ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

People say this is an overreaction to Finn's arc in TLJ, but it feels exactly this cynical because not only is Finn kept away from Rey and paired up with Rose for the entirety of the film...that sucks, but is tolerable on some level. No, he also decided to tack on a romantic angle at the last minute with no build-up, and it throws a massive, awkward wrench into any potential pairings for Finn.

I think someone else pointed this out earlier, but the icing on the cake is that TFA did everything it could to build a positive and supportive relationship between Rey and Finn, and it was respectful of the audience's intelligence by not having them jump straight to romantic feelings in one film. Yet suddenly, TLJ introduces Rose and Finn's tertiary cartoon episode and by the end, she's literally professing love to him and giving him a kiss. What the hell is that? What did that add to the movie? Why did that have to edge into a romance so suddenly?

This trilogy was a whole mess and they should never be allowed to live it down, especially not after how they rode the wave of prequel hate to peddle their own crap.

 

Maybe not obligated, but if he doesn't like how a fictional character's he's playing is being written, it's a fictional character and he isn't obligated to that character's writing being any better.

 

Your making some pretty hefty assumptions there for all you know the breach of contract penalty was so heavy he couldn’t break it even if he wanted to. It’s not like he didn’t sign something agreeing to show up in all films. Now he could have phoned it in but that wouldn’t be any better. Your over simplifying the situation by quite a few magnitudes.

Oscar hated his stuff as well but didn’t leave either so there has to he a reason they stick it out besides the pay for the films.

 

I didn't say he should leave.

 

Then what were you saying because it really isn't clear.

 

Moreso that no actor is particularly obligated to their character being written better. To expand on that: If he doesn't like it, that's his opinion and I think he's allowed to it. But it's a fictional character.

 

Yes I meant JJ...he wasn't supposed to do more than TFA.

But TLJ did not set Rey and Kylo on the romantic path....dyad could have been done without the romance in the end. And it was JJ who introduced their force bond in TFA. Thus 'condemning' the two to eachother.
I think that pursuing a love relationship with a woman whose mind is connected to another man is really bad precursor for a love story.
Would be unfair to Finn's character as well. Because is it not true that even after the FB is broken by the death of one in it the other feels their loss forever? Like a part of them is gone?

On your points of deliberately separating Finn and Rey in TLJ I find myself thinking how the alternative would work. How could he grow if he would be in her shadow. You said yourself she is the hero of ST. Can there really be two hero characters?

I mean....Rey is too strong(minded) to let anyone walk beside her...she has trust issues for sure, and sometimes out of the best intentions wishing to protect the people she cares about, she shuts them out: she did it to Finn on the death star when she prevented him to help...

 

Your still making a lot of assumptions you have no idea what the negotiations were like what discussion were had about his character and long term arcs. Anyone that signs on as a lead deserves a well written character throughout the entire trilogy unless it was discussed beforehand.

 

The justification of negative actions, especially in the context of race and gender, being that "if you had a problem with it, you should have done something else" is typical victim blaming of the issue instead of holding those in power accountable.

 

Neither of us know either way. I don't see how what I say is any more of an assumption than saying that a lead deserves well written characters.

That's an opinion. These are fictional characters. I see writing something well as more of a job situation for the writer, not based obligation to the actor.

Writing something not well isn't a negative action all by itself. As far as I know for sure, we don't know whether race and/or gender were factors in why the writing was lacking. I didn't say someone shouldn't have done it. It's a job. If he took it and doesn't like how it turned out, I think that's his opinion and he has his God given free will to have it and vocalize it.

I didn't say he wasn't. I haven't seen silencing in play here and/or in my posts.

 

It's not about him being "entitled to better writing". He apparently has reason to believe that the people in charge were actively working against him, or at the very least they were unwilling/not as forthcoming to accommodate for him as they were with his white co-stars.

We don't know the facts, because Lucasfilm/Disney has buried and sanitized the BTS info for Rise of Skywalker, and no one has commented on John's accusations.

But from what we do know, from the outside, it doesn't look good. At the very least, there was a clear lack of investment in Finn after TFA, and John's enthusiasm for TROS died after the reshoots and re-edits that reportedly JJ had little control over. Hiding the deleted scenes looks suspect in that light.

We won't have the full story until Lucasfilm comes clean, but that'll likely be when pigs fly. However, John putting pressure on them may have an effect on the money Disney can make from the ST moving forward, and that may force them to make a move sooner rather than later.

 

God, the thought of that movie just makes the wasted potential hurt more.

 

Han is totally different though. the argument here is that Finn should be glued to Rey as co-lead. while Han wasn't constantly glued to Luke. Han was someone who was capable to working alone and had his own ship and relationship.

Thats why when people say Finn had a bad role in TLJ i just think well what about Han and Leia in Empire? who cried that they were not with Luke after ANH? who cried that all 3 were not training to be Jedis?

And as for Obi Wan. yeah he most certainly was a co-lead in the prequels. but the relationship with Obi Wan and Anakins was destined to not go well. and so the fight between them was more meaningful. we are meant to support Obi Wan, but also meant to feel frustrated with Anakin. its a relationship that starts well but ends badly. and thats kinda the hook and the edge to that relationship

 

Finn's duel with Kylo Ren was really a tribute to the ESB Luke and Vader duel. The hero tags the villain, prompting them to start fighting seriously, giving the hero a grave injury.

Finn really deserved a second duel against Kylo.

 

All of the characters had a meaningful story and were integral to the plot of the film. Cut out Finn's story and your not missing a damn thing bascially. The three also had a friendship that was developed due to the time skip that occurred between films and had some great scenes together before being separated. Finn didn't have to be glued to Rey there is a lot they could have done with him he is a trained Stormtrooper he could have been leading and commanding troops. Sharing First Order tactics and strategies. There is a lot they could have done with the character they just didn't care to as they wanted to shift the focus to Kylo.

Oh and just to highlight the writing in the ST doesn't even come close to the writing and quality storytelling we got out of ESB. If TLJ was told have as well as TESB the film would have been much better. There was no complaints about ESB because it was just a good movie all around. TLJ IMO was not it was critic bait and appealed to certain sectors of the audience. I don't know how anyone can love a film where one third of it almost could be left on the cutting room floor.....

 

A few things:
1) In every single OT movie Han and Luke have at least one instance when they go out of their way to help the other specifically because they are friends. Rey and Finn share a single hug in TLJ and it's at the end when she rescues the whole Resistance which he just happens to be a part of.
2) People want Finn to be a Jedi because they specifically marketed him that way. It feels like false advertising now.
3) It's entirely possible for Finn to be a co-lead without physically sharing screen-time with Rey but the way they went about it doesn't make him seem important to the plot, which is why people view him as more of a sidekick who doesn't get to contribute the way he should if he were a main character.

 

That is no reason to blame that on the Kylo character. anything they did not do with Finn has nothing to do with the Kylo character, especially if as you say he didn't need to be glued to Rey. in which case his development wouldn't have needed to be linked to Rey anyway.

But then we also had Poe taking up his own plot too. should we go nuts that Poe took it away from Finn? no one seems bothered about Poe's part.

And IMO finn got more to do in TLJ then he did in TROS. the only reason people don't notice it is because in TROS he is hanging with Rey and the other he isn't. but TLJ actually had Finn developing a different plot that he got to be more of a center in. one that gave him his hero moment by defeating Phasma in a fight.

 

That's 100% not true. The fact that the writer of TLJ couldn't be bothered to right a decent script for Finn because he found Kylo to be the most relatable is absolutely on the Kylo character and the studio's plans for him as well. If Disney wanted more Finn, Rey and Poe I don't see how after TFA we get a movie that focuses on Kylo but still doesn't tell us a damn thing about him at all.... but hey it happened.

Poe should have just died in TFA Oscar said as much himself I really wish I could find that interview he gave when he said it. The reason why you don't see as much conversation about it is because Poe was not the lead in TFA and he did absolutely take up some space that would have been better served Elsewhere. You could cut most of Poe's stuff from the Film and not miss that much either. Both Finn and Poe serve as filler in the overstuffed mess that is TLJ.

Finn may have gotten "more to do" in TLJ but it wasn't meaningful, it was racist, the plot was just plain stupid as well. Rose and Finn's storyline is derided and agreed by many even those that like TLJ to be the worst part of the whole movie because it just does not belong.

TROS is just as bad but it gets largely left out of the conversation because the tonal shift of direction and focus on different characters started in TLJ