Books The Official Darth Plagueis Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Darth Plagueis is the first EU novel I've read, and it's also my favourite one. (It might sound strange, but I didn't even know the existence of EU before reading Darth Plagueis)
However, I don't quite understand the process of Plagueis' experiments.... How dose he and Palpatine bring life to Anakin Skywalker? Isn't Shmi too far away from them to be influenced by their experiments?
Perhaps I should read the novel again to figure this out, but it takes too much time since English is not my mother language.

 

Basically, Palpatine and Plagueis attempt to 'unbalance' the Force, shifting it towards the Dark Side. Anakin's birth is a reaction to that, producing a child to 'balance the scales' back to the Light (eventually). The fact that it was Shmi who had the child seems to be entirely random.

 

In a galaxy of darkness and chaos after the defeat of the Sith, centuries after and still a Republic and Jedi struggling to reconnect and reunite the galaxy that formally saw a Ruusan Reformation only but practically it takes centuries to go into effect everywhere. There still is war, Mandalorians rampant, various Dark Side cults on the loose like Sith offshoots and others tainted by the long war of the Sith.

And in that time Yoda is born and trained rising to champion the Jedi and push back the darkness. But as Light rises against the dark, so does his equal on the dark side secretly sheming following the Rule of Two...

Which Sith again were active during Yodas early years post Zannah and Co? How many did rise and fall in Yodas life alone!

 

@Sauron_18

I'm sure we've talked about this in the past...But I do wonder how much of George intended for Plagueis and the tale Palpatine told to be real and not just that...a legend.

Like I do think it's kinda interesting to think of the Legend of Plagueis just being a legend and not Palpatine telling his own life story.

Granted I do think Canon has pretty much gone with yes...Palpatine is giving away his own life story.

Although I do wonder now in Canon how much of Plagueis timeline is pulled back since it seems like (As of now) that Plagueis was NOT around during the events of Phantom Menace like he was in Legends.

 

That’s interesting. What if it was all a lie and we know less than next to nothing about Plagueis? I think Palpatine probably was telling the truth generally, because Anakin as a Jedi must have some truth-sense. But that does make me wonder how much Anakin knows of his own conception? How much does he know of the prophecy and what the Jedi knew or believed about him? If he was aware of these things, then it would make sense for Palpatine to make up that lie, to make Anakin wonder if perhaps he is more connected to the Sith than he knew. Though of course, he mainly seems to care about the ability to keep others from dying.

 

True, but also I mean without the EU material both Legends and Canon (And without any cut material that may be in older drafts of the Revenge of the Sith drafts) the Plagueis story is just that...a story...no real confirmation that Palpatine was the apprentice.

Now granted Palpatine does go "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved" when Palpatine has Anakin and it does kinda seem that he's telling the truth here given the way he behaves...But again...Without that EU material it is just a legend.

 

I think the acting choices by McDiarmid do give the impression that Palpatine was the apprentice in the story. That little self-satisfied smirk he has when he talks about the irony of Plagueis’ death.

 

Oh I'm sure that was most likely the intent of the piece but I do think the ambiguity (No matter how limited it might be given Ian McDiarmid own performance and most likely Lucas's own ideas) does make it a interesting "What If" is the legend of Plagueis was just that...A Legend.

Though it being real is just as neat and I've been cool with it of course.

 

Seeing your "What if" I was wondering if SW could ever do a "What if" animated show like Marvel got upcoming for the MCU. Kinda Infinities and other what if's in noncanon weekly animated webshorts or full episodes. Heck even some Legends ones maybe...


As for Plagueis the Wise's legend... you have to wonder why the story was told to Anakin:

1) Sith reveal obviously is one popular opinion
2) Palpatine bragging how he killed his Master? Sure on first glance, but on second? He isn't one to brag or tell his future apprentice how to kill a Master. Despite killing in his sleep sounds not as heroic and rather weak for an apprentice that could not do so in the open.
3) A hidden purpose in the story? Most likely!

The bit about saving loved ones from death is what pulled Anakin in, the lure. The being unable to save oneself though part was not needed if it were only about luring Anakin to want that power. It establishes that he can only learn it through Palpatine, sure, but aside that, it might tease the idea of how and when to defeat the SIth once he learned the power from him.

Did Palpatine thus set Anakin up to at some future point try to kill him in his sleep? Only that he would be prepared and take over Anakins body then as he tried with others in TROS and Dark Empire?

If that part of the story has anything to do with body hopping, we could be looking not at Palpatine bragging but Plagueis talking through Palpatine into who he hopped successfully.

 

It certainly seems to be part of the full temptation. Not only can a Sith Lord gain great power, they can take it too when the time is right. He’s promising Anakin everything right there, even if Anakin’s only really consciously tempted by the power to save others from dying. What his heart is really tempted by is the power, period.

And in the realm of What Ifs, a story featuring a Vader who was not defeated in Mustafar would be fascinating. The Darth Vader we know is terrifying, but he was a tragic figure, and he’s only a remnant of the Sith Lord he had the potential to become.

One of the cool things about the Sith in the movies is that we really only see one fully powerful Sith Lord, Darth Sidious. He has several apprentices and potential apprentices, who kill each other off and never continue the Sith legacy. But Sidious is the only Sith Master, though we see glimpses of how Vader could have been even stronger. That says a lot about what terrifying heights Vader could have reached, possibly Sidious did think he would learn to cheat death. But it also says a lot about those who came before Sidious, the old Sith Masters like Plagueis who paved the way to power for the Devil we know.

I do think Sidious cared about the Sith legacy, and that his line in Revenge about Vader becoming more powerful than either Yoda or him was genuine. It resonates well with Return, too, because it shows us that in Luke he sees the potential for the true future of the Sith.

 

Whether the Plagueis Legend authentic or spurious matters little in the end as it served its purpose in ROTS and the six parts it concludes. End of story and needn't be discussed further.

But when viewed in the context of future content, or parts beyond the six, then its relevance strikes at the center of SW. What was the essence of Anakin's nature, what does that nature represent in myth and how is that relevant to his descendants? The ST declined to take up the challenge of these questions and IMHO I think that a major, legitimate criticism leveled at its creators.

I also think it instructive, if you want to get the the purpose of the Plagueis story, to consider similar narrative device and visual language within the Lucas conception of STAR WARS if you want to even come close to understanding the purpose of the opera scene outside of and beyond Episode III and the six parts preceding. Certainly improbable to guess exactly, but without such consideration it's entirely fruitless.

One point to consider when discussing the PT and the Plaguies novel is Lucas's willingness to explore and define Palpatine's origins and character. After the PT and the Luceno publication it was obvious Lucas was comfortable with the demystification of a character once shrouded in mystery and as he once described as "evil personified". I would suggest that this created a vacuum or a narrative space for the development of a character with similar traits as the Emperor Palpatine in the original STAR WARS. That, of course, and the fact that by the time we heard Papatine's account of The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise we already understood his fate.

 

IDK

Ben Solo died doing the one thing Anakin couldn't...Prevented someone he cared about from dying but through self sacrifice

Makes you wonder if the Force Drain stuff from DOTF and later in TROS was their attempt to bring in that Plagueis stuff in.

 

If Plagueis could only save his loved ones by spending his own lifeforce on them and weakening himself, then yes, that explains how he could be killed in his sleep and why Palpatine never learned the secret, never understood what one had to give to save others from death. Palpatine would never give from his own lifeforce. Anakin would have if he'd had known. Though one may think Palpatine used the Force like that to connect Anakin to himself to keep him alive till in surgery on Coruscant after Mustafar! So did Palpatine know and use it to save Anakin but never told him that this was practically it?

Technically, Plagueis novel story aside, Plagueis the Wise could have been the first Sith that nearly fell to the Light Side due to realizing the path to eternal life and immortality all Sith seek is essentially to have someone who loves you and would share all lifeforce he/she got for you. The only thing Palpatine would never do or have and thus could never learn from him.

Rey killed Kylo and brought him back to life after a mortal stabbing wound on the Death Star before he would have crossed over into the Netherworld. Kylo saved her life on Exegol and faded away then. They both used the power. Rey used it like Anakin would have, after choking Padmé to heal her seeing his error. Kylo used it like Anakin would have without the choking error, seflessy giving his all so she and the twins would live.

 

Anakin sacrificially saved Luke and didn’t make the same mistake twice.

They danced around Plagueis, midichlorians and the Netherworld. Hell, The Clone Wars braved far more in terms of exposition of the like than anything the ST had to offer.

In terms of any ‘Force Drain’ (kind of an awkward term), one might consider Padme’s death as an implicit reference point for such a concept. Her death ‘lost the will to live’ is suspicious.


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So I finished the book. It is good, no shock. It is both an overview and a view behind the curtain of the PT, pre TPM. It ties in with the other Luceno books and stuff beyond. I mean we get a lot of references to Bounty Hunter. I think the only thing not referenced are the Vong.

so here is my full read through spoilered for size

Spoiler

We open with a lot of poetic imagery of Palpatine having just unleashed power and come into his own. He has killed his master the titular Darth Plagueis. Even reflecting that his master could save others from death but not himself.

Palpatine then reflects on how the future is a moving target. But also that he never learned how Plagueis killed his own master. So Palpatine reaches into the force to peak back the decades to learn.


Decades earlier we see Plagueis and said master on a remote back water world (that will be important in the future) rich in ore, the same kind Darth Bane minded before joining the Sith. They are have a droid study the ore and it confirms what the master was told, though he does not say who told him.

The prob finds a gas pocket, they tell it to dig elsewhere, which leads to a bigger gas pocket. It won’t turn off and ignites the gas, Plagueis is nice to the droid as it dies. His master is caught in the explosion and Plagueis hurts him. Though this does allow his ship to be destroyed.


They talk, with Plagueis learning the name of the mining company that gave the info “ subtext” subtle.

His master rebukes him for letting the ship be destroyed. Plagueis breaks his neck and watches the midichlorans as he dies. He also mentions a Sith turning to the light and destroying a lot of Sith knowledge.

Plagueis sees the ship is broken and with no way to fix it he takes what is useful then leaves. Making his way a long the shore reflecting upon the stark beauty of the place. He moves at night and avoids the locals heading to the main space port.

He senses another near his power a challenger.

Otherwise his trip is without incident, blood sucking insects aside, and he boards a freighter bound for Ithor.


We meet the crew of the ship Plagueis snuck aboard.
Then the Sith Lord reveals himself and makes them an offer.

The captain says she needs to talk it over with the crew, confusing him. He also says he doesn’t gamble unless the odds are in his favour.

We see this discussion through the eyes of the med droid 11-4d. They decide to ask about the Muun they have, when the captain tells him Plagueis he kills them all. Then tells 11 to set a course and make him food and heal his wound.

Plagueis also examines the MCs as the crew die, while thinking how the Sith of old used death to power themselves.

The ship comes to a space station, where the old ship is slagged and her gets a new one to go to Muunilinst. Upon arrival he gets down to business, informing his ally that Bith ( his master) is dead. (We also see a Tonith and hill.) and that they need to get mining rights to a planet and he plans his meetings at a social event.

He then arrives home to his lab and sets 11 to work cataloguing things. While he thinks about the MCs life death and the history of the Sith.


We open on the sounds of hunts in a moon.

This is place of secret gathering and strange happenings. A secret society of lodges and hunts and mocking the Republic, with hidden Sith meaning.

Here Plagueis meets Gardulla the Hutt who seeks to move on Tatooine. She wants money to do it and will make a podracing course and pay him back by making him a silent partner in the profits. He agrees if she helps his dug ally make peace with black sun on nar shadda. She relents.

Then Plagueis meets the Yinchorr, and finds he cannot influence their minds. He agrees to help in exchange for a favour. Then he talks with the Gran and then subtex mining. Who he very bluntly threatens to kill until they give him info about plasma on a planet called Naboo.

We also learn that Plagueis tells people in this meeting that they plan to make the Republic an Oligarchy. Late at night he is attacked by another Sith a secret apprentice of his old master. He defeats this assassin and then keeps him suspended in bacta and unconscious.

Plagueis then thinks about the Sith and reflects on how he came into the Sith.

He was born on mygeeto and soon discovered he was different. His master had arranged his parents meeting and then took him as payment for helping his father climb higher socially.


Plagueis learns of 3 others that are a threat to him and heads off to deal with them, first is off to casino. Meeting management and talking with them, Plagueis finds someone in the midst of a winning streak and that he is using the force to do it. He and 11 then note he is likely a shapeshifter. They follow him out of the casino and see him send money to a spaceship engineer. They disable his shapeshifter and then leave him telling him he has one last chance to win and then run.


We get a rundown on Saleucami, and how a prophet has established themself. Plagueis goes in disguise as a pilgrim and sees the female Iktochi prophet. She talks, in vague terms about the clone wars and the rise of the empire and then preaches the use Sith knowledge and thinking. Plagueis likes this but it is the old way. He is then greeted as “a muun of wealth and taste” ( perhaps allow him to introduce himself), by the prophet. He then reveals himself and uses the force to kill her.

Plagueis then goes to Bedlam to meet a crazy person. Turns out he escaped with help. Plagueis tracks him to a marsh planet and two Jedi have the trail. Plagueis tells the crazy to kill them, but they kill him.

So a shapeshifter, a prophet and a murderer. Spy, wizard, warrior. Venamis would have had an interesting crew.

Moving along Plagueis is meeting with Verunna who is asking for his help. Plagueis plans to make Naboo a base of operations.

In general terms Verunna is for opening up and the other side for not. The other side has a leak from a young man named Palpatine.

I am sure it’s nothing.


Plagueis comes to Naboo and brings a cold winter.
Plagueis meets Verunna and we learn that while Plagueis likes humans, he hates that they lower themselves through equality.

Verunna shows himself to be much more a leader than the current candidate.

Plagueis then goes to meet Palpatine, he does and they talk.
It is interesting to read this both originally and now knowing the revelation at the end.
Knowing this reads a Palpatine making himself interesting to Plagueis, his request to report directly to him for instance.

I also like the idea of Palpatine as a street racer. Something he and Anakin share.

As they drive we learn of Palpatines past, petty crime, moved from private school to private school, he killed to pedestrians in a crash.

He also wants strong leadership for the Republic. Likely a true statement, given his later actions.

They talk more and Plagueis wonders if Palpatine has the force.

Days later Plagueis is still thinking of him even as event move on. We learn that Plagueis once wanted a Gran as Chancellor to manipulate him, but no longer.

Plagueis returns to Naboo and is taken by armed guards to Cosinga Palpatine. They trade barbs. Cosinga says that Verunna is too greedy to be king and if Plagueis doesn’t break his deal he will suffer consequences, likely death. Since house Palpatine are one of the 6 gates holding back Chaos.

Plagueis goes to see Palpatine, who is still being mentored by the deputy senator, no plans for politics indeed, and they talk. Palpatine gets angry and Plagueis is shocked by his power. Palpatine also admits he wants power, if not that nothing.

Plagueis tells a story of how he grew up, not fully in his clan, an outsider, until his siblings died in ways he may have encouraged.

Palpatines father comes and picks him up in a space ship. They argue and Palpatine kills everyone on there.


Plagueis and 11 start cutting up Venamis examining his organs. When he senses a bust of dark side power and receives a call, from Palpatine who tells him he just killed everyone. Plagueis congratulates him.


A week later they meet and talk. No evidence was found, thus no crime. Palpatine is angry and his anger sets his power free, Plagueis sees and he wants this power, as an ally.

Plagueis even talks about the dark side as the quickest route, though not without danger. He then asks what Palpatine knows about the Sith, Palpatine says they are a Jedi sect and evil.

Palpatine is unimpressed, saying if he wanted too he could have joined the Jedi years ago. Jedi Palpatine would be interesting.

Palpatine senses Plagueis power and asks to join him. Plagueis agrees and in a scene mirroring Anakins in Revenge of the Sith, he pledges himself to the Sith and is named Sidious. And so it begins


Plagueis has Palpatine freezing on Mygeeto. He explains this is to get him out of his comfort zone. Plagueis talks about how the dark side will destroy and remake him.

He has Sidious tell his murder over and over agin until he sees it without emotion.

Plagueis goes on to say that no fallen Jedi lie to themselves about the dark side making them do stuff that the Sith act from themselves outwards.

A Sith apprentice has to feel pain and hate their master as well as desiring their power.

Plagueis says it will not take less than a decade to train Palpatine.


Plagueis and Sidious are hunting animals, with blade, having been apprentice for 11 years. Sidious is learning to see through the enemy eyes. Plagueis says they are doing nature’s work by culling the gears and their own by sharpening their skills. Enlightened self interest it seems.

Plagueis talks about being married to the dark. How amorality is the truth of the force, that the Jedi prevent progress. Sidious asks if the force will change him, Plagueis says it might.

They are next practicing defensive moves with a lightsaber on Hypori, owned by Wat Tambor, who owes Plagueis.

Then they talk about how the old Sith tombs are used up and empty, at least in Plagueis view. Sidious needs to focus on his teachings.

The two then go to a primitive planet and fight the natives, then kill one. Plagueis says that the other beings know they will improve their lives so they bow. But an age of war is coming to cleanse the galaxy of the decay, from the Republic and the Jedi.

Plagueis then says that a clever politician is more dangerous than any warrior. Politics is where true power lies, so Sidious must become that. And they both must become beasts.


Palpatine is picking up a woman while at dinner. He offers her number to his friend Doriana, who refuses.

Palpatine reflects how his wealth and public face are a mask his true power is in the force. Something being honed by denial.

Senator Kim comes over and they talk, evidently Palpatine is a frequenter of women’s beds as they travel. Conquests as Kim calls them.

Kim as been Palpatines political mentor for years and he has a son in the Jedi. Plagueis said to get closer with him “give order to the future by attending it with your thoughts”.
Palpatine joins the senator and his group, they discuss podracing and Tatooine, Palpatine having been there recently. Kim says it is too remote to have any effect on galactic affairs.

Kim is against the Trade Federation (TF), Ranulph Tarkin says that they allowed the TF to get so big.

Palpatine is asked for his opinion and walks a middle ground, subtly undermining Kim and offering nothing of substance.

Then Kim gets a call. His, wife and sons (except the Jedi) are all dead.

At the funeral Palpatine talks with Verunna. They talk about how voting against the TF in the senate might be a good idea since it would cost them nothing. Verunna wants to make a fleet of fighters to chase the TF out of Naboo space.

Plagueis is playing mad scientist on a Yinchorri. He thinks that they evolved their immunity to force suggestion as a means to protect them.

He then begins musing about immortality and thinks of Emperor Vitiate. How those old Sith had tried to take life from others rather than go to the midi-chloeians.


Palpatine finds Maul.

On Sojourn a gathering is happening. Alliances formed and plans hatched.

Plagueis talks of the plan and Sidious questions him.

Plagueis continues to exposit his plans and Palpatine refines then.

Sidious rules out assassins due to the numbers needed. Plagueis rules out an army, they need to create a galaxy where war and barbarism is the norm. Sidious says they need to make the Jedi the enemy of peace and justice, lure them into a trap of their own making.

Plagueis says ok Sidious will be supreme chancellor, Sidious offers humility, Plagueis says he will be co-chancellor. Sidious says he will be know as Darth Plagueis the Wise.


Plagueis tells one of his fist mission. When he used the force to assassinate someone while making it look like a badly made meal. He also shortly chocking Sidious, to give him a taste of what the victim suffered. He also mentions the GenoHaradan are mentioned, would be interesting to see them battle the Sith.


He then sends Sidious to kill senator Kim.


Palpatine makes his way through theed, thinking on his order to kill Kim. Plagueis has said that the Sith are better than Jedi because they are not afraid to feel.

Palpatine also has to learn that his actions have consequences, in encouraging Kim to stand against the TF he has sealed his fate. Palpatine resolves to be meticulous in his future plans.


He also ponders the assassination plan. It is to be public a message, but to whom? It could paint the TF in a bad light, since they would be suspected.

Palpatine meets with Kim who accuses Verunna and the current king of killing his family. Palpatine listens but is unconvinced. Kim says he will tell the Jedi or the senate, Palpatine just asks to be kept informed.

Outside Palpatine meets Sate Pestage. His leg man for arranging the hit. Palpatine gives him Kims schedule and tells him to use the Maladians. Sate will contact Palpatine when it is done.


Meanwhile Plagueis is meeting some Kaminoans. They are discussing the Yincorri. Plagueis wants to know if they can be made to obey while still being violent, he is told no. They talk about some other species, humans might do. They ask what he needs the clones for and he says an army, they say they can try to make the Yincorri work. They will need time, 12 years to make clones and need specialists to help. Plagueis agrees to help arrange this, fund their expansion and an arrangement with Rothana heavy engineering.


Palpatine is watching the assassination on the news, a Jedi was almost hit and thinks he was the target, the assassin killed herself. The senate is scared and now Palpatine releases that this was the message Plagueis wanted to send. With the job done he invites Sate into his circle.

We open with a look at Coruscant, a den of self indulgence, unrivalled. Palpatine loves the place. He realises that the only way to save the Republic is to move the capital.

To blend in all he need do is, dress correctly eat in right places and keep his membership to the opera up to date.

Palpatine gets his apartment, and has his art in there and his hidden lightsaber.

He finds his first official duty, funeral attendance, appropriate given the Siths plans.

At the funeral Sate and Kinman hit it off.

Palpatine speaks with Kim’s Jedi son and talks him out of leaving the order. Palpatine thinks this Jedi is less interested in solving the murder than in angsting about his lose. Palpatine makes a friend.

Meanwhile on Serenno, Plagueis has a meeting. Also attending is Jocasta Nu, Sifo-Dyas, Jinn and Dooku. We learn that Dooku had thwarted Sith plans in the past. Plagueis plans to turn Dooku, maybe use him to schism the Jedi. During a break in the meeting, Dooku mentions a dislike of privatisation. Jinn does not like Plagueis or his company, the two spar (with words), Dooku blames the Republic. Jinn leaves and Dooku, Sifo, and Plagueis all talk about the state of the galaxy, how change is needed but unlikely to come and difficult to get. They then talk around this issue of the Jedi becoming an army. Plagueis then heard Palpatines words in his head and decides that maybe his clone army should fight WITH the Jedi not against it. He and Sifo keep talking and Plagueis mentions clones and Subterrel, a place supplied by Kamino, but he refrains from mentioning the system when Jocasta comes over.


A vote on whether to put corporation worlds in the senate, everyone is looking their best. And naturally there is a lot of late night wining and dining, Palpatine is fine after his night, others less so. Palpatine sees some Jedi and reflects that it is only the unnatural nature of Coruscant that kept it from being strong in the light. He thinks how his power hungry father would feel seeing his son so close to the senate and it’s power.

He is then meet by Jedi Kim who introduces him to Dooku and Sifo. Dooku says he expected some one older, Palpatine replies he disguises himself well, his age that is. They talk and Plagueis joins them. Palpatine wonders if Plagueis intends to replace him. They get called in for the vote.

Palpatine makes a speech in which he mentions that the TF now has legal standing as a planet, similar to the legal personhood corporations enjoy in our world. He then abstains from the vote, due to howxthe investigation into Senator Kim’s death was conducted. The vote passes.

Most are happy new people means new opportunities for corruption.

Sidious goes about his days in the senate his nights exploring Coruscant and his other time reading old Sith times.

He then gets called to a meeting in the lower town. He goes alone, keen to test himself. During the meeting Sidious mind tricks the other and learns he was just sent to talk with him. They drink and Sidious notes the hidden weapons the staff have, the other gets up and so do most patrons, Sidious realises he is about to be victim to some sinister undertaking and is interested.

The staff come and collect him, acting drunk Sidious knows he could kill them, but he wants to know who is behind this, prove himself a Sith. So he plays the victim.

They take him to the works. Past the Pius Dea spaceport. Which is a little messed up they still have a spaceport named after them.

They take him to meet his abdicator and Sidious is, unimpressed. Much to their annoyance. His abductor, Pax lists Sidious support of Plagueis, which leads Sidious to have his enemies at home killed and his past erased.

Pax reveals they plan to kill him. Sidious gets ready for action and then is rescued by the Sun Guard. It turns out the building he was held in is owned by LiMerge Power.

Plagueis says they will speak more when his ceremony is complete.

Plagueis is in a secret society, getting ready to induct a new member. He isn’t a member for fear of people digging to deep into his past.

Plagueis is triumphant, the sun guard are on their way to crush the Gran who kidnapped Sidious and Sidious has done perfectly. Everything was coming up Plagueis.

Then he senses danger and time slows. The new member, Plagueis’s friend, is decapitated, razor disks fly and kill more, wounding him as well, the fight is joined by his guards, who kill some assassins before being dispatched. Plagueis has enough time to realise he was tricked by the Gran.

Coming back to himself Plagueis leaps at the assassins, killing a few with the force and his hands. They switch tactics harrying him and moving in close. Plagueis takes down more but they have him.

When Sidious arrives, with Sate who has a repeating blaster, together they kill the rest. The three (and 11) flee, with Sidious offering to deal with the Gran personally.


Palpatine sneaks into the residence via the roof, assassin creed style.

Then moving with super speed he kills guards and makes his way through the building leaving none alive, not the women nor the young. When he finds the leadership he kills them all saving the big boss for last, him Palpatine burns alive.


It is the codes of silence which bind the Jedi, the Gran and the secret society that prevent them from sharing information and so the investigation into the mass murders goes unsolved.

A month later Plagueis calls Sidious to Muunilinst. Sidious learns of Plagueis experiments. And sees the mask wearing Plagueis. Who references, Malak, Bane and Gravids apprentice, for Sith not weakened by lose of flesh.

Plagueis describes the experiments as things he loves.

Plagueis speaks of the force creating an equal and opposite affect from actions and caution must be taken.


Plagueis now talks of the war coming and how they must stoke it.

Sidious agrees but suggests creating an agent to serve, Maul.


Now onto mastery

Palpatine sites in the senate watch crisis he has stoked blossom into disasters. Though he is far from the only two faced senator, most of them are accepting bribes of one sort or another. Chancellor Valorum is currently speaking warning of a “confederacy of disenfranchised” in the outer rim, turning to the cartels. He now comes to his point, paying mercs to blockade Yincorri space as payback for their expansion. He talks about Dorvalla as another world where war happens, though between the TF and the people of that world. The TF objects and says if the Republic won’t create an army to police the outer systems, then the TF should be allowed to. The debate carries on with more calls for a unified military. Valorum refuses to contend the idea. He is ridged on the Ruusan Reformations being held.

They talk of the Jedi and mention Galidraan. And how it had taken Dooku further out of the order.

Palpatine is hosting party, Valorum arrives and his date/aide Taria seems to dislike Palpatine as they two fence a little, Palpatine says every word of the documentary about him is true from a certain point of view. She leaves and Valorum and Palpatine talk, Palpatine encourages the use of force against Yincorri. They go through Valorum ms allies and enemies, before seeing a storm brewing. They talk how darkness is gathering and that if the outcome is not in the Jedi last grasp, then who’s.


Time skip of 20 years. Sidious is watching Plagueis watching Maul kill droids, which I think is from Shadow Hunter. Plagueis has a breath mask and no longer sleeps.

Sidious recounts how Maul attempted to kill him, which I think comes from his journal. They also talk about the markings which Maul did t himself in the old legends.

They talk about Mauls ship how it will be bright to the LiMerge building on Coruscant.


Plagueis has stepped back since the assassination attempt, becoming a recluse. Sidious takes the lead in manipulation of the galaxy and trained Maul on his own.


They have manipulated the Yincorri into attacking the Jedi. Sidious has revealed his self to his agents directly.

They move onto planing the next crisis.

Sidious says that Gunray is oddly immune to intimidation. Which is interesting. They decide to give him a gift of a bird and that Sidious should reveal himself by name and title.

Plagueis then talks about how the Jedi in becoming marshals have failed since they no longer serve the force but politicians.

They decide to draw Dooku into the dark and push Verunna into position.

We remeet Verunna watching a test of N1 fighters, with two more squadrons on the way. Evidently most Naboo opposes their building I wonder if they changed mind after the battle or gave Verunna any credit, likely not I think.

Verunna plans to end the agreement with the TF. Palpatine warns him that the senate will let them arm. In exchange for taxation on the outer systems. Palpatine says that the TF will win if the vote is passed as it will pass on the tax increase to its customers.

Verunna might be corrupt but he is no push over, he is against Plagueis and warns Palpatine he knows where the bodies are buried.

Time is short


Plagueis has discovered Sith sorcery. He recalls how 10 years ago he and Sidious had matched the midi-chlorians and beaten them subdued the force.

Plagueis also killed and revived his experiment again and again until it fully died.
He then tried to create life, but to no apparent success.

Maul is giving feedback on the Yincorri attack on the Jedi temple. He is unimpressed.

Maul says he could have killed more Jedi. Sidious says he isn’t a one being army. He then has Maul stand back as he calls Gunray.

He reveals himself as a Sith and then convinces Gunray to at least allow him to prove the worth of their partnership. He tells Maul to learn about Dorvalla.


Jabba meets Plagueis on Sojourn. He informs Plagueis that he will take over tatooine. In exchange for help he also gives info about the Bando Gora who are now being lead by Dookus former apprentice.

Palpatine has sent Maul on a mission and is talking with Dooku who wishes to leave the order. Dooku reveals his padawan Vosa has disappeared, she is now leading the Bando Gora, though he is unaware currently. Dooku says that he might join Palpatine, in championing the under privileged, unless it has all been a lie. Dooku says they could be partners, the Republic needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Dooku says the Jedi know darkness is coming but are waiting for a chosen one to stop it. Dooku also says if one more Jedi dies he will leave the order.

Palpatine goes to the space port where me meets Padmes family. They talk about bringing down king Verunna. Padme will run against him, her parents are reluctant, but agree.


We get insight into Mauls mind. He feels disquiet at learning Sidious can be tricked for if he is to die who can Maul carry things forward, he isn’t trained to be a Sith Lord. But he does have a mission coming up something he senses is linked to Naboo.

Speaking of Palpatine he is in a meeting with the King of Naboo, the Head (Underlord to give proper title) of Black Sun, Gardulla the Hutt and members of the Bando Gora. Palpatine is informed that after the election he will be fired. And that Plagueis will be removed. But that Palpatine will not be seeing him again.

We see said Muun fishing up packing up his place on Sojourn and getting into the infiltrator as enemy warships arrive.

A short battle erupts and ends when his enemies Nuke his place.

Jabba arrives and picks Plagueis up.


Palpatine calls in on Plagueis when the later arrives on Coruscant.

Plagueis says the destruction of his old place was needed, so the force provided.

They discuss the final plan for the invasion of Naboo and revenge. Maul will deal with Black Sun, Jabba the other Hutt and Plagueis Verunna.

Sidious gives instructions to Maul, more detailed than in the Comic.
Sidious ponders the future and what he shall do, why he didn’t discover the plot against Plagueis, or if he didn’t want to.
He also gives orders for Gunray to assemble a fleet to blockade Naboo.


Plagueis is getting ready to infiltrate the castle home of Verunna. Which he does with little effort. He confronts Verunna reveals himself and then kills him through the force.


Sidious is debriefing Maul and asked about his wound, which Sidious turns into a lesson about keeping focused when fighting someone strong in the force, kill them then gloat. A lesson Maul doesn’t learn. Maul also revealed himself as a Sith before the kill.

Sidious also wonders if Plagueis did as much before dispatching Verunna.

Palpatine report to Plagueis that Black Sun is in disarray, Xizor likely to pick up some pieces.

They are now preparing the blockade, the plan is to use it to gather sympathy for Palpatine in the senate.

They also plan for Naboo to fall and the Jedi to become more militant. They plan a long war.

Palpatine also reveals a Neimoidian who knows of the blockade is in the wild. They send Maul.

Maul killed two Jedi, a dozen others and a Hutt. He’s a lose Canon Sidious, but he gets results chief Plagueis.

Anyway Maul is coming to meet them on a station. Which is where a party is being held, Plagueis goes to talk with Sifo about a clone army. They talk about war coming and how an army of clones could help, if needed. Sifo says he needs time, but Plagueis is sure they are set. Palpatine has the delivery from, not Maul but someone else, Plagueis says it is the dark side at work.

Palpatine is talking with Valorum who has an idea to get himself back on track, he has worked out that a lot of ships and material are being built and that his corruption charges are just part of a larger scheme.
Just the Padme calls the Chancellor and tells him the TF have blockaded Naboo. Valorum says he will see them back down.

Next the force strikes back.



The blockade of Naboo isn’t getting much coverage. Plagueis is calling in favours, Palpatine acting in public and his crew working behind the scenes.

Then they learn that Obi and Jinn have been sent to Naboo to resolve the blockade, Plagueis is concerned and doesn’t think droids can kill Jinn, Palpatine says they will invade Naboo and change the Jedi priority. They decide to prep Maul.

Plagueis is watching The Phantom Menace, he watches Sidious and Maul talk. He is concerned.

Plagueis and Sidious talk as Padme and Co head to Coruscant, Sidious reveals he will have one of his rivals expose the other as corrupt, killing the support of both. He will also have Padme call for the vote of no confidence in Valorum and then run back to Naboo.


Dooku is meeting Palpatine, they discuss forming an alliance and the need to appear on opposing sides. Dooku also reveals that Jinn brought a kid with him 9 years old and conceived by the force, Palpatine wonders if this boy is.... but he sensed nothing from him. Dooku also reveals that Jinn says he fought a Sith.
Plagueis goes to meet Anakin and finds he has just missed him, he fears they are undone.

He then meets with Palpatine as he is nominated for supreme chancellor by Orn, Plagueis vows not to rest until they win.

Plagueis then watched the Queen, Jedi and co leave and realises that Jinn must die he is the key to everything. Which is apparently true, the name duel of the fates refers to Jinn and Maul fighting for Anakins future a fight which Maul wins.

Plagueis and Palpatine send the day working, Palpatine telling Gunray what to do while Plagueis getting the mega corps angry at the Republic.

Palpatine was now odds on favourite to win the election, now to just attend the opera.

At the opera Palpatine and Plagueis are welcomed by the Mon Cal director, who lost a fortune betting against Anakin. Palpatine is relaxed during the night while Plagueis is drinking a lot and nervous.

They head back to his place and start drinking, Plagueis drinking a lot more than Palpatine.

Plagueis is now rather drunk and tired. So he has a sleep. Then Sidious moves he electrocutes him destroying Plagueis life support slowly killing him.

Then we get the book from Palpatines view. It starts off with an unhappy rant about even though he acted the better Plagueis wasn’t nearly as good as he thinks. He also calls him Darth Plagueis the Wise, before saying how foolish he was, his teacher yes, but never master. Palpatine could save Plagueis but he won’t. How tragic to save others but be unable to save ones self.

He now reveals that he only needed his knowledge, but all the planing that was Palpatine. He had hoped Plagueis would die on Sojourn, but it was good he didn’t Palpatine admits he could not have succeeded without him. Palpatine tells 11 he will get a new body.

Palpatine senses solitude. Dawn is breaking.

Palpatine won the election said the usual words. Naboo freed itself with out any out side intervention. No one really notices one more dead Muun.

Palpatine goes to Naboo having lost the battle in his view and learns Maul is dead explaining the solitude he felt. He also takes note of Anakin.

Palpatine has taken Dooku to the LiMerge building. They discuss his new office and how events on Naboo unfolded. Dooku is sad about Jinn and learns his other apprentice is leading the Bando Gora.

Dooku now reveals he wants to find the Sith and learn to use the dark side. Palpatine says he is sure he will find the Sith.

Palpatine meets with Obi and Anakin. They talk Palpatine sees a lot of himself in Anakin. He is sure he will join him and help the Sith rule.

 

Hi Ausstig,

I read your review with great interest. I was not aware that all those events in the book were flashbacks in Palpatine's mind, when he tried to re-construct how his master killd his master and afterwards - and I have read DP twice. So that means that it was the story of Plagueis the Wise from a certain point of view only?

No reference to the Yuuzhan Vong? Not directly, true that. But there are plenty of locations like Caluula and Obroa-skai very important in NJO. Not to forget the Togrutan captain of the Wobegone, Ellin Lah. I think the family name means something to you and I still think that JL did have his purpose to name her like this.

I think Plagueis is a good psychologist. If he wouldn't had become Lord of the Sith, he could have found just another successful profession.

I shudder by the thought that Palpatine's face at the end of Ep. III was his true one all the time.

And that's a reference to NJO where such happens. Anyway, I didn't remember that sentence in DP.

I really, really would like to read or watch about.

I really wonder if Palpatine deems Anakin more his son than his real son.

May I ask you why you mention such details like Sidious picking up a woman at Malastare? Is that for remembering later or did you like to show something with it?

 

I want a Plagueis Prequel Darth Tenebrous

 

What is most interesting to me is that the book implies it might be, at least to some extent a vision Palpatine is happening. At least until the very end. It's clear if/when the vision stops or even starts. Seems fitting for the Sith, deception and all.

True, but unlike say Maul Lockdown, there is no direct Vong.

I don't know. I think it was more deadening Sidious to horror, to condition him to accept these things and get used to them.

A truer reflection perhaps, but like how Batman is the real person and Bruce Wayne is the mask. Palpatine does mention in the RotS novel that "the mask becomes the man" after his face is damaged.

TUF does set up a new capital. But I think just moving it off of Coruscant is a good start, kinda got me thinking of the moving NR capital from legends, though this is a coincidence.

I think it might be in Legacy of the Jedi, but I am not sure.

I think he does, his racing background (which doesn't get enough attention I think given it is something he has in close common with Anakin), his anger and other issues make them similar. I mean in some ways Palpatine IS Anakins father, with Obi as an older Brother.

I wrote this (and my other read throughs) as I went along. I specifically wanted to put down stuff as I was reading, not letting thoughts sit or anything, just writing down what stuck out.

Pick-up artist Palpatine stood out, not only to show how charming he could be (as far as I could tell his own skill) and how he could tell the truth in certain ways. Also since Palptine having kids is a universal constant I found it funny.

 

In my head-canon Obi-Wan is Palpatine's son from Talzin anyway. While in another universe I gave him a daughter. A big Sith-Jedi family after all, forged by Plagueis.

 

Making my way through the audio book and man. I with there was a sequel that led up to the events of AOTC.
Be called Dooku, perhaps?
The creation of the Separtist crisis, more background stuff on Kamino, the Clone Army, and Jango Fett.
The trial for the Trade Federation. Jorus C'boath and Outbound Flight, Vergere and the Yuuzhan Vong, Thrawn, among other ancient Sith stuff.
Maybe some follow up to Set Harth and Darth Andeddu's holocron?

 

Anything to get James Luceno out of retirement.

 

Once again, can’t think of a better thread than this one for it, but concept artist Sang Jun Lee updated his website recently with some concept art for Muuns that may have been used for Luceno’s description of Plagueis. And yes, I am primarily referring to the nose.



The second one’s the same piece that was included in Paul Duncan’s Star Wars Archives. And there’s many more wonderful art pieces in the artist’s website that had not been published before.

 

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I've been recently listening to the Plagueis audiobook for the first. I'm blown away at the performances and overall immersive quality of the experience.

But my goodness I had forgotten just how amazing Luceno's writing style is. The way he writes Plagueis, honestly just the language the character uses when he thinks, gives us such an insanely great insight into who this guy was as a character - extremely interesting and compelling! If there was one thing in the EU books I want more of, it is Luceno's Plagueis.

It seems unlikely since his last Star Wars book was almost a decade ago, but I'm hoping we can get more from him. Baffled why Disney won't return to the Luceno Well.

 

Daniel Davis is one heck of a narrator

 

James Luceno was always meant to write the swan song for the EU. He thought it’d be The Unifying Force. But it was Darth Plagueis. The last great work of the Expanded Universe.

Also, any bump to this thread will always be welcome. And I’m now curious to pick up my copy again and start reading.