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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Mini Series Obi-Wan Kenobi - Part 4 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Jun 7, 2022.

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Grade the Episode

Poll closed Jun 15, 2022.
  1. 10

    8.1%
  2. 9

    15.2%
  3. 8

    22.8%
  4. 7

    23.4%
  5. 6

    11.2%
  6. 5

    7.1%
  7. 4

    5.6%
  8. 3

    2.0%
  9. 2

    2.0%
  10. 1

    2.5%
  1. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    It may be the writing/direction which is turning people off to the character. It took me a minute to realize she is acting quite well... it's the character she's been given that I want to see stepped on by an AT-AT.
     
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  2. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    the only similarities are that they are both former Jedi who turned into Inquisitors, but that’s the basic story for many of the Inquisitors, not just Trilla and Reva

    we know the specifics of Trilla’s backstory, we know who her master was, we don’t know any of the specifics about Reva’s backstory yet, we don’t who her master was, if she even had one, or when she turned to the dark side, or the specific circumstances that lead her to turn to the dark side
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  3. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    See I don't even care if she stepped on because I just find her poorly written and boring, but not just her all the inquisitors. I also don't like fifth brother's weird Low growling fake talking, and then they give the other female Inquisitor nothing to do.

    Boba Fett didn't truly have a central villain either and even moff Gideon who I think is written well enough and acted great, is kind of a lame duck so far to me because they are just not giving him enough to do besides the generic bad guy lines.

    I really hope andor gives us some compelling villains.
     
  4. Darth Weavile

    Darth Weavile Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2017
    I mean it’s pretty obvious Reva was one of the Jedi at the Temple in the opening scene of the show. Which also gets back to the problem…

    Is this supposed to be a show about Obi-Wan or Reva? If you’re doing a six episode miniseries, it’s generally not a great idea to take away so much focus from the main character. We already saw that in BOBF.
     
  5. DrDre

    DrDre Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2015
    MODified and goodbye
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2022
  6. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    That is all true but I think it is hinted at strongly from the flashback of episode 1 and the tunnel scene of where they're going with it with reva. It will most likely be the same concept, a former Jedi, who is mad at their Master, whoever that may be for leaving her to the darkside, which caused abandonment issues much like trilla.
     
  7. The Chalk Jedi

    The Chalk Jedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Yeah, I agree with Campea and Burnett when they critique the character focus in the show. If you have a story with Kenobi and Vader in it, the emphasis should be on those characters. For instance, after Vader seems to let Kenobi escape, we should have a scene to better understand what Vader's thinking was. Instead, the emphasis is on finding Leia, on Leia and Reva, and on introducing a number of other characters that aren't developed sufficiently. The focus should be on the relationship between Vader and Kenobi, but instead we must ignore this to rescue Leia a second time.

    Another way to tighten the focus and deepen the characterization would be to cut Vader from the show and focus more on the Inquisitors, who so far do very little in the show. We haven't even seen them engage in combat, except for Reva and the GI, and the other two mostly stand around or the Fifth Brother repeats the same lines warning Reva without really doing much, and it becomes repetitive and boring. If the focus had been on them, then we could have had more action and also more character development.

    So like most of modern storytelling, Kenobi suffers from too many characters and a lack of focus and development. This is mostly a writing problem then. And I believe they worked on this script for years.
     
  8. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    the flashback in episode one, while really cool doesn’t really tell us any specifics about Reva, again it doesn’t tell us if she had a master, and it certainly doesn’t show us when/how she turned to the dark side

    my only point here is that of course there’s similarities with all the inquisitors, most were former Jedi, but of course there’s also bound to be differences specific to each one, the specifics regarding Reva, which we don’t know, will almost surely be relevant to why she is obsessed with finding and catching Kenobi
     
  9. fastcooljosh

    fastcooljosh Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2017
    Kind of baffling how most people on here give this Episode a 7-8/10.
     
  10. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    If they don't do the whole abandonment Master angle with reva I will be shocked, in a good way. I just feel like I can see it coming from a mile away, but you are correct they have not revealed that just yet but I just believe it's only a matter of time.
     
  11. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    That flashback will probably pay off in episode 6.
     
  12. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Both are audience scores. I agree. The differences are quite extreme at times and both are large samples. It’s pretty odd. The other odd thing was just how high TROS’s audience score ended up being at RT. It is the only Star Wars work with a RT audience score higher than the critic score. 86% audience score is extremely high. That’s like Rogue One high. And yet in the places I go to the film doesn’t seem to unite people anywhere near to the same degree as RO does. I actually enjoyed TROS. Warts and all. I felt like it respected the main aspects of TLj I wanted respected while retconning some of what I felt could be changed but online in the fandom it seems almost hated as much as TLJ and nowhere near that 86% score but maybe the mainstream audience and average person who saw it just enjoyed it more. Many people I know were glad Rey finally felt better connected to the larger story in some way.

    Anyway, it’s all rather puzzling. Makes it hard to assess what’s what.

    Kenobi seems WAY better to me than that RT audience score would suggest and closer to its IMDB score. Here on this site that seems to be the case but in some other Star Wars sites it’s getting the Saltier than Crait treatment.

    I feel so out of touch with the negativity of Star Wars overall these days. I can’t fully grasp the extent of it or where it is coming from. It’s all alien to me.

    It’s not that I can’t see the same flaws post TESB that are most often mentioned about every work since but at this point it just feels like part of the Star Wars experience to me. ROTJ had flaws. The prequels had flaws. The sequels had flaws. The shows have flaws. It’s more rare the works that are near perfect at this point. It just doesn’t seem reasonable to expect ANH & TESB level magic occurring over and over and over again forever. For one thing a significant ingredient in that magic was the father and son story of Vader and Luke. If you take that aspect out of how those two films work together or how ROTJ delivers a rewarding redemption I suspect the praise and feelings people have for the works would drop a considerable amount.

    Sometimes it feels like society has forgotten that this was always a campy Flash Gordon-Esque space opera with many inept storm troopers barely slowing down our heroes at all.

    So much of the prestige of Star Wars is tied directly to the parent and child story arch and twist that will never be able to replicated again. That’s the ingredient that elevated it above its Flash Gordon roots.

    Chasing that high is only going to lead to sadness. Some films like RO and TFA found ways to tap into some of that same parent and child magic that the public love so much with the OT but there’s declining returns on that and you can’t keep alluding to or building up parent and child stories indefinitely and Star Wars needs to be able to survive without that. It does and has for me but obviously not everyone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  13. Bee Bee

    Bee Bee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I don't find Reva noticeably worse than most villains in the series, though she could be a lot better. She doesn't seem clever or intimidating enough for her role. She really shouldn't even be alive at this point with the mistakes that she's made. It really seemed like Vader should have killed her at the end of the episode. That came across as plot armor to keep her alive since obviously the show has more for her. (Not saying I wanted her to be killed off but that the reason for her surviving was fairly weak)
     
  14. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    In my head canon Reva came to respect the Empire and the dark side because it defeated the group who took everything from her (the Jedi) and promised her the world (in her own mind) but were frauds (in her own mind) and were too weak to defend her or her friends versus the might of the Empire and the dark side.

    One of Moses strengths is she feels like someone you could imagine in a earth bound prison movie who is overlooked as a threat but finds a way to climb her way up until she back stabs the strongest woman in the gang there and takes over. She’s like someone who was bullied young and is a bit awkward but is full of anger below the surface. That’s how I know she’s doing a good job here. She would sell that there. It’s just that instead of other female prisoners she’s got Inquisitors and all od them are equalized by force power so muscle means little.


    If she is the girl from the opening she learned from a young age it’s every person for themself and that only the strong survive. She’s a survivor who knows that the only person she ultimately needs to impress is Vader and she’s trying her hardest to do so.

    People are assessing her like the Inquisitors are cops or Sith because the GI tried to present the group as a mix but she’s the only one in their group smart enough to recognize them for what they really are. A gang of thugs. And she’s trying to impress the man she sees at the top by any means necessary.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  15. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I expect we will see Hayden appear in another order 66 flashback in episode 6.

    Although it will be from the POV of young Reva.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
  16. Bee Bee

    Bee Bee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I'll wait to judge her more fully when we get more information. It's still unclear to me why she has so much interest in Obi-Wan in particular. Regarding the RT score, I really think RT is overvalued and doesn't accurately represent views well. When you simplify your rating system to just two categories it's going to be problematic. I'd personally give this series a rotten score but I'm not in the same camp as people who review bomb with 0/10 due to hate for one character/actor or whatever. A completely average movie and one of the best of all time could both be fresh while a slightly underwhelming movie and an unwatchable mess could both be rotten. It also doesn't help that people are often lumped into either haters or fanboys, as if there's no inbetween. The lack of nuance can really hurt simple discussion when people feel the need to attack or defend rather than just... talking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  17. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Oh for ***** sake can we please stop it with this nonsense? She’s getting no more or less focus than any well-developed villain would get. Seriously I’ve never heard this kind of asinine argument when it comes to male villains.

    “Well you know I thought Darth Vader was a bit too developed as a villain. His whole redemption thing took away the focus from Luke.”

    “I feel like Roy Batty should have been less compelling as a character. That’s poor writing to make him so interesting. This is supposed to be a Rick Deckard film!”

    It’s ridiculous.
     
  18. Darth Weavile

    Darth Weavile Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Vader and Luke are directly linked as characters.

    Reva and Obi-Wan have no such connection.
     
  19. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    The issue is that we have been hearing variations of this argument for years, unfortunately.
    It started with people being bothered by Rey while all they wanted was Luke, who just appears at the end in TFA and is not macho enough in TLJ. Then there was Holdo, who was playing a role that was supposed to be given to Ackbar. Then Fennec Shand was doing the cool actions and the talking while Boba Fett wasn't doing enough... Now apparently Reva is stealing OW's focus...

    ^ This sort of consistent repetition is where the frustration comes from.
     
  20. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    At this point all I'm hoping for from Reva is that they at least let her have a proper lightsaber fight. If all she does is another cycle of stalking about, then giving some poor prisoner the evil eye, that's just not enough to make her memorable.
     
  21. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    ^ She should defeat Darth Vader in combat. For no practical reason, just for the sake of breaking the internet
     
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  22. dogprivilege

    dogprivilege Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    It's really not a zero sum game. Believe it or not, a 5hour+ miniseries can easily meaningfully develop more than 2 characters, so claiming that Reva, whose character has also suffered from being underdeveloped, (and probably suffers the most from it because she doesn't have multiple saga films to build off of) is somehow taking away from Vader/Obi Wan is kinda just... an ill-informed and inaccurate point.

    I think they started off strongly with the inquisitors in episodes 1/2. But since then they haven't further developed their motivations and dynamic with one another. I think people are just stung now because Episode 4 was really the place to do more work on developing ALL main player's motivations and reactions to the events of the preceding episodes and get them in place for the last two episodes, but instead we spent the whole ep. 4 on a mid escape sequence for Leia that didn't add anything to the story.

    I was shocked we didn't even get a juicy Reva-Obi Wan confrontation/duel at the end of that episode. Seemed like what is was building towards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
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  23. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    She is probably underdeveloped because they plan on some reveal in episode 6.
     
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  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Oh so the villain has to be related to the hero then? Then how do you explain…

    Hannibal Lecter
    Palpatine
    Voldemort
    Hans Gruber
    Roy Batty
    The Joker
    Agent Smith
    Biff Tannen
    Gordon Gekko
    Alonzo Harris
    Thanos
    Hans Landa
    Max Cady
    Scar
    Bane
    Magneto
    Commodus
    Doc Ock
    Khan
    Warden Norton
    Johnny Lawrence
    Erik Killmonger

    And many many more?
     
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  25. JoshieHewls

    JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 16, 2013
    Simba's uncle? ;)
     
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