ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

People can think both didn't have strongly well constructed stories.

 

Well he was on his way to see Rey when he awoke from the coma, until Rose stopped him because Rian wanted to subvert our expectations and have Finn go with Rose instead on a while goose chase. Poe would have been better suited going with Rose. Finn with Rey. Without Poe on the base, wouldn't have all of this back and forth nonsense with Holdo. Really no need to have a Holdo there.

 

The coma stuff is especially weak because like @alwayslurking said, RJ did the same thing with Rose in TLJ. No one is arguing that Rose being in a coma is the reason for her lack of role in TROS.

I do think not allowing Finn a physical win in TFA was JJ trying to show that Rey was going to be "the hero" going forward, but that doesn't mean Finn had to be completely demoted the way he was in TLJ. It's easy to look back on TFA and see where they could've done things differently in hindsight now that we've seen what TLJ and TROS brought us, but TFA did not set up the complete failure that his character came to be. There was lots of potential. I loved Finn in TFA and was excited to see where the next movie would take him. TLJ was just massively disappointing.

 

What would Finn do with Rey on Ahch to?

What Rey's character does to Kylo has not much to do with what Finn's character does to Rey. Rey, all by her self and through the will of JJ already in TFA established her relationship with Finn, and Finn, by himself, through the will of JJ in TFA already showed his priority is Rey. I am reading your repetitive arguments that Finn is not in it just for Rey but I am simply not seeing it presented on screen in TFA....I see it in TLJ and TROS when both RJ and JJ gave him further connection with the cause of the resistance that goes beyond him caring for Rey...or Poe. He doesn't stand against Kylo in TFA for the sake of Resistance but for the sake of protecting unconscious Rey.

 

I don't know, he wielded a lightsaber in TFA, hinted at force sensitivity in TROS. Felt embarrassed to be defeated by Kylo and wanted Luke to teach him how to be a Jedi to? A stormtrooper turned Jedi would have been amazing. Would there have been room for another Jedi in training in this trilogy? Idk, maybe.

Or have Finn arrive after his coma to find out that Rey already went off to face Kylo and Finn got there too late. But Luke is still on Ach-To and he could start his training off screen with Luke. Yeah I get Luke wasn't ready to retrain Jedi obviously but once turned back on the force and was motivated, he could have still did the force thing on Crait while Finn stayed on Ach-to.

Idk I just felt like there were more possibilities and character development with him going after Rey/with Rey/talking with Luke/training with Luke than going on a wild goose chase that went to nowhere. Even if I opened up to the idea of Rose and Finn, it really doesn't help Finn's purpose/character because we already assumed that he was with the resistance. The fact that he questions and has to find his purpose still two movies in is kinda ehhhh....

Plus I would have loved to see Hamill and Boyega go at it. I loved the bits with Ford and Boyega in TFA.

 

One thing I don't like about Finn in episode 7 is this that he enjoys killing other stormtroopers.

I mean he had to at least feel some sympathy for them since they were basically like himself: Some kidnapped children that are forced to become imperial soldiers.

 

this has been addressed many times already, but I mean it’s not like Finn is purposely hunting them down, they are attacking him and he is defending himself, what’s he supposed to do, let them shoot him?

and in general I’m of the opinion that there’s nothing wrong with characters taking pleasure in shooting space nazis, especially when the space nazis are the ones initiating the attack.

 

Agreed but the fact that Finn is taking such pleasure in it is a bit strange. It's something the filmmakers did not think much about, as TFA was trying to capture the spirit of ANH.

 

I don’t think it’s strange at all, the pleasure is not solely in taking the life of the stormtroopers, it’s in that he survived being attacked by them

Just like when Luke and Han shout out in joy when they blow up the first Death Star. They aren’t taking pleasure in that a million, or however many, people just died aboard the Death Star, they are joyful because they won and survived.

 

I think Finn was taking pleasure in the fact that he might actually be successful in his escape. He likely realized that he was signing his own death warrant when he walked away from the First Order, but he witnessed evil and was willing to risk his own life to get away from it. His joy was in his own survival against all odds, not in other's destruction. (I see @starfish posted something similar as I was typing! )

I love to contrast this with Kylo. People like to claim that Kylo didn't really want to use the Starkiller weapon. Unlike Finn, however, Kylo had the means to easily walk away from a situation he supposedly opposed. He had his own ship. He had the autonomy to come and go as he pleases. He is essentially super-powered. (And this is not even taking into the fact that he has a loving family he could return to, who are actively working against this weapon). However, instead of taking the brave step of walking away that Finn does, he just drills down on evil and reaping the benefits of Starkillers destruction. His supposed conviction against Starkiller certainly doesn't appear to be as strong as Kylo fans like to claim.

 

In general, The ST shows a lack of sympathy for its stormtroopers that becomes, uhm, very unfortunate, to say the least. The films seem to view them in the same dehumanization way that the First Order does.

The first film in sequel trilogy *establishes that, unlike the Empire's stormtroopers, the First Order's stormtroopers are slaves that were taken from their families as children to raised to be cannon fodder. They don't even have names; they are designated a number each while the rest of the First Order have actual names - Phasma, Hux, Kylo Ren etc.

And that's really how the stormtroopers are treated by the trilogy: they're cannon fodder.

They're not actually people with tragic backstories that were forced into slavery and indoctrinated by evil.

The unfortunate implications are further worsened by the sympathetic treatment that is exclusively afforded Kylo Ren. The films dedicate time to try to make the audience feel sympathy for him, to the point where the main character Rey develops feelings for him and wants to save him, but neither she nor the films are ever written to spare a single moment of sympathy towards his literal slaves, even though Rey's friend is an ex-stormtrooper.

This is not a problem that exists in the Original Trilogy because the stormtroopers there are not portrayed as anything but ordinary soldiers.

It's another example of the films not thinking critically about its own plot and characters (including world-building).

*Source:
Poe: "Hey, what's your name?"
Finn: "FN-2187"
Poe: "F- what?"
Finn: "That's the only name they ever gave me."
Poe: "Well, I ain't using it. FN, huh? Finn. I'm going to call you Finn, is that alright?"
Finn: "Finn. Yeah! Finn! I like that!"

Finn: "I'm not Resistance. I'm not a hero. I'm a Stormtrooper. Like all of them, I was taken from a family I'll never know. And raised to do one thing..."

 

Has there ever actually been any evidence that Kylo Ren had a moral problem with Starkiller Base?

The Force Awakens establishes early on that Kylo Ren has no problem with murdering civilians (including children) by showing him ordering the massacre of the village on Jakku. A character might feel different about a genocide on a planetary scale is different, but if the film doesn't indicate this to be the case, then I don't see why people assume it would be.

 

Thing about Finn is that really we do not know why he walked away from the first order. if you look at him based on a Han Solo type situation where he joined the order and then realised he didn't like it, then it works. if you look at it as a guy who was raised by the first order... then it starts to seem like they didn't really wanna commit to that backstory because its really quick and loose with how they move away from it.

With Kylo Ren. because he is a force user, he obviously can be corrupted by power. thats what the dark side is, its corruption of power. and non-force users won't feel like power corruption because they ain't connected to that power. so Kylo being a dark sider means yeah there is a good chance he doesn't care who dies. anyone who joins the dark side will feel a lack of care over anyone but themselves. that kinda comes with the package.

So in that respect i really don't think Finn and Kylo are the same. people try and find these comparisons but lets be honest, no one was thinking that hard about it.

 

What? Yes, we do. We literally see it unfold.



He is traumatized by what he witnesses during the massacre of the Jakku village (we later learn that this was his first battle which explains why it wasn't a problem earlier) After his squad returns to the starship, Phasma orders him to turn in his rifle in for inspection.Finn knows that they're going to find out that he disobeyed orders and so he deserts.

The film shows the audience what led to his desertion and later, on Takodana, has Finn tell Rey what happened.

 

I don't agree that somehow force sensitives have it so much harder than non force-users in regards to temptations and potential for corruption. They have the potential to cause more harm than non force-users, yes, but this notion that their feelings are so much bigger than your average pleb is just nonsense.

 

That works best for someone whose never been in a situation like that before. but he was raised in the first order. its all he knows. it should have been a much bigger deal to walk away. almost a new world he was joining... that wasn't the case because they stopped caring about that idea the moment he left.

 

that was a good scene in TFA. The bloody hand print against the white helmet was a nice contrast.

 

yeah, Finn not wanting to take part in murdering innocent villagers is enough of a reason for me as to why he walks away from the FO

 

it's never stated but you get the feeling this was his first serious mission, or first time he was asked to kill innocents at least.

 

I think the claim comes from something that was in the script, or maybe just his body language, but I don't remember for sure. I agree nothing about the movie backs it up... it's just another way to try to take away his personal responsibility for all the harm he is a part of.

 

He has never been in a situation like that before - it was his first battle. He also didn't have time to ponder what it would mean to desert - he was still full of adrenaline, mentally dealing with the horror he had witnessed and the fear of what they'd do to him. His backstory also "explains" why he cared so much about and was so loyal towards Rey and Poe: they were the first people to treat him with human decency and look at him as a person (Poe rejected the FO's dehumanization of him and offered Finn a name while Rey, after their rough start, looked at him with admiration and later shared several moments of camaraderie and care that build their friendship)

There's also his fear of the First Order and how it, along with his friendship for Rey, plays into his arc in the Force Awakens: he spends most of the film running from the First Order because he is (understandably) terrified of them. The film builds his relationship with Rey so that when Rey is abducted by Kylo Ren, Finn is willing to run towards his greatest fear to try to rescue her. That leads to him being forced to confront his fear in and overcoming it, ultimately culminating in the battle between him and Kylo Ren where Finn knows he is hopelessly outmatched but still picks up that lightsaber and bravely engages him in battle to protect Rey.

That said, I do agree that more should have been done with his backstory (exploring it) and that they stopped caring about it (after the first film): just look at the second film which missed, well, mostly everything significant about his character. Seriously, they have him repeat his character arc from the first film.

Scratch that, they didn't just make him repeat his his character arc from the first film, they recycled it into an inferior (and terrible) version.