ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

In your opinion. Imo it was what it was. It wasnt dropped it just didn't turn out to be what you wanted so you got upset. Imo The Force Awakens end with Han sets up the next film where Kylo Ren will be featured more heavily and in depth with Rey, seeing that we know the bad guys want Luke dead and Rey is with Luke. Imo it would be a stretch to nix all that stuff. The Force Awakens sets up the events of The Last Jedi.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying is just my opinion. It's not my opinion that Rey and Finn developed a deep emotional bond in TFA. That played out on screen and is factually fundamental to that narrative. It is not normal to spend so much time developing an emotional bond between the two primary heroes just to then ignore it in the sequels. That would be like Luke not caring about Han and Leia in ESB, as in not rescuing them or thinking of them. That would be like Anakin barely remembering Padme in AotC, and being casual acquaintances with Obi. It doesn't make sense. There is no narrative point to build a deep bond just for it to then be meaningless in the story. TFA should have been written very differently if it was intentionally leading into TLJ.

 

I don't see anyone saying friendship isn't the basis of a healthy romantic relationship. Only that friendly overtures alone don't result in romantic relationships.

If you say so... I don't see it, personally. It reads to me more like wishful thinking on the part of people hostile to Rey and Kylo having something between them.

They embrace as friends who've been apart and are now finally back together? Like many reunion moments in the OT.

I would argue, if romantic tension exists anywhere at the end of TLJ, it's between Rey and Poe. But even then, maybe RJ was just teeing-up Episode IX for the next director.

 

There is a misunderstanding of the term as I can see, because this isn't about whether it is healthy or possible that Finn being Rey's friend could lead to romance, but the fact that any romantic affections were very one way and completely unrequited. Rey just did not return any sort of romantic notions back towards Finn. The hug at the end of TLJ doesn't ascribe any further romance between them.

In fact, what actually happens at the end of TLJ is that if any romance is to be hinted at, it is between her and Poe on the Falcon, in that brief "I know" exchange.

@kylokrennic beat me to it - ninja'd

 

Only it isn't ignored, it just doesnt take center stage. Rey, luke, and kylo....that was always going to take center stage. Luke was always going to be featured. Any fan thinking otherwise is kidding themselves, imo.

The events of The Last Jedi were set up by the prior film.

Rey is with Luke. Kylo Ren and Snoke want Luke dead.

 

"Always going to" is an opinion and interpretation. That TFA made Rey and Finn's bond centrally important to the narrative isn't an opinion. It's just a fact of the story.

Luke being featured doesn't negate Rey continuing to be motivated by Finn any more than Yoda being in ESB negated Luke deeply caring for his friends. Ditto for Kylo being in the story.

No TLJ was not set up by TFA in my opinion or in the opinion of TFA's editors.

 

So you realistically think that Luke and Mark Hamill were not going to be featured heavily? That TFA and "omg we must find Luke omg we got a map to Luke" didn't mean he was going to be of some prominence?

Let's take a look at the facts:

-Finn is knocked out

-Rey is with Luke

-kylo is going to see snoke.

Tfa literally tells us where the story is heading.

 

I said nothing about how much Luke would be featured because it's totally irrelevant.

I've looked at those facts. They don't negate the importance of an emotional bond between the heroes, as I keep stating over and over. Stories build emotional hooks because that's how they keep the audience invested.

 

Which is still there. They are separated and Finn wants to find Rey. That's the first thing that comes to his mind. It just isn't as important as the central story revolving around Rey, kylo, luke, smoke, and the force.

 

It's not there at all on Rey's end. Hence, it was dropped.

 

If Luke was going to feature heavily, then it's likely the island was, too. They didn't just scout that hard-to-reach location for nothing. That means that Rey was likely going to be stuck there a while, given the magnitude of Luke's character and how everyone was desperate to find him -- yet, as TFA informs us, he had gone into hiding/exile. It's like a triangulation of things very deliberately moving the story in that direction. It was even stated by Kylo that Rey envisioned the island, and that it effectively kept her going in those lonely nights on Jakku.

I can't comment on the other elements so much. Who knows how JJ and his team would have handled the story? But they did choose, as has been pointed out, to have Finn unconscious at the end of TFA. Add that to the mix of Rey going to the island and it seems they were probably going to be separated for a good chunk of the story. Much as the characters are split up in the middle chapters of the PT and OT. What Rian Johnson may have done is just amp up that separation all the more. He didn't have to reunite them only at the end of the final act. Feels like it was deliberately dragged out. Either way, I can't see them having as much screen-time together as they had in TFA.

 

It wasnt dropped because its present in the film it just isn't the focus of the picture. You may not like the way it was handled but it's still there.

 

The friendship isn’t one way though, both Rey and Finn form a friendship for the other, it goes both ways. That’s the aspect I’m taking about. When people use the term ‘friendzoned’ they are taking the friendship aspect out of the romantic relationship. That to me doesn’t make sense, because any romantic relationship on some level requires friendship.

In TFA Rey and Finn form a friendship, at the end of TLJ they reaffirm this friendship with the hug at the end, it’s the big emotional moment at the end of the film. It certainly leads to the potential for romance in the last film, though it didn’t happen.

 

The film doesnt even ignore it. Kylo further hurts Rey after snoke is killed. It's an emotional moment. She is crushed. We are supposed to despise kylo Ren here, he takes on the throne of supreme leader over Reys helping hand.

There isn't. A closer comparison would be Padme and anakin. It we dont need to draw comparisons and let it be it's own thing, but tbh after snoke is killed the scene very heavily takes inspiration from anakin and Padme in the landing platform.

Rey has seen the island. Kylo has seen the island. Rey has seen kylo Ren in a vision, kylo knows of some girl. Snoke has felt an awakening. These characters were being set up to intertwine from the start. The bond is the force, with one making the mistake and falling, while the other is resisting that fall and lending a hand to the one who did fall, while simultaneously being envied by the fallen, all while this person is also trying to pull the helping hand into darkness.

 

TFA separated Finn and Rey. Yes, Rey was with Luke, but Finn was with Leia and Poe. However, RJ was unwilling to capitalize on that, so he made an entirely new character and sent Finn off on a dumb side quest to keep him as far away from any semblance of being important as he possibly could.

Rey didn't learn anything from Luke, and she didn't really participate in the final act much. Finn and Rey's reunion was nice, but it happened far too late in the film, leaving no room to continue exploring their dynamic and how it may have changed.

What would've solved many issues is if Rey had made her way to the hangar on the Supremacy and met up with Finn and Rose there. They could then all work together to formulate a plan against Kylo's attack, and establish a camaraderie that they could carry into the next film. Luke and Rey could have final words of encouragement as she witnesses his sacrifice, ending their relationship on a more hopeful note.

But the final act would have to be more about Rey and the heroes than Kylo, so that was a no-go for Rian.

 

You are misunderstanding what the "friend-zone" is again. It isn't about friendship being one-way, but romantic affection. When a person is "friend-zoned" in the colloquial use of the term, it means that their status is never as a romantic interest but only ever as the perennial friend, or that their romantic affection for a person is unrequited, it isn't returned. They have been relegated to the friend-zone, the rather ignominious status of being considered a friend only and from where they cannot hope to achieve a romantic relationship.

It is used as a mocking description of derision in most cases but let's be honest, over three movies there was not one iota of romance between the pair, and I don't think there will be in any officially endorsed expanded fiction going forward.

They are friends, and as such if there was any hint that Finn thought it was going to be more than that depicted in the movies, then the sad fact is hat he got friend-zoned.

 

What was dropped?

Unless Rey was going to seek Luke for a cure to wake Finn up out of his coma, nothing was dropped.


Rey’s big quest as shown when Leia is telling her goodbye and the whole Resistance waving to her, is finding Luke, what the whole movie was leading up to. But that the movie finalizes will Rey to complete that task.


I@

 

@Bob Effette

Romantic affection includes friendship

I’m not misunderstanding the term friendzoned, I’m disagreeing with the concept entirely, because I don’t think it’s possible to separate friendship from a romantic relationship.

 

Rey's affection for Finn mattering significantly to her story was dropped.

If you chose to interpret Rey and Finn being separated at the end of TFA as necessitating that dropped storyline, that's your interpretation, but that does not make sense to me personally. It doesn't even make sense in a SW context. TPM ends with Anakin and Padme separated. ESB ends with Han and Leia separated. Dropping the emotional bond between the two primary heroes has no point, and TFA should have been written very differently if Finn wasn't going to be centrally important to Rey's story moving forward. TLJ made TFA a giant waste of time.

 

Originally their relationship was written differently in TFA.

JJ changed it on set.

 

I don't understand the point. So? The on screen story was what it was.

 

Bob is right. Difference between friendship and friednzone is agreement or lack thereof about what realtionship is going to be. Friends agree that they are friends and not something else (romantic couple, for example). Friendzone means that one of friends wants something else from the relationship but the other friend doesn't. Hence friendzoned as in "forced to accept that relationship won't evolve from friendship.". It's :"stop, I'm not interested in anything other than friendship". Proceed at the risk of becoming Reeeey meme.

Now, all this handwringling is because Finn's crush is totally one-sided and those who cannot accept it are trying to prove that Rey would have returned the feelings had it not been for evil Rian Johnson. Which is wishful thinking because if JJ could do several major unexplained things in TROS such as Palpy return and Palpy relation to Rey (which directly contradicted TLJ no less) , he could have easily used the 1 year time jump to show Rey and Finn as an established Force-training couple. After all, he unceremoniously dumped Rose from Finn's life so what stood in the way? Ah yes, he wasn't interested. Things happen in movies if writers/directors want them to happen and no one saw Rey and Finn as a couple. Johnson didn't. Trevorrow (who favored Rey with Poe) didn't. JJ didn't.

So let examine each director. Johnson continued from TFA - whether you think he continued or retconned/undid TFA he was the next guy to take the story further. if things he is accused of destroying (Finnrey, Jedi Finn) were deemed important let alone must-have, he wouldn't be allowed to make the movie he made. KK had no qualms about firing directors at any point in the production, or locking them out of editing room, etc if their movie didn't feel right to her. So the logical explanation why TLJ turned out the way it did is that plot points that some fans were hoping to see, due to extremly vague anyone-can-see-anything clues, either didn't exist from film-makers POV or were low level of importance and something they were willing to let go of if they found a better alternative. Short version: not a crucial, unmissable, essential, franchise-defining, important thing that must be in the movie.

Colin Trevorrow. Since everyone read his script, you know very well that he continued Finn and Rose relationship from TLJ while giving Poe to Rey as her love interest. In fact, he asked Rian to add the meetcute between then as he meant to make it central to his movie. So this is another director who watched TFA and TLJ and didn't see Rey an Finn as a romantic couple despite their "strong emotional bond" that we are constantly bludgeoned with around here. Not so strong that bond after all since 3 directors couldn't see it and easily gave Rey stronger bonds with other characters.

JJ Abrams. Like I said already, JJ brought Palpy without any explanation. "[Sigh]. Somehow, Palaptine has returned" is a popular meme and all we got. Surely showing Rey and Finn as a couple thatwais trained in the Force by Leia would require even less explanation? After all, JJ dropped Finn and Rose and Rey and Kylo broke up at the end of TLJ while rey and Finn hugged. Path was clear and yet the path wasn't taken.because the director didn't see that kind of development. He even went out of his way to insert the actor-pleasing FS hint (the actor stated in an interview he stopped reading the script and thanked JJ for putting something in it that he always wanted - now we know what it is) that while it was weak and had no consequence was still there as a courtesy. But romance-wise, Finn's crush on rey remained one-sided or at least most people still read his behavior as unrequited crush even though Naomi Ackie confirmed that Finn and Jannah were played as romantic interests which shows that JJ didn't see Rey requiting Finn's feelings. He dropped Rose to replace her with Jannah, not with Rey but with a brand new character. he didn't have to but he wanted to. Because Finn and Rey were never seen as a potential couple and surely the director who created the characters would be most likely to pick up that thread if such thread existed in his previous movie. But he didn't so do the math. I get that blaming Johnson for dead headcanons feeds the narrative but JJ's lack of interest in making Finn and Rey the couple/two-sided crush is tough argument to beat. He tossed many TLJ things out of the window or simply didn't take the bait (eg. Rey Nobody, Kylo as the villain without someone above him, Hux being a more serious opposition to Kylo than comical spy, finale that doesn't follow ROTJ beats, etc) so coupling Finn and Rey would be much easier than those other things and yet he passed on it. Becasue he wanted to. That wasn't the story he wanted to tell and many TROS problems actually stem from his forcing the story he wanted to tell (aka direct TFA sequel). Where there's will there's way and there was no will for Rey returning Finn's feelings in any of 3 writer-director's scenarios.

 

The friendzone concept is shallow and not legitimate to me. This trilogy pushed a romance between a young woman and a man she only knew because he terrorized her and her friends. In that context, friendzoning being pushed as even a thing is kind of ridiculous to me, like violence is superior to friendship when it comes to romance.

Rey knew Finn for two days when she supposedly "friendzoned" him. That's not a thing. They didn't have time to friendzone each other. The story was two people met and very very quickly formed a deep, mutual affection for each other. That is a wonderful foundation for a romance to develop. Friendship in no way precludes romance developing later. It certainly could have been written, and 100% that is preferable to the nonsense that was Reylo.