ST Things TLJ changed from TFA

In the respective forums for those movies, sure.

That said I don’t care on the face of it that TLJ made changes, I care that many of the changes were made for the sole purpose of LOLz in the form of “subversion”, with the “surprise” new direction intentionally directed at making fun of people who like the OT.

 

I don’t think TLJ acts respectfully towards Lucas’ saga at all.

Lucas had a young woman tell an abusive egomaniac man that he stunk, had the same young woman choke a gangster misogynist to death with the chains he used on her, and the one time he showed a good woman trying to fix a bad man through romance, that story ended with the natural and expected consequence of being dumb enough to try to fix a bad man through romance.

Johnson had a young woman try to fix an abusive egomaniac through romance and then pretended that it was not only a positive and that the abusive egomaniac deserved such an attempt (because he was only an abusive egomaniac because the heroes were big meanies who “made” him) but also that it would naturally be the “young woman’s perspective” that “romance is possible.”

It’s gross, and for all the dated and bad tropes in previous movies, I cannot see Lucas going there in the 21st century.

 

Johnson. He set up the hand holding scene, the scene in which Rey took Kylo at his word and attacked Luke, the “you’re not alone/you’re not either” barf fest. He set up Rey shipping herself to Kylo like a Barbie doll (with makeup included) and the cringeworthy “Ben! Don’t go this way!” He told John Williams to change the music in the hut scene because “the young woman’s perspective” is that “romance is possible.” He said “everyone can relate” to Kylo.

I do hold Abrams accountable for the grossness that was the end of TROS but the bulk of the issue is with Johnson’s narrative.

 

I think this thread might be interesting, provided we discuss what does or doesn’t count as a change, or different types of changes. For instance, while I would argue that the answers TLJ provided to TFA’s mystery boxes were “betrayals” and changes to the spirit of TFA’s story, those are different from much more major changes that could arguably be titled as outright retcons.

For instance, I would say that the biggest actual and clear retcons film-to-film are:

- Rey’s personality, humanity, and perspective retconned entirely, so that instead of having a believable hostile and traumatized reaction to Kylo, a more believable problem with denial, and a more pragmatic and rough personality, she’s instead a “simp” for Kylo almost immediately, she’s a ditz with a problem “of finding herself,” and a soft enabler with no spine or care for others. She’s also retconned to not care about Finn anywhere near as much anymore.

- Finn’s story retconned to argue he was self-centered and Rey obsessed instead of empathetic and self-aware enough to be motivated by what the First Order was doing.

- Poe’s personality changed from a Wedge-like officer and commander trusted by Leia and Ackbar to an unprofessional idiot who doens’t understand the chain-of-command.

- Hux’s personality and behavior as a military officer retconned away from mostly quiet, no-nonsense professional who only got hammy when giving a public speech to a looney tunes parody of Ozzie.

- The First Order retconned (very explicitly in the backstory, still clearly implicitly on screen) from a leaner, hidden collection of fanatics with limited manpower and a smaller fleet into a huge, publicly known and large-territory-holding power with a fleet and manpower capable of conquering the Galaxy within weeks.

“Bad-faith” changes that go against the spirit of TFA, but are more just really opposing follow-ups than outright retcons;

- Luke being in Ach To and how the meeting with Rey is handled; while there was a *lot* of leeway with the character, they *did* outright reshoot and restage the intial meeting, while the idea he was on a clearly findable planet because of its history belies the the “unfindable” explanation they try to use. Plus, it’s clear that Rey was definitely supposed to be trained by Luke in TFA, so that’s a hard rejection by TLJ of arguably the entire setup of Rey finding Luke.

- Kylo’s a curious example, because *he* doesn’t change that much, but the way the story *treats* him changes immensely. Like, him throwing a hissy fit that destroys his helmet isn’t at all out of character from TFA… but the film tries to play it dramatically instead fo for comedy, and so that Adam Driver’s looks can be exposed to make a shallow appeal to the audience. Similarly, Driver continues to play him as a sociopathic, petulant psycho… but the film makes Luke and Rey treat him like a wounded baby bird because it sees him that way, and promotes him as the male lead over Finn.

Changes that are more awkward displays of either deliberate changes by Johnson or reflections of his flawed outlook:

- The “Moral arithmetic” the film expects the audience to follow, whereby the selfless virtues of our heroes in the last film are treated as selfish flaws by TLJ. I feel there’s just as much a chance this is Johnson’s POV struggling with a lack fo anti-heroes as there is that he was deliberately trying to challenge the nature fo Star Wars.

 

It’s actually a bit funkier than that, and this is arguably an area where LFL changed something *in TFA* even though it would have benefitted their plans for TLJ, even if you’re overall point would still have been ignored.

Abrams originally wanted it to be Coruscant that was destroyed by SKB, and LFL refused that idea. Now, that’s totally justified if you think he was just being a bitter prequel hater, or if they knew from the beginning they wanted Coruscant in something like episode IX… but if you’ve approved a script where you’re central idea is that the Galaxy is immediately cowed and subdued without a fight, then you kind of need the statement that a destroyed Coruscant would deliver.

It still wouldn’t really be enough to argue the Galaxy would roll over and that no New Republic force would remain to oppose them, but if you want the hard reset, that’s the planet that you arguably need destroyed to sell that.

I feel this is more an area of ill-advised agreement between TFA, TLJ, and LFL (that the story should be reset to the OT)… but one where, somehow, and in a very troubling way, JJ Abrams seems to be the only one who even has a remotely aware view of what they’re doing and what it entails.

That’s a bad situation because of and made worse by TLJ wanting the same goal even harder than TFA, and LFL forcing a change that goes against that.

 

I get that… but at the same time, even in the DOTF script it’s about reinforcing the hard reset to the OT since it again insists the First Order would be effectively unchallenged in retaking the Galaxy, and without any real fight.

You want Coruscant as the setting for the climactic battle? Make sure the First Order has to earn it against stiff opposition (which honestly would have been my preference.) You want the OT set-up brought back without any real attempt to have the Galaxy defend itself? Well, then Coruscant should probably be blown up if it’s had decades to be comfortable with the Republic.

If it weren’t for TLJ being the film LFL approved and loved, I’d be with them on sparing Coruscant. Instead, it’s like they had a worse motive for sparing it than Abrams did for destroying it.

 

Apparently Johnson is really good with visuals, the exact angle to hold a camera, and some of his dialogue is pretty good.

But when watching Star Wars it seems that he wanted more Mortis with a side of Wuthering Heights or Twilight, and I wanted more of a man saving his father and more stormtroopers getting their asses handed to them by teddy bears. Or bringing Disney LFL into this—more of a woman finding her father too late but able to carry out his covert anti-totalitarian mission right under the nose of an entitled ***hole who thinks he is more important than he actually is. To me the long-lost family (actual family, not whatever the ST calls “family”) finding each other is Star Wars, with the stormtrooper versus Ewok battle and the egomaniac getting thrown around by Vader with Anakin’s humor just making it more fun.