Mini Series Official "Obi-Wan Kenobi" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

It’s going to be so funny to see the reactions from the public when they realize that Reva actually stabbed Flea, who is a Clawdite changeling that the Grand Inquisitor sent to impersonate him, knowing Reva would strike first.


However, the internet is going to explode when the next GI transforms once more and Padme walks in right behind him asks rhetorically to Kenobi, “Thought I died of a broken heart? You were always so naive, Kenobi!

Anakin and I have been living our best lives together this whole time while you and the others raise our kids for us! Anakin’s never been better! He’s more machine than man now and I have you to thank for that!”

A flashback with familiar ROTS moments then plays out but with additional views we’ve never seen before.

The bot was in on it. Re-programmed from midwifery to provide broken heart death declarations.


From there we revisit this shot but it lingers on Padme longer until eventually her face morphs from the Padme we know and love to a face like this:


Turns out Padme, after recognizing the value of body doubles, took the concept to the next level and began forming her own army of Clawdite changelings to plot her own takeover of the galaxy and be with Anakin. Palpatine? Changeling. Mace killed the real one and then Anakin killed Mace and the others. The Vader Luke redeems in ROTJ? Changeling. The real Anakin and Padme were on vacation.

 

For me, the theme is about growing up and finding your own path. Luke is surrounded by people telling him what his destiny is. Owen, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Vader, Palpatine.

Obi-Wan tells Luke that Anakin is dead. Yoda tells Luke that the Dark Side will forever dominates one destiny. Obi-Wan tells Luke that if he cannot kill his own father, then Palpatine has already won.

The idea that Obi-Wan wants Luke to try to redeem Vader would hinge on the notion that Obi-Wan knows that Luke isn’t going to listen to him, so he tells Luke the opposite.

Thematically, it works better if Obi-Wan wants Luke to kill Vader.

Owen wants to keep Luke on the farm.

Obi-Wan and Yoda want Luke to believe Vader can’t be saved and prepare him to kill Vader.

Vader wants Luke to join him to overthrow Palpatine

Palpatine wants Luke to turn and replace his father.

Luke finds his own way.

I don’t like or buy the idea that Obi-Wan and Yoda wanted Luke to redeem Vader, when dialogue existed in which they both implied that they believed such a feat was impossible.

I believe George himself, when talking about destiny, has told the story about how his father ran a car dealership (or some other business) and thought George should follow in his footsteps, but that George had to find his own way.

That’s the theme to me. Everyone is telling Luke what he should do, but he does his own thing.


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I won’t judge the series until it is done but so far it’s a bit of a disappointment. Ewans acting is a 10/10 though and he deserves a better screenplay than what we received so far. I still say Lucasfilm provides unbelievable production value but continues to have a screen play problem.

 

Iam surprised that Yoda is not going to be part of this series, because Yoda was supposed to have training for Obi Wan Kenobi in his solitude on Tatooine.

Specifically, Yoda said in ROTS that he would be teaching Obi Wan how to commune with Quigon, which of course explains how Obi Wan will be one of the disappearing Jedi in ANH.


This further implied that Obi Wan was to be in regular communication with Yoda from the start, presumably via the secret communication device that he used to talk to Bail Organa about rescuing Leia.

We know that Obi Wan will be making contact with Qui Gon Jen in this series, but it would make more since if Yoda was involved with this contact as well.

 

There's nothing explicit in the screenplays that say either way, but it's hard to square away the fact that both Yoda and Obi-wan speaking highly of Anakin when telling Luke about him. If they wanted Luke to kill his father, with no choice in the matter, because he's become a monster, why even put the 'good man' into this head. Why complicate the mission by reminding Luke, or introducing the idea, that his father was a good man.

Destiny is not only shoved in Luke's face, it was also put on Anakin's as well. Both Yoda and Obi-wan seem to think that Anakin is no more, and that once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. There's no coming back from it. But...Destiny is always a choice. You have to choose it. That's why Palpatine needs Anakin to choose his path. He can't make Anakin a dark sider on his own. He needs Anakin to choose. Just as Luke chose his own path.

I believe that Yoda and Obi-wan wanted Luke to save Anakin. He was their New Hope. That if there was one person alive that could do it, it would be his son. But, and this is an important but, they needed Luke to also be comfortable with letting go of his father, and being able to kill him, should it not work. They needed Luke to be detached from the outcome he/they wanted. When Luke says "I can't kill my father", and Obi responded "then the Emperor has already won", what he means is that Luke is too attached to saving his father from his own destiny, just like Anakin was too attached to saving Padme, and if that's the case, then the Emperor will use that to his own advantage, and Luke will lose. He will use Luke's attachments against him because Luke's attachments will become...obsessions. And the same thing that happened to Anakin will happen to Luke. Yoda and Obi-wan can't just outright tell Luke, hey kid, save your father, but also be ready to kill him. They need him to figure out on his own.

In the end, Luke managed to resist the dark side temptation, which is what his mentor's taught him, and not play the Emperor's game. He let go of the idea of saving his father, and everything else, just to remain on the light side, even if it meant his own death. He detached. And just has he was about to be killed, Anakin realized he still had a choice to make. That his destiny is not sealed forever. And that's when he let go of his own obsessions, his own attachments to his own life, and the choices he made 20 years ago, and chucked his master into the abyss, and saved Luke, and his own humanity.

 

Damn. All my Zam Wessel gifs there in my Padme theory post changed and went away.

 

And the score for that scene should be Yakkety Sax.

 

Lucas’s last films all had zany action scenes that might have some adults rolling their eyes but made kids happy. For me the Leia stuff was similar.

Sometimes people claim the spirit of Star Wars is being lost but I’ve found that some of the biggest criticisms in new works can often be seen in previous works and so a counter argument can be made that stuff like this is in the spirit of Star Wars.

 

I am pretty sure that if a human gets stabbed in the stomach, they don't die because their stomach got injured, but because of blood loss
I don't see how having two stomachs would prevent someone from dying if they were stabbed with a lightsaber in one of those.

 

Something that doesn't seem like it adds up, yet: assuming Reva was one of the youngling Jedi recruited by the inquisitors, why is it that the GI thinks she has the stench of the gutter on her? Maybe she escaped 66 and spent a few years living on the streets before she was found and recruited?

 

Early test footage of Leia running:

 

Luke: “There is still good in him.”

Obi-Wan: “He’s more machine now than man, twisted and evil.”

Luke: “I can’t do it Ben.”

Obi-Wan: “You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Vader again.”

Luke: “I can’t kill my own father.”

Obi-Wan: “Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.”

When Luke asserts that there is good in him, Obi-Wan immediately rains on his parade. And though Obi-Wan doesn’t tell Luke explicitly to kill Vader, Luke knows exactly what is being implied because he objects that he cannot kill Vader. Obi-Wan responds that then the Emperor has won already. Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda entertain the idea that Vader can be redeemed.

I agree with everything you said about choice and that Vader had to choose. But when Yoda talks about the Dark Side forever dominating one’s destiny, it is suggested that he sees it as impossible for one to turn away. In their minds choice becomes removed from the equation once you choose the Dark Side. Luke proved them wrong.

Luke was nearly tempted to kill his own father in anger, but then throws down his weapon so that he could not be tempted further, and then he plants his flag in the faith that there is still good in his father, and it paid off, and Anakin reinforces that to Luke “you were right about me.”

Obi-Wan tells Luke that if he cannot kill Vader, then Palpatine has already won. Luke refused to kill Vader and left himself defenseless, and that is what ultimately caused Palpatine to lose.

Vader tells Luke that Obi-Wan once had similar hope of redeeming him, which is something we never saw. Websites like IGN were quick to point out that this show creates an opportunity to explain what Vader was referring to. It would be a missed opportunity if they didn’t explore that, but I feel like something has to happen to have Obi-Wan go from wanting to save him to writing him off as an evil machine.

ROTS already resolved that in my book when he chokes Padme and screams that he hates Obi-Wan in his “final” moments (as far as Obi-Wan knows), but now they’re busting the story wide open again.

If ROTS wasn’t enough to get Obi-Wan to write off Anakin as lost, I’m curious as to what they could do this time to really drive that home.


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Bolded, yes, for exactly everything I said in my post. The reason why the Emperor has already won, if Luke won't even entertain the idea of killing his father, is because Luke is too attached to his father, the good man. And although they may have hope that Luke could turn him back, there's the very real possibilty that he won't, and Luke needs to prepare for that reality as well. That if Anakin won't turn back, Luke needs to be able to accept the idea, that he may need to kill him. Because he's more machine now than man, and even his own son won't do it.

For this to work, Luke needs to have hope, but also face the possibility that it won't. That's it. If Luke can't outright kill his father, then he's already lost.

 

But Luke doesn’t. I’m not sure if we’re arguing over semantics or what.

Filoni asserted that the two Jedi masters wanted Luke to redeem Vader, but that they needed Luke to arrive at that conclusion on his own. All the while we have Obi-Wan telling Luke that he must be prepared to kill Vader in ROTJ.

At no point is Luke prepared to kill Vader EXCEPT when he’s tempted by the Dark Side.

Obi-Wan was wrong. That’s my point. For this to work Luke does not in fact need to kill Vader or even be willing to kill Vader, and in fact he refuses to and that’s what destroyed the Empire.

I disagree with the notion that Yoda and Obi-Wan were in any way aiding in that outcome.


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A light saber should cauterize the wound no? The only time a light saber should kill you is if you hit a vital organ such as the heart or you just die of shock from like say losing your arm. Your stomach is pretty vital though but even in the book of Boba Fett we saw that you can just get your stomach replaced in Star Wars

 

I know, right? These movies were always cheesy - heck, Lucas was partially influenced by Flash Gordon IIRC.

Heck, compared to some of the stuff in the first two trilogies Reva running across the rooftops might as well have been a scene from John Wick.

Lightsabers (almost always) cauterize wounds; the only times I can think of that they cause bleeding is TPM and ANH.

Certainly people in SW have survived *way* worse wounds then just getting stabbed in the stomach.

Well, the Grand Inquistor was once a Jedi as well, as are most, if not all, of the other Inquistors; so maybe it was the Order she came to from the gutter?

Presumably Yoda taught him what he needed to know *before* they parted ways; Yoda seems to have competely been living an un-technological existence in his exile and I would imagine that if he was in contact with his allies Obi-Wan and Bail would have addressed it (Obi-Wan specifically was so desperate not to get involved you'd think if Yoda was a factor he would have listed him amid the other people Bail could recruit to rescue Leia).

Man, can you imagine though? Reva concocts this whole plot expecting Obi-Wan to come, but f-ing YODA shows up instead

 

if this isn't now an actual line, I will be disappointed.

 

We have had first stomach but what about Second stomach

 

I would still be curious if we’re actually going to see him again though. I’m assuming the trailer included footage from the first three episodes. We’ve seen one and two, and the scenes from unaired episodes show 5th Brother, Reva and 4th Sister seemingly working together at that Imperial base.

It’s possible that he might get put in a bacta tank for the rest of the season, or they might just give some comment about how he’s recovering with him popping up briefly towards the end.

I just hope they don’t try to juggle too many characters in a 6 episode show that and dilute things too much. We have Obi-Wan, Leia, Reva, Vader, and possibly Luke and Owen, plus we still have to meet whomever Haja sent Obi-Wan to, which could be Hondo for all I know.

Deborah Chow compared the show to Logan and said there’s a “love story” dynamic between Vader and Obi-Wan, so Hayden still needs to get his screen time.

Try to follow too many characters and it becomes less Logan and more X-Men.


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Qui Gon disagrees.

Also, that's not how cauterizing works. You can't just say that any lightsaber wound was cauterized to justify bringing back someone from the dead. Otherwise noone would die from a lightsaber wound unless you cut their heads off.

Showing someone dying only to then say "well they're not dead is a cheap and overused plot twist at this point.

 

If a lightsaber cauterized the wound, you'd still have two holes in your stomach. Qui-Gon Jinn got stabbed in the stomach in TPM and died from it, so there is precedent.

I'm just not a fan of characters constantly coming back to life. It cheapens consequences and it comes to a point where it feels too disconnected from reality. I know this is a fantasy world, but I still want to be able to relate to it on a human level.

 

Survival is at least more plausible since he's an alien and we don't know his exact Physiology.

 

The scene would have worked better for me if we saw him survive in the same episode. Like @DarthFixxxer said, it's an overused convention and, to anyone who has seen Rebels, his "surprise" survival is already a given.

 

I would normally be ok with this explanation. What bothers me more than the stab with the lightsaber, is this:

Spoiler: Totally Dead