Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Mando

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The Arquitens fired a red turbolaser blast, not green. I'm guessing just an FX mistake.

 

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Or its not an Arquitens.

 

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It's still an Imperial ship

 

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Hmm well if we take this to be the explanation for laser colors...

I guess it could be plausible that the Empire has to resort to cheaper tibanna gas in the New Republic era?

 

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Maybe they had to use some stolen republic blaster gas

 

Yes the Manual had it be gas-related. But I have another reasoning that fits even better inuniverse and already was canon previously:

Kyber crystals are used to focus lasers like the Death Star superlaser, not just sabers. The Empire has the monopoly on kyber and may use smaller shrapnels for their other weaponry to give them more power and we know kyber often creates green or blue blades. others are more rare. And All superlaser blasts via kyber were green.

So the Empire uses natural focussing crystals like kyber and non-kyber (or fake-kyber from that one novel). But the Rebels cannot afford those and have to use manufactured crystals that produce often a red saber blade and thus red blasts. Manufactured crystals can be green, like Lukes ROTJ saber, but that requires Jedi attuning. So regular manufactured crystals result in red blasts or blades as old Legends had actually be lore why many darksiders used red sabers. They did not go to the lengths of finding crystals but quickly manufactured them industrially.

So the same old existing lore fits neatly for ship weaponry's focussing crystals.

 

Also the whole gas related thing was the reason given (in the Visual Guide IIRC) as to why the Resistance blasters on Crait in TLJ were suddenly firing red bolts. They were using left over Rebel gas from the base.

 

Considering TIEs shoot green in earlier episodes, I agree

 

There's an interesting intersection here between two contrasting emphases - the desire to achieve the ultimate performance pushes for the reduction of superfluous power-and-weight demands, and simultaneously, the shift towards mass-production (Clausewitz... IN SPACE!!) means that technology which is practical on a low-production fighter like the N-1 is going to be dropped to keep production quick and simple...

Topical.

As I said over in the TIE thread, @Hernalt prompted me to think of the TIE lasers as the equivalent of the very powerful but short-ranged twin autocannon used by Imperial Japanese fighters (and some German ones), compared with the X-wing's quads corresponding to longer-ranged and more numerous but lower-calibre machine guns of the Allied planes...

To be clear, I think the TIE in the right context is a good fighter. Use the sensors and flight controllers of a carrier to vector them onto the tail of an attack formation, use the guns to hit hard at close range. Classic, but not necessarily what STAR WARS expects?

And, on the spoilery stuff... wow, just wow...

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The cruiser looks great. I'm curious what the scaling works out at, but I'm not sure that's the main thing here at all. And I have little real headcanon about turbolaser bolt colour, but I like the idea of synthetic focusing crystals.

And the new Imperial shuttle? I see obvious nods to the Rogue One and First Order designs (and those engine pods look a bit like the ones on the Knights of Ren's ship), but I like the design a lot - the blocky geometry makes it look distinctive...

In response to @Chris0013 and the question of whether we could link this to an existing designation, there's a fairly large box of "supposedly standard stormtrooper transport we never really got a good image of" types, but most of the types that thought of immediately are probably too large for his ship (this, this, and this, for example)...

A part of me wants to say they're Delta-class, partially because that's a designation that was used for at least three completely different types, and partially because they might be a reimagining of the classic stormtrooper-dropship design:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Delta-class_DX-9_stormtrooper_transport

Or, alternatively, the T-shaped hull arrangement might make them a brand new, never-seen-before Tau-class assault shuttle...?!

I'd be interested to know if the designers had any specific intention here...

The fact they share the guns with the Zeta might suggest a Telgorn design, which is definitely a nice nod (intended or otherwise) towards the people who generally make stormtrooper barges...?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Hmm, isn't kyper crystal still pretty rare and not at all suited for the trillions of laser weapons used throughout the galaxy?

 

Yes it sure is but the Empire has a monopol on it and there exists fake-kyber/kyberite? with some similiar properties but not the big powerful ones as per one novel. Also Legends had many crystals for lightsabers and not just kyber, so the crystal explanation worked better in Legends than in canon maybe where color properties were not limited to kyber and the bearer's inner state determining the lightsaber's color.

I mean, I can buy into the gas explanation, but find it very illogical that Rebels always use different gas than the Empire. What about other Rebel craft liberated from the Empire? Like Nebulon-B's and else? Did we ever see them shoot red or green lasers? Would Rebels switch the gas just to have it look consistent? Or because they use up the last green gas quick and only got red left?





Unrelated to that:
Regarding a certain new episode:

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Scaling-wise... is it only me or did the Slave 1 look rather too small compared to the Arquiten? Or the Arquiten too large compared to it? Or was that just angle visual trickery?

 

Well mistery's solved; I agree about the turrets/Telgron connection, would be a nice nod.

 

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Is it really an Arquitens-class light cruiser?

 

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Maybe at this point we should consider that the Arquitens-class light cruiser has a bigger cousin, the Arquiten-class Cruiser (no light in there).

 

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those all have art or existing stats that would take away from being what is on screen....so to me at least...it needs to be something that has not been defined by art or specific stats like length.

 

One small detail I noticed in Squadrons MC-75 hangar, they modelled the platform Vader was standing on at the end of Rogue One



Also there appears to be more hangars (or at least hangar looking doors) on the sides. One on the left and right walls.

 

I just had to check that Nebulon B's are still originally Imperial designs in canon. Because they never looked even vaguely Imperial to me, and they have been absolute mainstays of multiple Rebel fleets across decades in canon whilst never once showing up as Imperial. But according to the Wook there's still a nominal thing about them being Imperial-commissioned. I still don't like it, though!

 

I could be wrong but I think I've read somewhere that the CR90 and Nebulon-B used to be employed on escort duty for convoys before they were replaced by other ships (before ANH or even Rebels presumably), when most of them were probably sent to be scrapped or sold to PSFs and the Alliance could steal them.
About the looks, I like to think that our recent Gozanti look gave us a good idea of what an "imperialised" ship could look like: visible armor plating, heavier weapons, additional hangars/docking stations and so on; perhaps that's what we can expect an imperial CR-90/Nebulon to look like. An older example could be the visual differences between a "stock" z95 and the model used in the Republic navy, which makes me think X-Wings may have looked quite a bit different had they been in production for the Empire.

 

Kinda like the Prequels had TPMs Consular-class cruiser upgraded to military vessel with weapon additions and a more armored cockpit pod section visually distinct. So your idea is fact I think indeed. Games of old even had lots of beefed up Imperial Corellian Corvette variants which where blockier and reinforced but in more pixelated styles. The Imperialized Nebulon-B we already had designed at length earlier in this topic.

As for Imperial X-Wings, I do imagine them painted grey/black like an xg1 Assault Star Wing, but with black-R2 domes. Cargo compartment below may be replaced with an enlarged ordenance storage for way more missiles. Wing panels with solar-collection tech like in Tie's. And a removed life support system in favor of helmeted pilots makes space for other mods. And if the Empire keeps R2 and hyperdrive only for longrange or special mission craft, they may even get more space for heavier ordenance.

Ok now I imagine an Imperial X-Wing carrying a Probot in the droid socket it can deploy... now that'd look neat. Artists, you are needed for visuals!

 

I mean, I can see that and it's totally plausible, but it just seems unnecessary given what we see onscreen. Over and over again the Rebels have these types of ships, visually representing a lot of diverse design aesthetics, and the Imperials have those ships, representing a (pretty much) uniform aesthetic that's different. New canon has put more and more of this onscreen and there've been plenty of opportunities for them to stick a Neb-B, either an Imperialized version or the familiar one, in an Imperial lineup, but they've stuck with Gozantis and wedgy variants like the Arquitens and Interdictors. My feeling is that that's the visual language they're sticking with, and there's no real reason to imagine Imperialized versions of typically Rebel-associated ships. I'd bet that if they wanted to beef up Imperial fleets onscreen, you'd be more likely to see new models of things like the Victory class that already fit the Imperial aesthetic than a re-dress of something that's indicated "Rebel ship" since 1980 and has done so even more in the Disney era.

Seemingly the place where we'll really see the early Imperial aesthetic first will be "Bad Batch". It's already a bit of a mess, with Rebels showing "early" scout walkers and AT-ATs close to the OT, while chronologically earlier sources like the comics and Fallen Order pretty much have the OT Imperial designs ready within a few years of Order 66, so who knows. I don't really weep for the paucity of use of the V-wing because it strikes me as a weak design, but some kind of in-between TIE precursor would have been nice.

 

Maybe the Imperial Nebulons were due to design aesthetic less military action used and more support craft for medical and other purposes.

But I even could see a Nebulon redesigned to look more wedge-y. Just add some small wing-sections next to the engine section (like the Pelta has f.e.) and a flat wedge going forward from them like the Quasarfire-class has. I'd look like a tiny wedge with a bulkier aft and an Eclipse-class like forward tip with downward decks.

 

Here's another example that came to mind:

 

Please don't embed images directly from Wookieepedia (or any Wikia/Fandom page). They won't show up for others (unless the image is already in their cache). I think it's some sort of Anti-Hotlinking feature.

 

It usually works for me if I use IMG tags and strip out all the "Revision" stuff at the end.

Example.

 

Excellent points.

It does bug me that rebels and some other sources stated outright that no imperial fighter has a hyperdrive, because Obi-Wan calling out the TIE as a short range fighter implied that there were long range fighters that could have followed from Tatooine.

And yeah, I thought about mentioning that scene. None of the roles and specializations we take for granted seem to be well supported by the movies. But I suppose there wasn't much point in having all the fighters be more or less identical, so roles were created.

And speaking of Endor: despite a famous scene that established the interceptor as better than the fighter in fans' minds, on a rewatch the interceptor seems to have a much worse kill loss ratio against rebel fighters at Endor than regular ties.

Wow, that is some really impressive dedication to detail right there.

And personally I don't like how homogenized things are becoming - that every imperial fighter has to be tie, every capital ship a wedge, nearly every ground vehicle a walk named AT-something. And that every Rebel/Republic/Resistance capital ship has to be a mon cal, every medium a neubla, and every small a corellian corvette.
Thankfully imperial transports still come in some variety (if Rogue One had introduced its cargo barges before Rebels had the imperials use Gozantis, I fear all imperial transports would have designs based off the shuttles), and we still get some imperial tanks every once and while in addition to walkers.
(Oddly, rebel tanks don't seem to appear anymore - I suppose because the movies never established an aesthetic for them, but I feel the EU had a somewhat consistent look for them down to draw upon)

I miss the days of strike and carrack cruisers, of assault gunboats, howlrunners and A-9 viligences, of imperials with corellian corevettes and new republic star destroyers, of missions of imperial and rebel nebula-bs squaring off, of v-wings and arc-170s in imperial colors...
I especially hate, hate how the quasar-fire got turned into an imperial ship just because it was pointy.
(And to say nothing about how this goes back in time and makes the Sith use a lot of imperial looking designs while the ancient republic uses Rebel/Clone Wars Republic designs.)

I mean, it is a civil war - they should be using a lot of the same designs! And it is a big galaxy with a lot of companies to buy from, why should all the designs from different companies meet the same aesthetics - or even in a big enough company, why shouldn't certain ships with specific roles have different looks?

Edit: Though all that said, the fan Imperial-nebula isn't bad, and kind of reminds me of the look of the bigger, modified nebulas imperials used more often in the X-Wing and TIE games.