Lit A/V Star Wars Episode IX: Duel of the Fates

Although the DOTF story is sort of doing its own thing compared to TROS, I guess one could argue the Bonadan scenes have parallels with Kijimi (Poe's sketchy Kijimi friends who have some vague connection to the spice trade) and to a lesser extent, Pasaana (but maybe only the big cultural fest and looking for clues on a long quest). It's also sort of in the middle area of the film, in the Pasaana/Kijimi part.

 

True. Atm I am considering it takes place before passana and replace the mortis location with the wayfinder location

 

hahaha neat!



anyway, Esquire did a review of Duel of the Fates and they seemed to like it for the First Order execution stuff though.

 

that image has me wish for a post credits scene with Hux playing the SW Arcade game and loosing set in the 80s... concurrent with The Last Starfighter winning a game next to him... hehehe

 

When I read the evolution of the script I see a few things

1. A narrowing down of events probably to save on money, sets and time and streamline the story, I mean do we really need Tor Valum only for him to die halfway through just so Kylo can learn a new skill...If he learns a new skill just have it learn it on his own.

2. Eventually getting a Third Villain so Kylo can go the redemption route and not just die evil or in the First Draft case a weird last minute change of heart.

3. Brining in Abrams who gets the Ethos of Star Wars at least and then replacing original new Villain with Palpatine.

 

At least they kept Ben on the destructive side of the Force despite his redemption. So the Force Dyad remained balanced. He was willing to destroy Palpatine and only saved Rey, saved what he loved. Kinda like Vader or Jacen Solo he chose redemption but only to normal healthy levels of destruction the Force allows, not the over the top ones the Sith and Darksiders chose to imbalance it.

 

I'm not sure what you are talking about here

And what do you mean by "Normal Healthy Levels of Destruction" You mean like if a natural tidal wave comes in compared to evil Sith spells.

Also I think you and I may have different interpretations of the Dyad but I'm not sure since I've been out of it when it comes to TROS for a while.

 

Yes I think we interpret the Dyad different from what I saw in your posts across the board.

We agree that it is a strong, the strongest Forcebond given the abilities it can unlock. Where we disagree is, I think, if a Dyad is between light and dark halves, or two light halves, or if it does matter or not what alignment the dyad partners have.

F.e. Palpatine and the Sith wanted to create a Dyad between two darksiders, Master & Apprentice via the Rule of Two. They failed.

I do agree that a Dyad needn't be two opposite halves like light and dark. But I say that is what Rey and Ben were. Even if he renounced his dark self in the end and redeemed kinda, we see clear differences/opposites in Rey and Ben even when they are working together in TROS. In TLJ they were dark/light opposites, quite clearcut. In TROS, it is in the details. Rey deflects Sovereign Protector blasts and uses only defensive moves, never attack moves. Only reflecting their blasts back to them, never striking herself. Ben on the other hand, while doing the same until he got the lightsaber, once he got it, he goes on the offense, killing and slaughtering the Knights of Ren like his old self. He is a Force of Destruction. Yet not a dark one. He does not do it over the top or for personal gain but to save Rey, to help, kinda his means are good, yet his methods are destructive. Only once the Knights are dealt with does he return to a calmer self next to Rey.

Therefore, he still is a force of destruction, the "natural" dark side, not the over the top Sithy one. He found his inner balance. Like Rey found hers. My comment you quotes was refering to all that. Hope it makes more sense now?

The brilliance of TROS is, that it did both: It kept the balance between light and darkness via the Rey/Ben Dyad paralells/opposites described above, while at the same time using the light to destroy the darkness i.e. Palpatine.

You might disagree with the grey-ish aspect as you called it elsewhere, but I think both our views are present in TROS and actually work interwoven.

Thinking back to Mortis and the trinity, maybe this helps:

Think of the trinity as a triangle, Rey & Ben are the dyad. So long it is imbalanced, the third party can control it and manipulate it. If the two are in balance working together though, they are set free and can keep the third party under control and in balance if it wants to or not.

What you would refer to as the Light winning over the Darkness, I would call the Balance between natural light(creation)&darkness(destruction) winning over the unnatural over the top Darkness that the Sith represented.

It's like looking at the above triangle from different points of view but seeing the same thing! One looks at it from the side and sees two people on the same side, and Palpatine on the other. Others look at it from the bottom and see the two opposite sides of the dyad together working against Palpatine.

Maybe our differences are ones of terminology and point of view only?

So yes, as you said yourself, natural healthy levels of destruction like a tidal wave.

Thx for giving me the opportunity to hopefully clear this up a bit more. Let me know what you think now!

 

@Sinrebirth

I didn't want to derail the Outlived Children discussion so I'll just transfer that talk here

I agree I'd keep Coruscant and the Finn/Rose/Poe stuff.

I'd sorta merge the Mortis/Exegol stuff in a way...Like Kylo thinks he's doing one thing Mortis but in the end he gets owned and finds out he's just helping Palpatine.

I know I had one idea I had (For my own merging story) where he does meet Palpatine but actually kills the physical body allowing Palpatine to enter Kylo's, he doesn't control him but just festers knowing Kylo is gonna go to Mortis for a mission....In my own little merger story Kylo plan was to "Change the Balance" so that the Darkside was natural and the Lightside wasn't just so he could "Be free of his pain" of the light.

But that's my own little weird merger of the Two Stories.

@ColeFardreamer

Okay I took a read

It's possible...I don't think that the Dyad is necessary Light and Dark in how we think of them Light Side, Dark Side.

I think the problem maybe just stems from the addition of "Light Side" at all as a name...in the OT there was never a "Light Side" it was always THE FORCE...and The Dark Side.

Like the Son (From Mortis) he is part of the Force, for he is death, but death is naturally evil....Evil being "The Darkside"

If the Dyad is somehow (Or possible retconned) into being connected to the whole Son and Daughter thing, then I think the Dyad is more of just a powerful bond between two very powerful Force Users. I think the Bond actually has to do with ones personal feelings as well, be it love, respect, or something in terms of a bond. A real bond...Not something artificial like Palpatine and the Sith tried to create with the Rule of Two.

In fact I think in some ways that was JJ point with Kylo dying (And the Novelization makes it clear) it's two people becoming one....Rey and Ben are now one person...(Not in a literal sense but the spiritual metaphorical sense) Ben is one with the Force along with all the Jedi, Rey is all the Jedi...Rey is the Avatar.

I defiantly agree with this part...Though Star Wars has never made it clear how much "Darkness" is naturally part of the world or in Star Wars the terms Darkness and Evil are just synonymous with one another. ...I don't even know if Destruction is darkness....For destruction is a natural part of creation, and maybe even part of the light.

In Star Wars i see Darkness (again in the concepts of Star Wars) as holding onto life...Creating UN-NATURAL life...Ala Palpatine clone bodies and a few of those old Sith creatures from legends.

But that's more of a terminology issue which sadly I don't think Star Wars really clarifies depending on the other even if the concepts are still pretty much the same.

 

You could keep Rey Solana in easily. Palpatine's son took up the last name 'Solana' to remain hidden.

 

I agree more or less with the Palpatine-Mortis-Exegol stuff...Cuz I would want the final battle between Rey and Ben be against Palpatine in a weird Father, Daughter, Son sorta tryad thing...But not to just "Poof...Now it's Palpatine" without some sorta build up to it in the middle.

 

Possibly. After all, Kylo could be a combination of Skywalker and Solo, although I doubt that's the reason Ben chose that name.

 

Maybe Solana was the maiden name of Rey's mother?

I like all your merger ideas. And while I'd prefer Finn at Coruscant with Rose, that would require to alter movie lore. I still kinda love my fix to have Finn and Rose set the Coruscant missions first half up, happening pre-TROS and then hand it off to other characters like Neeku and Tam Rivora. Who too are FO deserter and mechanic and share the same dynamic as Rose and Finn kinda. A neat takeover. You could even stretch their intermezzo Coruscant mission so that the endgame still is Finn and Rose returning to Coruscant post TROS to finish what they started. Yet the entire fleets come and converge on Coruscant, from Maz, Lando and others etc. and sets off to Exegol must have happened already by then.

As for Mortis, I think the merger works best if we structure Duel of the Fates, TROS and other additions like a trilogy kinda. You got the first half of Duel of the Fates as Part 1, set pre-TROS. Then TROS kicks in with couple additions throughout it. Then you have part of Duel of the Fates running paralell with other characters in certain roles, and major characters and Mortis worked into TROS. And last but not least an outro kinda post TROS set concurrent to the finale victory montage with battles won all over the galaxy, where we have most space that can be added to fiddle in lots of Legends folks and explain their absence or how they helped elsewhere and indirectly.

 

I think its possible to keep rose and finn on coruscant for all of dotf.

if you assume that the resistance always planned on calling the core worlds, even before tros, the scenes with finn and rose activating the temple beacon can fit before tros, with the beacon only being used when lando arrives. The rest would take place during the outro, with the allied fleet arriving late.

Another possibility is keeping everything until the beacon is activated pre tros, the scenes before lando arrives right before exeghol and the rest during the outro.

 

@ColeFardreamer

Quite frankly in my perfect world the Sequel Trilogy is 4 movies

Movie 3 is when you make Kylo the big bad villain and then he is "Defeated" not killed but "Defeated" thus leaving him broken and realizing this villain thing isn't working out

Then Movie 4 is when you bring in Palpatine (Maybe hint at him through movie 3 and then reveal him at the end) and then you do your Rey and Ben v Palpatine final battle....Maybe on Mortis or Exegol...IDK.

Like you'd almost split Kylo stuff to his arc up to the Death Star duel is one movie and the a whole other movie against Palpatine.

 

Given Ring Theory, my ST stays 3 movies, no more possible. But I'd merge Duel of the Fates and other needed materials around TROS like Labyrinth of Evil and another book formed a trilogy around/with Revenge of the Sith.

Titlewise, this minor trilogy, with centerstage taken by TROS, might be...

1) Duel of the Fates
2) The Rise of Skywalker
3) A Final Alliance

Third part named for the galactic alliance that Landos fleet is and ended the war galaxywide while heroes focused on the big bad. Also, the title nicely rhymes with ring theory and The Phantom Menace and A New Hope, closing the saga off on the notes it began in reverse.

 

Yeah but eventually you gotta ask yourself when you gotta ditch ring theory and just tell a good story.

I guess for me Resistance Reborn could fit in some ways...But i guess since Kylo isn't a factor.

In terms of titles I'm calling my merger Balance of the Force.

The idea is Kylo wants to "Change the Balance" so that the Darkside is natural and he doesn't have to feel bad about being a darksider since then "Hey being a darksider is natural now...No more light pain" only to realize he's getting punked by Palpatine whose gonna change the Balance and do...Evil Palpatine things...(This is a work in progress but I have written some stuff down)

(Addendum)

I would follow TCW's route and just do a Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo show....if The Clone Wars is 7 Seasons in a 3 year period...Then Resistance-First Order war is...3 seasons worth of TV...Maybe 4.

 

Never gonna ditch ring theory, it is what SW is founded on, it is as essential and ingrained into it as Joseph Campbell, John Williams and likewise. One might even say it is essential to telling a good story.

 

Not really....George only says that to make excuses for the fact that Return of the Jedi was supposed to be Sequel Trilogy but he got tired and wanted to quit.

Ring Theory never really became a thing until Phantom Menance and even I think George is kinda making excuses in some cases.

Star Wars founded upon, luck, chance, mixing a bunch of different stuff together and praying to the good movie gods that it would work.

George wanted to do TWELVE movies once remember.

 

We still will get 12, just wait for it

As final as TROS or our whatever looking merger of it and DotF were, how could one reasonably well put another trilogy after it, set 10-30 years later?

Any open cues they could build it upon? Any leftover plotlines?

The Skywalkers are done, Palpatine is done. What is left to connect all movies to another trilogy? Who could Rey Palpatine Skywalker pass the torch to, what could she die for, peaceful or otherwise?

We still do not know what loved one Plagueis saved from death... Palpatine? Snoke? Tor Valum? Else?

But the world needs to be ready for the final trilogy and it is not yet. George always mirrored some worldly events and big changes and was ahead of his time with it. I could see some scenarios but most fans probably currently would not yet believe me.

 

In a strange way making Rey a Palpatine actually could lead to some interesting parallels when we get a 12.

Think about it.

If the ST was a homage to the Original Trilogy then the Sequel Sequel Trilogy...SST (???) should be more of a homage to the Prequel.

. Instead of a Palpatine trying to take down a republic you have a Palpatine (Rey) trying to help bring up a Republic.

.Instead of a Jedi Order falling from Dogma and stigmatism you have a Jedi Order rising into even greater spiritualism and mystique (You can do the Mortis stuff then)

. You can also do the "Free the Slaves" stuff that Episode 1 touched on and never really did anything with as well.

This is a good video going into detail about what 10-12 could be about