ST Rian Johnson (Director Of TLJ) Discussion Thread

I’m Gen X and I use emojis on social media. I’ve probably used the smiley one in a work email at least once.

And if the other option is tolerating abusive and often racist crap from people who ask him if he’s “jealous of Adam Driver” and “still has a crush on Daisy,” I hope Boyega throws lots of shade. He is not obligated to put up with that.

 

I'm Gen X and an unexaggerated 80% of my text and email interactions with colleagues include at least one usage of

Because, I also happen to be absurd.

 

Well, we were specifically discussing actors who have worked with Rian but I acknowledge your goalpost moving as well as your continued breaking of our rules against not discussing other members rather than the topic.

 

You thought wrong. And, if you believe there is no recorded evidence of John Boyega, Mark Hamill and others having shared negative feedback regarding Rian's choices (which is a reflection on him), you are thinking wrongly in that regard, as well. I am sincerely sympathetic that people refusing to appreciate something you like very much causes hardship but your running about on here, policing every criticism and embedding yourself into discussions between one or two other specific members... and wrongly understanding the parameters of our discussion... in order to throw shade and correct people, is only going to end badly for you. And, we kinda need you here for the balance when it comes to opinions on this stuff.

 

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BY WHICH I DO MEAN *EVERYONE*...

PLEASE CALM DOWN.

IF THINGS ARE GETTING PERSONAL WITH ANYONE HERE, IF YOU FIND YOUR SELF WRITING A POST ABOUT ANOTHER POSTER, USING “YOU” REPEATEDLY TO MAKE CLEAR WHO THE SUBJECT OF YOUR POST IS, OR IF YOU FIND YOURSELF POSTING ABOUT AGENDAS... I WOULD RECOMMEND LEAVING THE THREAD BEFORE SOMEONE ESCORTS YOU OUT OF THE FORUM.

AND I DO MEAN *BOTH* SIDES, OKAY?

(And guys, we *do* have a report button. It’s better to use that than try and fix it yourself.)

 

Correct.

 

Since you asked a question first, I’ll say that I think RJ would shoulder a bit more of the blame in specificity (as in, he made the specific and detailed choices that wound up derailing the story from its potential) while Abrams shares the other half of the blame with LFL in general (as in, he and they equally produced a rudderless story that allowed too many creators and executives to play favorites with characters and themes, ultimately creating a mess).

Like, I’d hold RJ responsible for both Rey Random being the concept they went with, *and* for its execution being appallingly bad... but Abrams and LFL would be held responsible for not laying out a plan with her or acting as producers fo a long-term story.

Or for the Reylo elements, I would hold Johnson responsible for its development and growth in the fandom and story in TLJ, while it was nowhere in TFA... but Abrams was a producer, and honestly I think he should have raised racket there enough to alert everyone to the issues with the idea, though I blame LFL more for its final TROS form.

Abrams’s style of editing multiple ideas and takes probably worked out well for TFA, because it allowed him improvise quickly under a rushed schedule with that film - I genuinely think that the only real thing missing by the time he was done was an overseer with a long term plan, with the kind of self-awareness to adjust appropriately once the film came out, so as to maintain focus and ensure payoff on all his mystery boxes, but do what course correction was required.

All the short-term objectives he, Disney, and LFL had for that film were ultimately successful - I’d even say his style ensured those objectives were met. The problem with TFA is that it *needed* a planned out follow-up, which was neither Abrams’s style nor one of Kennedy’s objectives during the ST.

In contrast, I think that Johnson experienced one of the very few times where a weakness in his usually strong “write and shoot what you want, edit out a minimum” style showed up: a kind of mix of usually tolerable (and even normally laudable) stubbornness with a lack of self-awareness or outside viewpoints.

I tend to think that Johnson’s directorial work on the film is unimpeachable... save for where it crosses over with his input as a writer, where I think his tunnel vision wound up crippling the film and its contributions to the overall story in the long run. He was probably only two or three drafts away from making a film that more generally accomplished his short-term goals without suffocating any long term potential in the story (even for what I think were ultimately *very* flawed and easily undermined choices, like Rey Random)... but since he’s so used to knocking it out of the park, and since his crew is likewise used to that, no one paused his storytelling to suggest how badly the ST story was being served.

But on the other hand, I *do* think his self-awareness about the amount of prep and singular focus he had is probably why he turned down directing IX, while Abrams’s more “lossey-goosey” approach probably played into why he did take that job...

...And honestly, I don’t really know if either Johnson or Abrams could have delivered the kind of TLJ sequel LFL wanted.

My production theory, that Trevorrow was fired, and that the Duel of the Fates script was almost entirely abandoned out of LFL’s dissatisfaction with Kylo as the main villain and clashing desires to try and make Bendemption happen, which I think even Johnson was moving against with TLJ’s overall story, may have doomed even him trying to continue the story. The Duel of the Fates script feels far more faithful and enagaging with TLJ’s creative ethos and underlying reasons for its decisions than any of the other scripts we’ve heard about, or with TROS.

I think that the thing that really killed Episode IX was LFL basically forever postponing the “Bill” for the story’s payoff until eventually they tried to determine what *they* thought would be acceptable, rather than plan out the story ahead of time. It think a lot of the ST’s problems, and the lack of momentum and factionalism among the fanbase, can be easily placed at Johnson’s story decisions... but a lot of the story decision problems feel like they’re laying at LFL’s feet as well.

Here’s a query I’d like to get some feedback on: who hear would agree that the DOTF script has a story that follows from TLJ in a way that you think Johnson could agree with?

I mean, *I* feel that way, but I kind of want to hear from everyone, critics and fans of TLJ combined.

 

The greatest irony for me from here on out when it comes to movies and Star Wars is that if you slap Rian Johnson’s name on almost any movie or TV show, I’m almost guaranteed to watch it and enjoy it... except for The Last Jedi.

At least he got the one disappointment every great director has out of the way, in my opinion. And it wasn’t even really him as a director that I think failed the film and franchise. It was him a s a writer, and the guys around him who wouldn’t challenge him on clearly good decisions.

And I’ll always hold that the interview tape from him from years ago where he talks about wanting to risk the audience hating his film is *not* him aiming to be divisive, but instead a simple acknowledgment that he prefers taking risks when he thinks they will payoff, and that he knows that when he’s stubborn about his story choices, they usually payoff.

It’s just unfortunate that the one time I don’t think they paid off was in arguably his highest profile movie.