The OT remaster wasn't ready yet and uses images from 2004. But the overall list of changes for the saga was finished.

After that Lucas could step away and let others work on restoration and changes.

George Lucas wanted to do a round of changes on all the films as Saga. He committed to setting time once a week to review the films. Frames came out of this process as an bonus. He didn't spend two years making just the book.

 

Do you have a source on this (not saying I don't believe you have just never heard it before)?

It's believable that he used this process, but I still doubt that he ever considered them to be the absolute final changes.

 

Source - this was a fairly common rumor with info about the 4K versions of the OT. In 2015 there was a lot of info saying these new versions would be the digital cuts.

Some of this info came out with new on the 3D prequels too. This was all part of the same process. Since about 2012 word was these new 4K scans were finished and waiting somewhere unreleased. I don't recall any of this ever being confirmed by Lucasfilm.

I'm not saying they were meant to be the 'final changes' or definitive cuts. They were meant to be the best versions of the movie yet. And they were meant to be editions looked at systemically as an entire saga.

 

This is interesting. The Blu-ray color grading has the Death Star as more of a straight gray. The Disney+ version gives it a reddish tint:

Blu-ray:

Disney+:


Blu-ray:

Disney+:


Blu-ray:

Disney+:

 

That's from light reflecting off the planet Yavin. Makes perfect sense.... I'm kidding.

The Disney+ version looks fine to me. The engines aren't over blown. The red in the cockpits pops more. Over all the quality of the picture and color is less soupy.

 

Hmmm well, on the one hand, I like that the engine lights are no longer oversaturated. But I'm not really a fan of how the Death Star sometimes pushes up into magenta. And the 2011 BD looks grey at times, but cyan at other times when the saturation is higher. If I had to guess, I'd say lower saturation on the Death Star to achieve a greyer look is probably how the original color grading was.

 

Strange that such a decision would be made for the 4K versions.

 

It's rather subtle in first two screen captures.

And color grading isn't about seeing stills from the movie on an internet forum. It's how does it look on movie or tv screen in the dark with our eyes adjusted.

 

Whenever colors look strange on a modern Star Wars home release, I usually chalk it up to a logistical issue of time or money, or both. It's important to note that when these new remasters were initially completed, the color grading was not done. RelianceMedia only graded it for their own internal purposes (I guess to have the colors in such a position where they could easily spot things that needed repairing/cleaning for their restoration efforts). That said, I have no idea when the color grading for these was actually done, or what time frame the colorist had.

 

While the new color grading is overall pretty faithful to the theatrical color timing, and it seems the 1997 SE prints were used as a color reference, there are a number of quality issues like this. The most prominent one is Vader's panel button and lights on his belt being bright blue rather than greenish in a number of scenes, most obviously in the Leia interrogation scene. I should add, that the theatrical releases (1977 and 1997) for ANH were notoriously inconsistent with the Death Star being blue in one scene, and gray or greenish in another with magenta color noise popping up throughout the film. Consequently, in several scenes in the 1997 release the Death Star does look magenta/bluish, which may explain what we see here.

 

IMO a good example of where being a little less faithful to the theatrical colors would actually have been a good thing. Even with oversaturated engine lights, the Blu-ray shots just plain look better and are definitely more faithful to to the intended coloration of the Death Star. The Death Star should be cold and gray. There definitely shouldn't be any warmth to it.

I have to agree with @theMaestro. While superior overall to the Blu-ray grading, it feels like aspects of this release were also rushed, as if they just used the SE prints as a guide but didn't bother to go through and make any minor aesthetic tweaks afterwards to avoid stuff like this. Too bad there's probably no possibility for that to happen going forward.

 

They are still an overwhelming improvement.

 

Out of all the BluRay VS Disney+ screenshot comparisons that have been posted in the last few pages, I literally prefer every single BluRay version...

 

That's what makes things like this, where the Blu-rays were actually superior in some ways, so annoying.

Incidentally, what does everyone think of this?

Blu-ray:



Disney+:



And, just for an interesting comparison, a screenshot from Harmy's Despecialized Edition (pulled from YouTube):



For my money, the Disney+ grading goes too far in correcting the Blu-ray. I think Harmy's is closer to how it should be. The vegetation should be more of a vivid green (as opposed to the yellowish-green of the Disney+ versions) and there should be blue sky visible between the clouds. Yavin 4 should be happy and green and bright with life, contrasting against the cold gray lifelessness of the Death Star. The Disney+ version comes across to me as too faded and gray and gloomy, muddling this contrast.The Blu-ray colors may be a bit unnatural, but they at least come closer to communicating the right idea.

 

Of the official versions, the 2011 Blu-ray for that shot looks too saturated, while Disney+ looks too desaturated. That being said, I personally am able to tolerate desaturation more than oversaturation. The way I look at it, low saturation can have a filmic charm to it whereas there's no good context to view oversaturation under. Plus, I see it more as "It needs more saturation to be better" (so it's simply falling short of what's ideal) whereas I see oversaturation as "The excess saturation is actively harming the look". Of the two, I prefer when it slightly falls short vs. there being active harm to the image.

The Harmy version of that shot looks nice. And speaking of fan projects, that entire community is why I don't really mind if the official versions have some flaws. I don't think any official version was ever going to be perfect. But the fact is, we're probably going to get a high bitrate 4K home release of these new remasters that people can then color correct to their liking.