ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Ben had already thrown out his ties by fighting his way through Imperial forces on Exegol.

 

This just makes me hate Kylo even more. Screw that guy, Han deserved better.

 

When did Kylo become a force ghost?

And regardless of the message they thought they were sending, the message they sent was one chock full of white male entitlement and abuse apologism. I choose not to buy it.

 

He faded away immediately after death. Regular Jedi who don't become Force Ghosts, don't do that (see AOTC, ROTS, etc).

 

Yoda faded right after his death what do you mean?

 

Throwing his red saber into the sea was that moment - but non-verbal.

Sorry - I missed a word. Should have had a "don't". there. Most of the Jedi we see die in AOTC and ROTS, we also see corpses of.

 

I think color is irrelevent in Star Wars. Please name one instant in any of the films where color is used to differentiate amongst human characters.

I dont understand the pro abuse claims. I never saw any of that, and the news came to me only when i came on this board after the film. We are dealing with a good vs evil tale. Is every filmmaker who ever told such a tale now guilty of "pro abuse"?

 

We often argue about messages being good or bad, but this really spoke to me: the good moments of light in life can be fleeting and you need to make the most of them.

 

His body disappeared the way the bodies of all other people who became Force ghosts in the saga did. Yoda, Luke, Leia...

I do not see how that is the case. The message was that unconditional love redeemed him when he made the ultimate sacrifice, like his grandfather. There is no condoning of abuse in that message. He happens to be white and male because he is Han and Leia’s son.

 

It is an absurd and ridiculous argument propagated by a small minority of people who think that they are onto something and so cannot let it go.

 

But he wasn't ever wrong. He thought he was right all along, and that's all that matters. Vader knew he was wrong when he was doing bad things, he just thought he was beyond the point of no return.

When you have a victim of torture and violation and countless other acts of abuse kiss her abuser, then yes, you are guilty of pro-abuse messaging.

Imagine if JB played Kylo and SW tossed aside a healthy and positive white/white relationship in favor of the white hero kissing her black abuser who had also killed sooooo many people...

And Leia's body didn't disappear immediately and she became a force ghost.

 

After Rey defeats Kylo Ren on the Death Star ruins, I see him acknowledge through his memories that he was wrong. “I know what I have to do, I just don’t know if I have the power to do it.” Han touches his face..

“ Ben...
“ Dad....
“ I know....

In that moment he acknowledged his parents, was definitely contrite and remorseful, and then Ben Solo then throws his Sith Lightsaber away, and the next time we see him he has the blaster Lando gave him as a kid (per the visual dictionary) and immediately confront the group he formerly led (KoR) on Exegol.

 

Not instantly - but it did disappear, and we only saw her ghost after the disappearance.

 

That scene between Harrison and Adam both in TROS and TFA were probably both the best of the trilogy in my opinion

 

Perhaps in your own head. While i felt the execution of this entire film was messy and unfocused(especially the ending), if we take Reys character as a whole i would not call her a victim at all. I saw her more as a compassionate hero.

 

ditto

 

But you consistently ignore the inconvenient truth that this movie makes pains to illustrate that she does not kiss the "abuser", i.e. the Kylo Ren element of this dual-natured character, but the Ben Solo element, now wholly restored to his former nature.

I am wondering if this intransigence in not acknowledging what is played out on screen so obviously is deliberate.

 

I don’t want to derail the topic too much with HP.

Lily did know about him. She continued to talk to him after he cracked a branch over Petunia’s head. That’s why she still talked to him when he was housed in Slytherin and she knew he had a passion for the dark arts. She questioned him, but she confirmed they were still best friends even when he was creating spells and hanging out with Mulciber and Avery. It wasn’t until he called her a Mudblood that she stopped talking to him. But even then she said “I’ve made excuses for you for years” which implies she turned a blind eye for quite some time.

But your argument was for unconditional love. I don’t understand how him having a developed relationship with her before makes it better? Seems worse, to me. More of a betrayal. And when he turns back, it’s not because he truly believes he was wrong, it’s only because of Lily.

Kylo/Ben ends up turning for himself, and others benefit from it.

 

She was waiting for Ben. She did not disappear until he did.

 

Those are good moments.

Harrison Ford gives such a great performance.

Rey and and Kylo in Snokes throne room. That was edge of your seat gripping imo.

 

I really like when Adam Driver raises his voice. He doesn’t do it very often in the series, but the couple times he does... damn, it’s emotionally weighted and powerful.

“no...no.. you’re still... HOLDING ON! Let go”



And my favorite, “blow that piece of junk... OUT OF THE SKY!”

 

Im baffled at the hate Rian gets. He made a beautiful film. He was not afraid to push and evolve the characters.

He should have directed this entire trilogy.

 

Kylo killing Snoke almost broke my jaw

 

Agreed. I felt that the actor’s were actually at their strongest in TLJ.

And the writing is so good. I can’t get over seeing Kylo’s lightsaber spin around on the ground- and that being what gives him the idea. It’s so subtle and flows smoothly when he does the move with his hand... It was awesome.

I’ll never seen the benefit of having so many people work on the same story.