ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Then go listen to the director commentaries and JJ talk about his lead characters if you don't want to believe what the writers and directors say then fine that's 100% your choice but it won't make you right you and entitled to your opinion on the subject even if there is enough evidence to disprove it. Also sidekicks never get as much screen time as the main character because the mains always get development away from the sidekick. Sidekicks usually get only small moments of development away from the main character not enough to eclipse them or essentially match them in screentime.

 

If you notice, one character is in the center while the other is off to the side.

 

I will just follow your camps lead on this and sate the poster doesn't mean anything! Since screentime and actual comments from writers and directors don't count hey lets take what someone in the art department that was just told to make something that sells a film and let them decided who the main characters are.... please. You don't like Finn and that's okay it doesn't diminish what is role was in TFA

Kek and when was Finn and Poe dialog good in TFA? Never. Woo hoo! Reeey! I'm.In.Charge.Foozma. Do you have a boyfrind? Cute boyfriend? I can fly anything [crashes 3 min later]

Those lines are bad or worse unmemorable. Poe doesn't even have a story in TFA. he's lucky he got one in TLJ. Finn's story in TLJ at least finally doesn't revolve around screaming for Rey. So lets not pretend that JJ is the white savior here for he absolutely isn't. He didn't write decent characters and scenes for minorities either. Not because they are minorities but because he can't write his way out of a paperbag.[/QUOTE]

First off I never said JJ did a great job with dialogue or writing for minorities at all. He made things even worse in TROS. TLJ is just far worse since you see racial stereotypes in Poe, Rose and Finn where as it was more subdued but still present in TFA. You can even add how badly Holdo is handled in TLJ but I digress

 

Poster means a lot. They wouldn't put a character who is as central as 2 other central characters on the side if he was just as central. And his billing is third among new cast so if you want to argue that he was the lead than you have to acknowledge that there were 3 leads. Driver got top billing among new actors while, for example, James Earl Jones didn't for Vader. So Driver may have played the villain but the villain was also one of leads or he wouldn't get top billing. Check ANH poster:



No mention of the villain actor let alone top billing. Even though his character was mega important. And no, it isn't just because he performed voice work. JEJ was famous enough to get on the poster even for that.

 

Rey is the main character. The saga revolves around Rey. If all the writers thought Finn was the main character he would have been.

I didn't care for some of his writing in TFA. Like I said I thought he was one of the weak parts of that picture and much preferred his performance in The Last Jedi.

 

Writing 101 a story doesn't have to have just one main character especially. TFA was written as going for more of an Ensemble approach and not having just one main character. Also if you want to take a look at the ST as a whole Rey is not the main character TLJ and TROS pretty much made sure that Kylo is in fact that main character in the story but that's a topic for another story.

JJ's comments about how they wanted to construct Kylo as well as what happened latter on in the saga especially with Kylo in TLJ do in retrospect make the argument for Kylo as third lead valid. I don't think they would be if you want to isolate TFA but in terms of the ST as a whole I would even say Kylo is the main character. Also in ANH Leia is just about as big as Luke and is the first character we are introduced to an argument could be made that she is the co lead of ANH just like Finn was in TFA although she gets much less screen time. The size difference is about the same as Finn and Rey so thanks for helping me prove my point.

 

Finn got unjustified screen time in TFA. As others pointed out, he's 3PO that somehow got elevated to Han level minutes-wise but not impact-wise. so we had Rey(Luke), Han(Han), BB8(R2) and Finn(3PO) but 3PO got more screen time than Han even though the type of character didn't support it. The next 2 movies simply reverted him to justifiable screen time. It isn't demotion. It's common sense.

And TLj still bothered to make him more than Rey's or Poe's tagalong.

 

Yes ensemble but Rey is still the main character. She defeats palpatine.

 

What Impact did Han have in ANH he and Finn and so similar in terms of roles in the first tilms it's laughable if you want to elevate Han over Finn. He literally tags along with Luke and makes one decision to come back and save Luke everything else he did was self motivated and because of actions that were taken upon him. You can see Finn as 3PO that's your opinion but it's not the opinion of the creators of the story.

There is no such thing as unjustified screentime. He got the screentime he got because what the creators viewed his role in the film and the saga in TFA now RJ viewed thins differently and he was demoted. He viewed thing so differently from JJ that Kylo went from antagonistic to arguably the main character so bringing TLJ into the conversation really doesn't work.

 

Luke is the main character in A New Hope

 

Please take a writing class the character that wins the day or defeats the villains is not necessarily the main character. in Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn the main character for all 3 books is Vin there is also the co protagonist of the story for book 1 Kelsier who is replaced by Elend Venture in subsequent. By book 3 she is not the one that defeats the main threat it is someone else who was a side character but still a major character. So once again writing 101 there is not just one main character in a story per say.

 

That has nothing to do with Jar Jar and 3PO. If you take one thing out of context, okay I can do that too with any character. Kylo is like Jar Jar because they have almost the same screen time as each other in the first film of their trilogies. It doesn't mean anything. And yes, trying to compare Finn to Jar Jar and Threepio is obviously an attempt to diminish him. That's the entire point, and really the only point. It's not complicated. Oh hey, Kylo crash lands in RoS. He's just like R2 and Threepio in that film!

So again, Finn is the truth-teller of TFA about the villains of TFA. That isn't like Threepio or Jar Jar, and really almost nothing about his journey is like them, so there's nothing surprising about that.

Again, flat out factually untrue. At literally no point in the entirety of TFA does Finn ever follow Poe. Your argument is dishonest. You don't even support this with everything else you say:

Not following.

False. In TFA, Finn never makes the decision to follow the Resistance path, until very possibly at the very end when he chooses to face down Kylo. It has nothing to do with Poe.

He isn't on the fence. He chooses explicitly not to join them. That's not what he wants to do.

I get that he doesn't follow Poe in TFA because it literally never happens. Cheering Poe on =/= following. He also at no point ever wants to follow in Poe's footsteps LMAO.

The fight is brought to Rey entirely against her will, not Finn. Finn chooses to join for his own reasons. He isn't pulled in. He leaves and then chooses to come back. Your quote obviously didn't need quotes lol. That didn't happen. Also, Rey isn't Finn's side mission. She's the only reason he's there, which he states. He helps while there to get the shields down because he's a good person, but that's not why he's there. And also, nope he didn't follow Rey on SKB. I have no idea what you're talking about there lol. By your inaccurate argument, though, about making no choices negating someone being a protagonist, you have really effectively invalidated Rey as a protagonist. Congrats.

 

@AhsokaSolo

Finn follows Poe. He gets his jacket, cheers him on, is all buddy buddy with him. Finn admires Poe that is why he, logically, goes to Poe after he wakes up from a coma, and later forms a plan with him. Even in the last jedi he follows Leia's hospital bed, steals her Rey tracker, just so he can follow Rey on achtoo.

Rey, Han, chewie....they're all in. Finn bailed and then the fight starts.

Finn literally follows the path of R2D2 and 3pO. I dont see how you cannot recognize this parallel.

 

Not following.

Not following.

Not following.

Not following.

Not TFA. And anyway, lol, he still didn't follow him in TLJ but whatever, that's a totally different discussion and irrelevant to this topic.

 

Why keep arguing with people intent on making fallacious arguments? It's clear at this point that they're either trolling or are simply in denial of the facts.

What does that have to do with Finn being the co-lead? Nothing. The writers and director refer to Finn as the male lead. Does that mean he's the central character of the trilogy? No, but it certainly means he is in fact a lead character and in no way on the level of a droid.

 

I dunno, I guess I just don't like to see blatant misrepresentations to troll the character dominating the thread.

 

Because hes not the main character.

Ensemble cast. Finn is a male character of some importance aka a side character aka a sidekick to Rey, the main character, which, is what people are saying.

 

We keep arguing because eventually their argument falls apart. Now what a valid argument would be and one that would be worthy of discussion is should Finn have been the male lead of TFA because of how he was written and his characters impact to the story. That's something we could argue and debate right now the issue is that people don't want to accept a fact one that has been put out their by the creators that Finn is the male lead of TFA whether that was a good choice is something that is up for debate. People don't need to like the fact but for some reason people can't accept the simple fact of the matter and then shift their frame of debate and discussion. What we are seeing is an attempt to reframe their opinion as fact and truth which is simply not the case and something that is always worth combating because right now it may be just about a movie but when people treat their opinions as facts when there is incontrovertible proof that it's not the case it can be very dangerous is other contexts.

 

Yeah, then everyone's on the same page. It's just that some are using the literary term "protagonist" to make the same exact point. Rey is the primary protagonist. Finn is her co-protagonist.

 

Han is then a "co protagonist". Is this a real term?

So, if Rey is the primary, that would make the others a secondary aka side character.

 

Yes Han is a co-protagonist. So is Obi.

And yes it's a real term. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coprotagonist

 

At best, he is the tritagonist.

 

"At best"??? LMAO

No, he is the secondary protagonist and it isn't close at all. He dwarfs both Han and Kylo in screen time and he has a hero's journey and an arc that spans the film and he is one of two pov characters that we follow throughout the film.

 

And do we not follow him in The Last Jedi? And, is he not connected to Rey, still, by means of the tracker and their stories being intercut?

 

Rey - Main lead/Female lead/Protagonist
Finn - Secondary/Co-lead/Male lead/Deuteragonist
Han Solo/BB8? - Tritagonist
Kylo Ren - Main Antagonist
Snoke - Secondary Antagonist
Hux - Third Antagonist