ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

3 years after TLJ came out, biggest Hollywood names are thrilled to work with Rian. It's only some disgruntled fans and one disguntled actor that can't stop taking potshots at this movie (not to be mixed up with constructive criticism) as if nothing else happened in their lives since. Oh well, everyone makes their own bed. When he made TLJ, he made his own bed which led to critical praise, being in demand and Oscar nom for his latest movie. Potshots takers, OTOH, can't claim all that can they?

 

Lightsaber duels and space dogfighting are Staples of SW. Almost every other franchise doesn't have either of those things. In SW, imo, if the writer is going to skip both, there really needs to be a good reason. I don't think TLJ offered that at all.

A slow speed space chase that makes no sense isn't suspenseful or exciting. TLJ shows one side getting excruciatingly slowly massacred defenselessly for basically the entire two hours. In dogfighting, at least both sides are fighting, trying, and have a plan besides running. Usually in war films, there are two sides fighting in battle, not one side mass murdering slowly a defenseless side.

In terms of the direct lack of a lightsaber clash, I can imagine exciting ways to avoid that. The force users might use their sabers in other novel and visually stimulating ways while still packing the story with emotion and consequence. But in the end, TLJ gave a battle with a pile of canon fodder. There are no stakes in battles with canon fodder, no emotion. You already know who's gonna win, and then they did. There's no sense of consequence in the end because the bodies were canon fodder and none of the characters care about them or even know about them.

I remember I read a theory that the disappearing knife mistake was evidence of a rewrite where Rey originally lost and the film ended with injured Rey captured by Kylo. That would have been unexpected and interesting imo. The hero losing to canon fodder and then ending up a prisoner of the villain would have given the scene stakes and consequence and emotion. As is, I think the only emotion in the TLJ duel is whatever angst is felt between reylo. For anyone in the audience that doesn't buy that and/or doesn't care about that, there's no meat to the scene.

 

Don’t forget the rest of the main cast. And JJ.

All worked with RJ. You did not. I trust their opinion of him about yours.

 

Oh you mean that JJ whose movie they threw under the bus too? After he fan serviced them to the max?

Yeah, I think I'll take the opinion of Chris Evans, Daniel Craig, Tony Colette, Ana de Armas, Jamie Le Curtis, etc over some almost 30 years old who still thinks that throwing shade with vomit emojis is height of sophistication.

 

I don’t get the sense JJ was too happy with the final movie either. He didn’t get final cut, recall. And he made no real attempt to defend it.

I don’t know what “fanserviced [the cast] to the max” means. I don’t think JJ “fanserviced” anyone.

“If you want to see the true measure of a man, watch how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

A good rule of thumb to keep in mind. Plenty of folk will lick the boots of people they think can advance their careers while ill-treating those he thinks he can slight without negative consequences.

So no, I don’t give RJ credit for playing nice with a cast full of powerful, influential people.

ETA: Also, please cite where John said his use of nauseas emojis was “the height of sophistication.” I can’t help but think you made that up to insult an actor you clearly dislike.

 

RJ is superior to JJ.

 

Rian Johnson is great. I really like his work.

 

DAT GIF

 

The problem with this argument, IMO, is that part 2 of a three part saga is where the stakes are supposed to be established. Not part 1. TFA wasn't perfect, but it established the characters and the setting fairly well, IMO.

 

Serious question, because I have heard this in other threads but never saw anything definitive; What is the source for this? How do we know this was the case?

 

it's conspiracy just like the snydercut.

 

The Syndercut of "Justice League" is a conspiracy? How do you know?

I have to agree. Actually, I didn't like TFA, but it did establish the characters and setting for the trilogy. But Johnson's idea of continuing what Abrams had started really fell short to me. And I feel that what Abrams did in TROS was even worse.

 

and who are those inferiors?

Oh so now anyone who has good opinion on Rian (whom you dislike) is a boot-licker and carrer-advancer?

Since he's almost 30, I assume that he uses emojis thinking that's sophisticated cause otherwise being that old and throwing shades like a pre-teen knowing it's childish is a bit head-scratching. But my bad for jumping to conclusions. I mean, I use emojis like a little kid too but I'm not a role model or whatever. I'm a anon, I'm not presenting myself to potential employers.

@Obironsolo All movies should have stakes, doens't matter whether movie 1, 2 or 3.

 

For JJ not getting final cut? His editor, Maryann Brandon, said in an interview (in December, I think?) that the movie was “taken away” from them in late November. Meaning JJ didn’t have control over how the movie ultimately turned out.

ETA:

The TLJ cast, who are not very powerful and influential, relatively speaking.

Oh, no. That’s not what I was referring to at all.

I’ve never in my life met anyone who thought using emojis is “sophisticated.” As an older millennial, myself, I can assure you that online casual emoji use among persons around John’s and my age is very common. I’m not sure what online spaces you frequent or the ages of folk you tend to hang out with online, but no, emoji use is not considered toxic to one’s job prospects, unless, perhaps, you are spamming emojis in work emails to One’s boss or corporate clients!

 

Others have already shown many more examples of how TLJ copies ESB.

But my point was simply this, if one criticizes TFA for copying too much from ANH and yet praises TLJ.
Then that becomes a bit of a double standard. Why isn't TLJ criticized on the same ground as TFA?

But the copying that both TFA and ESB aren't my main issues with the films. But I do notice them.
TFA is too light on world building, things aren't very clear, characters like Phasma seems like a lot of hype for very little. Too many convenient accidents, They figured out how to blow SKB way too quickly.
And I also think that SKB should have been saved for film two. Just show it at the end, that would get people talking "Oh **** what is that thing?"
TLJ compounds the problem of bare bones world building and does a disservice to a lot of the characters and abandons a lot of the set up from TFA. Plus it has an Idiot Plot and Idiot ship design.
The big FO Dreadnaught, their surface guns can apparently not shoot at fighters. A flaw that the DS had, over 30 years ago. Haven't they learned since then?

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Oh poor JJ. My heart is breaking. I dunno, maybe he shouldn't have committed to a movie scheduled for Dec 2019 which he deeemd too short notice? I'm sure they had other directors on call.

 

This is true, you are right. TFA was not perfect by any stretch. But in terms of the trilogy as a whole, it was part 2 that failed to establish the stakes. I agree with your assessment of TFA in that it had weak stakes. But the trilogy crumbles under the weight of the failure of TLJ to establish the larger story. This isn't supposed to occur in part 1. It's not until ESB that a showdown between Luke and Vader is considered, which I would contend defines the stakes of the OT.

 

I must have missed that one... I will try to find it. Thanks!

 

All 3 OT movies had stakes even if ROTJ ones were somewhat lower due to repetitiveness (we knew DS 2.0 would blow up so yeah). But ST movies had no stakes so I'm just saying lack of stakes isn't just unique TLJ trait. Sure, stakes were mandatory for the middle movie but not having them in any is always a mistake. There's no excuse not to have them when you should.

 

You won't find it because what he just said is a flat-out lie or complete misrepresentation of what the editor said.

You are talking to the same poster who insisted Rey was a Skywalker by blood right up til release, even in the face of the leaked plot and promotional material aligning beat for beat. Some people here are committed to pet narratives and have agendas.

 

Thanks for the input, I have read most of the interviews that Maryann Brandon gave about the film and didn't really see it but I was curious to know what the context was.