Lit If Darth Caedus Survived

How would the story have changed post-LOTF if Caedus had survived? Survived as in "defeated, captured then escaped". I always felt he could have been a great reoccurring antagonist and it wasn't fair that all the Skywalker blood was on the Jedi side. Basically I think killing him off was a big mistake.

A few retcons that I think would help. Let's make it so he never has that Throne of Balance/Darth Krayt/Jedi Queen vision that FOTJ gave him postmortem and have it so that Caedus fails to change the future in Invincible. These would help push him to escape and continue his crusade.

 

Paging @Sinrebirth !

 

So Jacen would have flirted with Boba Fett while still trying to defeat the crazy Jedi, Forcepowers or not showing his true talent and that he does not even need the Force to do that?

 

I wish we could have gotten Force Ghost Jacen/Caedus in the Legacy comics.

 

I would have ended it with Jacen coming back from the dark side, realizing how badly he messed up and begging forgiveness.

Han gives him the Falcon and then he and Leia retire from adventuring so much.

Jacen takes the Falcon and somehow gets that droid version of Anakin that the Correlians were trying to use to restart Centerpoint as his copilot.

He changes his name to Kane (pulling out an old Lucas reference there) and basically wanders the galaxy trying to help people while he sorts himself out.

 

I don't see him being forgiven that easily, especially by Luke, but I'd have also redeemed him eventually.

I don't think he'd be as trusted again by Han and Leia, even if they forgive him.

The sad thing is that it would be hard to portray him as redeemed and have him not face justice for his war crimes.

I'd probably have him die to redeem himself like Vader. That way he'd get good, peaceful closure within a believable framing.

 

1) There is no way he remains Chief of State.
2) Making all of his actions the result of Abeloth strips Caedus of his agency. He goes from good man who does terrible things for the greater good and turns him into a sad puppet.

 

Personally, I don't think a redemption arc would work for Jacen. I don't think he'd even want "redemption".

In Betrayal, Jacen admits that his life as a Jedi felt purposeless. When he starts down the Sith path he finds new drive and passion. He seemingly liked being a Sith Lord. Why would he give that new life up just to go back to the life he was unhappy with?

Jacen does terrible things in the hopes of building a better world. He think's he only one with the will to make those choices. He's aware of his actions and the consequences to himself and others. And he accepts them. Jacen has no doubts about himself or what's he doing.

Jacen would never give up after one defeat, Luke wouldn't. Jacen would try again, even if that meant doing it by himself and starting from scratch.

 

That sounds ghoulish.

 

The dark side or death are really the only viable options for Jacen characterwise post LOTF.

 

Well I think Jacen/Caedus is in a sense like Revan using the dark side, grow powerfull to protect people, prevent even worse suffering. Revan got redeemed so I don´t see why Jacen could not, if he like Revan would come to realize that he clearly went too far.

You could say that exact same things about Revan and again he got redeemed.

 

That isn't the same. The Jedi Council wiped Revan's mind and reprogrammed him with a new identity. You could say Revan died and somebody else was using his form.

 

Well if Jacen where to repent and get rid of his Ceadus persona that would essentially be a new person as well. And Revan still stay in the light even after his memory came back. And I guess worse darksiders then Jacen have been redeemed in SW, so I wouldn´t say that someone, bar maybe Palpatine and Vitiate is completly ireedemable.

 

It depends on what you mean by survive? I don't think Caedus works as some sort of recurring baddie. He's either a dark protagonist or he is the big bad.

Personally I find the notion if Caedus had prevailed in Invincible to be a fascinating point of divergence. A triumphant Caedus who has shattered every attempt to take him down is a menacing villain for that alone.

As for redemption. I'm of the opinion he'd have to be stripped of the force and either end up in exile a la Ulic or in prison for his crimes.

 

which part?

 

I would have liked for the books set in the next 30 years post-LOTF to be set in Caedus's New Empire. Probably that would have meant a lot of disgruntled fans saying that's not what Star Wars should be, though.

Also, an imprisoned/powerless Caedus would have been interesting. Too many works go for the redemption equals death route (Vader, Snape) and don't deal with the awkwardness of a criminal having to exist in the world where their victims won.

 

Jacen flying about with a copy of his dead brother. Imagine Tahiri getting into a relationship with Dab Hantaq due to him looking like Anakin. It's creepy.

 

When I said reoccuring, I meant that while other antagonists may come and go (die), Darth Caedus is the main antagonist of the series.

It was a mistake for the writers to kill him off.

I highly doubt either of those options would stop Caedus. If they put him in prison he will break himself out. If he's stripped of the force, he can still train an apprentice to take his place (like Ulic).

 

Or the "Jedi turns to the dark side, is defeated, and goes back to being a Jedi". Why does Caedus have to be redeemed? Why can't he be unrepentant about his actions, seeing them as necessary to the greater good? Going back to the Jedi would feel more like character reversion than progression.

 

I really expected him to be striped of the force just like Ulic.

It would have been really good to see a 'redemption' style story with Jacen as hermit.

Also Jacen was as redeemable as vader was at the end. So if anyone wanted to save him they could have.

 

How long do you want him to be the villain? Jacen either needs to win or be stopped relatively quickly.

So does that mean you think he should have ended Invincible sitting triumphant on Coruscant? On the run with his loyalists? Discredited due to knowledge of his sordid deeds coming to public attention? An idea of what you imagine would be very helpful.

I disagree. If we are assuming he is redeemed that is. If he isn't redeemed, then capturing him is basically impossible. Or at least not practical. If he is redeemed he won't be doing either of the things you say, and if he isn't he won't be liable to be captured or exiled to start with.

 

The larger problem, is what does Jacen 'winning' look like? What exactly was his end goal? To stop something from happening, right? This is an impossible task. Just because you stop something now, it doesn't follow that you've stopped it from happening tomorrow. So....from the beginning, Jacen's goal was never attainable. Better written, this would have been a compelling story as Jacen realizes he could never guarantee a successful outcome. With this realization, he would have had to either change tack and simply wiped out the Secessionist threat to create a unified government again....or resign as Chief-of-State and go into self-exile. As it was, they tried to make it a conventional 'good v. evil' story....which, I think, is why the plot focus of LotF changed so much...the goal kept moving.