Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Ouch, had no idea, I'd fix the post but I cannot edit it anymore;
the pictures were the regular and imperial (as seen in Rebels) variant of the Dreadnaught-class.

 

Does this work for you?

 

I head canon that the angular Imperial Support Vessel is just a refit of the dreadnought. The Empire needed ships and instead of building from scratch refit tens of thousands of existing dreadnoughts. I base this on the Thrawn comic adaption showing the curved design.

 

It is pretty clear at least that the Rebels art designers were using the Dreadnought as a basis when doing the ISV - the blocks are in almost exactly the locations of the blisters - and have the same sizes - 3 large and 2 small.

 

It is the dreadnought though...that is how it is listed in Ultimate Star Wars or some such.

 

This is what Wook says about its naming in the new canon:

Also, the EU version of the design shows up in the comic adaptation of the first Thrawn novel.

 

that's why I head canon it the way I do...both versions showed up in canon sources.

 

A bit of a rant, but I don't like how a lot of artists think that to make something look imperial they have to make all major surfaces angular; by removing any smooth or curved surfaces from the design. The rebels Dreadnaught is a great example of this, it removes every rounded surfaces, making the ship look blocky and low poly, and at least in my opinion, makes it lose some of its charm that the curves gave it.

Now on to Mandalorian stuff.

Spoiler

With the latest episode we got a look at the top of the ship and one thing I noticed is that the bow cutout widens at the back, potentially confirming the forward hangar seen in the Topps card.

We also get to see more of the bridge (interior and exterior). Unfortunately it appears that the exterior may not match the interior set.
The interior set appears to have only one side alcove window on each side, compared to three on the exterior (the concept art from the siege shows this better)

and at least to me, the middle section looks wider and has more curved sides compared to the exterior.

 

Spoiler

It's not necessarily true that there is only one window on the sides. There could be a window behind the "pillar" the stormtrooper is standing in front of and/or a window or two on the other side of the wall on the right.

 

So we have an impressionistic inconsistency between the interior and exterior bridge design that renders precise scaling from one to the other impossibe....?!

That's genius!!

Fixed.

This makes sense - this sort of angular design simplification is actually a historical feature of mass-production warships. For comparison, an early-variant and late-variant version of the standard IJN convoy-defense ship of '41-'45...




I've always headcanoned that the Nebulon-B is actually an Ubrikkian (Hutt) design that is sold to the Empire as a KDY design because KDY own Ubrikkian (just as the US Navy's most numerous individual warship class, the Tacoma-class frigate, was actually designed for the Royal Navy by Smith's Dock of Middlesborough, England)... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't imagine a more angular and "simplified" Nebulon variant in Imperial service...

Fair point. The line in Specter of the Past about trying to attack an ISD with Telgorn Pacifiers would be even funnier if they're dropships, but an H-10 can't carry more than six people including crew.

Bizarrely, that's the third thing I've looked up in Planet of Twilight today. Glancing through again, I see that Daala's Sentinel has a "forward lounge", furnished with a viewport and a mini-bar.

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Sounds like something she'd do.

 

Looks fine to me:

Spoiler

3 windows in a line, then an almost triangular window at an angle, much less brightly lit, then the big central window, then repeat on the other side

 

yes..it takes some digging to find one with the right vagueness...

 

Even if they don't name it after another design, I wouldn't be surprised if the in-universe manufacturer was one of them.

They've been consistent about that, like the Imperial Tanks in Rogue One were made by Rothana, which is consistent with them making tanks in the EU.

Spoiler

The troop transport will probably be made by Sienar to tie it to the First Order one.

 

Ian Frazier (Squadons) was on stream with Eckhart today, and he reiterated that the ships in the game are to the scale LucasFilm gave them. He does say what I have been saying, that the movie makers will cheat scale if it's better for the shot.

He does wish that at some point that LucasFilm would go through every ship and give them a definite scale, so that ships that are supposed to fit inside other ships actually do fit and all that.

 

Sounds interesting @Tuskin38! I'll have to go find and watch it.

Well we still have two episodes left, so I'm hoping to be proven wrong (already thinking I'm wrong on some things, after having a closer look at some of the scenes).

Spoiler

You could be right, I've been having a closer look at higher def screencaps and there could be enough space behind the pillar/console for some more windows - the pillar itself looks to be mounted against the forward wall (it's inline with the bottom step of the bridge), which would give a bit less space, but not all the side windows are the same size, so might not be too big a problem.

Spoiler

It's more the angles between the small triangular window and the 3 other windows on the central section that I was talking about. On the exterior there looks to me to be a hard angle between the small triangular window and the 3 side windows. While in the interior all 4 side windows appear to be part of one gently curve.

 

I figure the "gentle curve" is due to it being face-on, and it would be somewhat less gentle and more angular seen up close.

 

The implication is that these are standard fittings for the crew. But yes, she's using the space for grandstanding...

Agreed. I want to enthuse about a couple of your suggestions, but I need to flick through some old WEG stuff first to make sure I've not missed some details...?

Spoiler

Why am I thinking there's a reference in somthing shuttle-related to Sienar taking over Telgorn...?

Spoiler

I don't think there's enough space on the physical set for those bridge wings. You could argue that they're the "impressionistic" part and the spaces are actually wider, but that's just the same argument from another angle, and as you say, the exterior of the forward section looks more angular.

Rewatching the episode, the circular "docking arms" no longer appear to have conventional docking hatches at either end, which definitely suggests a slight upscaling, too. That said, until we get precise scaling figures we're really just speculating, the ship looks completely awesome, and if need be, I can always headcanon a slight hull enlargement between subtypes...

To be clear, my preference is that all light cruisers are 215 m or whatever the right bridge-scaling is for the REBELS one, and I don't think the bridge of the live-action version is particularly incompatible, but I'm mostly just enjoying this...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Spoiler

Not sure if that was sarcasm but Telgorn is an associate of Sienar in canon, according to the RO visual guide. They made the Zeta-Class shuttle. Need to check the book myself but the wook indicates only the Zeta class had Sienar involvement while Telgorn's Eta-Class Barge was solely their product.

Love this neat detail from Starships and Speeders

 

Ah, the good old Rendili Dreadnaught! I was at one time close to figuring out a partial deckplan of it, and even did - in pencil - part of the forward area (4 metre tall decks, 16 in total, but with platforms and crewpits in the command area) and was lots of details in the Zhan books, too.
All I was missing was some noclip screen captures of the Jedi Academy Byss Rescue level, which was a somewhat refit ship. Don't suppose somebody could oblige?

The three largest blisters all had heavy turbolasers (two each back to back in the upper ones, per that picture of the Battle of Nar Shaddaa) and the comm. blister lower down. Quite a lot of detail to work from, considering it began as a simple two-D sketch.

 

Just to be clear, that wasn't sarcasm - that was a genuine curiosity - I had a vague idea that there was something in one of the sourcebooks about corporate evoluion, which corresponded to the switch from Telgorn being characterised in old lore as the standard OT-era manufacturer of stormtrooper dropships and such-like, to Sienar as the badge-marque for the ones we see in the First Order...

Your Rogue One reference may be exactly what I was thinking of!

I don't have anything very useful to add (except to admit some curiosity - which picture of Nar Shaddaa are you thinking of?)... but I really like this sort of analysis!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

It'd be the one in The Essential Chronology mk 1, wouldn't it?

 

Ah I see. So the guide only remarks on the connection by saying they "pooled resources to create the Zeta-class shuttle" The manufacturer tab on the data file only lists Telgorn. The engine block is identified as "Sienar Fleet Systems sublight drive system" but nothing further. The Eta is never given a cross-section or even image in the book, so I cannot really say for sure if it is supposed to be Sienar partnering as well, but I'd assume it was just the engine.

Those are the only ships they are credited with in canon.I wouldn't be shocked if they began to do dropships once dedicated troop transports where needed.

 

"pooled resources...." could mean different things....did their design teams collaborate and both built it? Did Sienar design and need additional manufacturing capability so sourced out to Telgorn to build their design?

Or was it the other way around...The Wook has this....

but is sourced as a RPG book so canonicity would be suspect.

 

Wook's loose stance on canon bugs me. "Anything after 2016 that isn't Lego or explicitly denied by LucasFilm is canon!"

So they have all the RPG books, a trading card game that was released just a few months after the wipe (so they have Kyle Katarn as canon because he was a card).