Andor Official "Andor" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I agree he’s a true believer, he’s idealistic and ambitious. What I mean by “heart’s not in it,” I mean I don’t think he has what it takes to be a successful Imperial leader.

An effective Imperial officer needs to manage the bloated, often unmotivated machine underneath them, the hoards of technicians, grunts, stormtroopers, etc. I think we usually see two models for that in SW: the “fox” who exploits the ambition of those below them to make the machine compete with itself towards a productive end, or the brutal “enforcers” who force the machine to work under penalty of death. Syril’s boss that left for a meeting in the first episode might be seen as fitting in the “fox” role, he knows this junior officer is very ambitious and wants to prove themself, and so leaves them with just enough authority to try something bold to prove themselves, without putting his own reputation on the line.

I suspect that Syril will come to the conclusion that his honor has no place in the Empire and he’ll switch sides in some way. But I could be wrong, we shall see! He is an interesting character and there could be many directions they take this.

edit: also, iirc, there weren’t any “innocent” deaths from his raid on Ferrix, only Timm who was kind of signaled to be a bad guy when he turned informant on Cassian. This could be the writers “going soft” on him so the audience can still have enough sympathy for a face-turn down the line

 

Yeah, well.... hope dies last
At least he is producing a new Alien movie, and I somehow feel he will have huge control over the story.
If Tony Gilroy were to make a new Alien movie, he would never accept having Ridley Scott telling him what to do.

Fair, but why does the age matter? Fennec Shand is still a co-lead in TBOBF.
And quite frankly, she looks like she's in her early 30s
In any case, The Acolyte will more than make up for that as it seems.

 

There is some richness and depth in the personalities of the characters that is pretty remarkable given the genre. Every character has rather distinctive features that identify them from the bunch.

-- Cassian, at the moment, is basically just trying to go ahead in a harsh world. We all know that he is about to become more idealistic, but at the moment he is overwhelmed by the events, and what he does is mostly focused on his struggle to survive. We see that he has a way with people, and he often manages to talk himself out of troubles almost in a "Han Solo" kind of way.

-- Syril is a bureaucrat, with the ambition of becoming a man of action. He is perhaps the most interesting character, since he stands against the archetype of the typical villain, but remarkably he is also the exact opposite of the trope of the detective (see later), and he's a rather lousy leader. He doesn't have the cartoonish evil characteristics that are commonly associated to the villains of action movies, he is just a normal person with a very peculiar sense of justice, who cares about his job, even though he is clearly still unexperienced. His personality needs to be compared with the one of Chief Hyne. Hyne might at first appear like the typical detective boss, who simply doesn't want troubles, and is bothered by the commitment and the passion of his subordinate -usually the protagonist- but there is a nice subversion here, because in this case Chief Hyne is actually 100 % right! The case is indeed no big deal and nothing to worry too much about, and Syril's persistence ends up making everything significantly worse for everyone.

-- Timm is clearly, and quite relatably, constrained in his decisions by his irresistible love for Bix. Some people criticized their scenes together as bland, but those scenes were actually necessary for the viewer to understand why each character would act the way they act. Whoever has had a crush for someone can understand how Timm would feel. You feel like she's the settler and you're the reacher, you feel like she'll never be as into you as you are into her, you feel like you could lose her at any moment, and the idea is something that literally doesn't make you sleep (as we see). Therefore, he made the mistake we know he made, which would lead him to his tragic fate, but I have to say that I find him rather relatable and understandable as a character.

-- Some things can already be said about Maarva, who appears to be sympathetic and idealistic, but I believe that the next couple of episodes will help us understand her better, and the same is true about Rael. He will turn out to be his mentor, probably the one who teaches him that for the rebellion to be effective, you need to be willing to make sacrifices, but also to embrace a certain moral grey area whenever it's needed.

The writing of the show is pretty good, and I am glad to see that the way the characters were written was rather creative.

 

Sure, but you conveniently left the animated ones out
Omega and Sabine Wren should be in the list.
For the record, I don't agree with Swashbuckling's comment.
It would be a true comment for the Disney Star Wars movies, but not for the shows.

 

I don't understand the idea that Bix is not important to the narrative (yet). She is Cassian's link to the Rebellion, that is very important in driving the story. She also gives a lot of context to what Cassian is doing at this time, and what kind of a person he is. Also, I think there is pretty clear signaling that she is going to be important going forward. We see that Cassian has strong feelings for her. Look at the scene where Maarva is trying to figure out who could have told the Corpos that Cassian was from Kenari - he reacts in a very defensive manner when Bix's name is brought up by B (in a different context, but he doesn't know that yet). He doesn't have that reaction to any of the other names we hear.

I think Karn shows potential to do exactly that. We see him getting the investigative machine churning - quite effectively. He isn't so well suited to move the troops on the line, but I think he could grow into that role. He's completely green.

 

@Riv_Shiel which one is Karn? I can’t keep them all straight lol

 

This new film is reportedly unconnected to the mythos with David and the Engineers, so I’m not sure I believe that Ridley’s micromanaging it. From what I gather he wasn’t exactly standing over Villeneuve telling him what to do in Blade Runner 2049.

And I don’t think Tony Gilroy is combative as all that. He certainly seems to get on with Kathy Kennedy in a way that a lot of Star Wars creatives struggle with.

 

Ah man, this is it my friends! I know we're only 3 episodes in, but this may personally be my most "Star Wars" Star Wars show, of all the shows we've received thus far. I know it's too early, but I feel like this is the best show we've received yet, by a significant margin.

Excited to see where we'll go!

 

I've had a hard time with the big cast, as well. Syril Karn is the Deputy Inspector that was adamant about investigating the murders against his boss's wishes.

 

No it's not that at all, show could be only about female characters for all I care, I feel quota characters are characters that are shown without clear connection to plot just to represent some group by being in there while doing nothing. It feels like we don't need them for the plot at all, they just are there.

So far Bix feels a bit like quota character to me, but maybe she becomes really important later on. She probably does and my criticism becomes totally unjustified.
My first emotional reaction was probably misleading and I'm sorry for it. I just didn't like her that's all and so far she has not been important to overall plot (Timm was more important, but honestly anyone could've ratted Cassian out).

Sorry. I'm emotionally unstable due to stress in my personal life. For some reason she just irritated me a lot. I'm sorry ok?

I choose my words poorly. I am not irritated by all young female characters if they are well-written. I liked young Leia in OWK, didn't have strong opinion about Reva either, although she was written rather poorly at times. Damn I didn't even hate scooter kids from BOBF- that show had worse issues. I am also waiting Bad Batch to continue with young female main character. Animated or live action I don't see any difference in that regard. I just think Andor should focus on Andor family (as BOBF should've focused on Boba Fett) so I don't know why we had so much Bix Caleen in first 3 episodes.

But I feel like there are a lot of these I call "quota characters" in modern fiction. I hate that phenomenon. They are people of minorities or characters of opposite gender or different color in show focusing on male character or white people. They are written poorly since writers don't know what to do with them, they are there just to represent their group, not part of the plot or even genuine characters in that regard. I think it's more racist and sexist to have these empty characters instead of actually writing good characters out of them. I have nothing against well-written genuine female characters, black characters, asian characters or damn alien characters in Star Wars.

What comes to Bixie-girl she has still potential to become important and interesting character when time progresses. We need to learn who she actually is. By far she felt a little like quota character to me at first, but that was a hasty conclusion and overly emotional reaction to her scenes being the worst IMO in these 3 episodes. I am sorry for saying all that. I don't intend to be hater or sound sexist. It probably came out that way however and I'm sorry.

Damn it, I still like the show by far but Bix needs more characterization. So does name-character Cassa-boy, after miss Bix Caleen and Timmy-boy he is the third dullest of all characters introduced so far.

I also think the actor Adria Arjona did the best she could with Bix and I don't hate her at all, but I felt weird to follow her around so much when we were not told much of her character. I passionately hate only poor writing and so far this show has been so well-written that otherwise mediocre scenes start to stand out.

But as I said I have been stressed out and that makes me grumpy and I lashed out too passionately about this. You also took it very personally for some reason. If I would have said same about Jar Jar Binks no one would've defended his character like that. But if I criticize young female character played by a pretty actor everyone loses their minds.

I am not attacking the actor, she didn't have much to work with here and she was good all things considered, she had some strong emotions she expressed well. But I felt that writers didn't establish her well enough as character. But there is time still. I think she is also from Kenari which explains why she is important to Cassian and connects her to main story of the show in more organic manner.

But then the controversial opinion of mine, "quota-characters phenomenon" I think it's real based on my observation of modern media. You are free to disagree. I think it is not necessarily official quota written anywhere (although it can be) but more like result of modern thinking. If they write a story based on guidelines that include representation of different genders and ethnic groups as prerequisite it easily follows that some characters are there just to represent their group. It doesn't make much sense in some stories however and the main focus is easily lost and representative characters have no connection to the main plot. Writers still feel it easier to write male leads for example.

I fear that one role for Bix is a mere love interest of Cassian. Love interests (often females) in poorly written stories tend to be quota characters without independent characterization. In well-written stories they are characters in their own right.

But if Bix is from Kenari and/or she serves important part in the story later on, she is probably not quota character and I misidentified her as one and I am sorry. I was overly critical, overly emotional and went too far.

 

Really not getting what makes Bix a "quota character" as opposed to 90% of the other characters in the show so far.

Without Bix, Cassian kills those two guys, runs home, and then what? There'd be no connection to Luthen, no Timm to rat him out... I guess Maarva and Brasso help him hide until he's either caught or the corpos give up?

 

Yes she was important as Cassian's contact person for sure. And she probably serves important role later on. I am sorry for saying some pretty stupid stuff. Quota character thing was not really on point here.

I don't actually make difference between shows and movies or animated and live action shows really. I like Omega, Sabine and Ahsoka (didn't like her at first either btw) as characters. They all feel genuine characters to me. Bix so far is just some woman on Ferrix. I don't know who she is or what she wants. Maybe I learn to like her later on. I'm sorry about my emotional outburst.

 

We follow Bix so much, because she is moving the plot forward. We see her call Luthen, because that is what brings Luthen to Ferrix (pretty important to the plot). We see her go see Timm, because establishing the relationships between Bix, Timm, and Cassian is what gets the Corpos to Ferrix; and informs them that Cassian is the guy they are looking for. We see her talk to Luthen, because it sets up Luthen's meeting with Cassian and sets up Bix knowing where Cassian is and what he is up to. We see her interaction with the Corpos because that is our demonstration of what life is like under brutal oppression, and likely Timm's death will drive the plot to some extent in future episodes (speculation at this point, but hard to imagine it isn't leading to something). Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are her only scenes without Cassian? The show is lesser for losing any of those scenes.

As far as her characterization being thin, I disagree. We learn a lot about what she is like over the course of these episodes. We know that she is loyal - she is devastated that Timm would betray Cassian, and Cassian is adamant in his defense of her that she would not turn him in. We know that she is a good organizer. She has set up a fairly significant operation wherein she bribes quartermasters to "lose" supplies that she then sells to Luthen, and also middle-mans deals to sell other stolen supplies. We know she is not completely an honest person - she is short-changing Cassian on his sales, she is lying to Timm about what she is up to ("errands"). We know that she is tough enough to handle herself amongst the types of people this world attracts - and that Cassian is confident enough that he doesn't feel like he needs to worry about her. We see that she has complex relationships with different people - she treats Timm completely differently from how she treats Cassian.

As an aside, I doubt any of these other characters (such as Bix) are Kenari. Every time Kenari comes up, everyone (in the know) immediately knows that it means Cassian. I don't think there are other Kenari on Ferrix.

 

I'm sorry for causing such an uproar regarding Bix. You made your point, I'm sorry I have not been feeling well lately. I am about to start therapy for my OCD soon.

Edit: That Plo Koon gif was irritating to me so I replaced it with still image. My condition makes me irritable at times. Sometimes it's fictional character, sometimes something else that irritates me.

 

Bix is central to the plot. Without her Cassian lays low for a bit and then gets a part-time construction job.


Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk

 

I think I'll state here pretty much the same opinion I did on SB, to wit:

With the tone of how Andor has gotten off on, at this point I would be perfectly happy if absolutely no Force wielding space wizards show up in it at any point whatsoever. IMHO it'll actually be better that way.

I just hope Gilroy has the clout level for that, and there isn't some meddling Mouse executive leaning over his shoulder saying "no, if it's a Star Wars show, at some point there must be a Force user in it, otherwise the viewers, who are morons, might forget that it's Star Wars."

Furthermore, they will undoubtedly visit various planets and locales, but for the love of all things holy, don't go to Tatooine!

It seems like almost every single Star Wars story, every single set of characters, at some point has to end up on Tatooine, somehow, even if it makes no sense. They just can't resist shoe-horning that place into the story. The Tyranny of Tatooine. I would be very happy to see Gilroy break with that stupid tradition.

 

I guess death of Timm serves as motivation for her character later on. I take back most what I said about Bix okay? Would you others now give it the rest too?

I still didn't like her much or her scenes with Timm though in episode 2. Just felt awkward to watch. But those were only scenes and characters which I didn't like in first 3 episodes. I like this show a lot by far. Looking forward to upcoming episodes and character development for Bix and Cassian in particular.

 

There was no intention of causing you distress, but the topic of women representation in SW is pretty delicate.

Now, the scene between Timm and Bix, as awkward as it may look to some people, was necessary for us to understand why Timm would betray Cassian. It all flows smoothly, there is nobody wondering why it happened because the show took good care in making a point that Timm loves Bix more than anything, he is jealous, and he fears he might lose her at any moment.

 

This. Star Wars often leaves the “why” of character motivations pretty broadly-sketched. This show is sketching those motivations in fine, and for some, boring or awkward detail. That can be uncomfortable if you’re expecting the normal Star Wars style (it was a little jarring even more me on first viewing), but on a character and story level, it makes things flow very…rationally. All character actions make total sense. There’s no ambiguity about it.

 

Yeah, I really enjoyed that. Here, after a long time, I did not have the usual feeling like something doesn't add up. Maybe there can be details to nitpick, but at least the plot felt virtually spotless.

 

Well yes female representation is delicate issue. I am not against female characters but show should have some focus. BOBF totally messed it's own focus with Mando...

I still honestly wonder what was the point of all those Timm/Bix scenes. Yes it was important to establish that Timm betrayed Cassian. But that made Timm the one to blame for his own death actually. Maybe Bix won't see it that way though. But so far it puzzles me why we needed to focus on Timm and Bix relationship in episode 2 so much. It was only important to establish Timm was jealous and ratted Cassian out. They spent a lot of time with character that ended up dead very quickly. Maybe the idea was to establish and flesh out characters but didn't work for me very well. But if Bix is one of Kenarians that makes a whole lot more sense. And she apparently cared for Timm despite everything so her revenge on corpos/empire may be the reason they were focused on. Bix was Luthen's contact so she is key character in this show. I wonder if she stays on Ferrix anymore though? Is Ferrix going to stay as important locale for entire show? Like Lothal was in Rebels.

Anyway moving on. I didn't like those scenes of characters very much, but they didn't ruin the episodes or show for me. I'm sorry for saying stuff that made people angry.

Plot was good, but pacing was not for my liking. I really liked characters of Syril Karn, Luthen Rael, B2EMO, Linus Mosk, Maarva and Clem Andor. Brasso is probably going to be another important character later on. Cannot say much about him yet. Shouldn't have said much about Bix either since we have only seen so little of her yet. Had a bad day back then.

 

We all have bad days, hang in there.

Id say Ferrix will be center point for all of season one. Who is Brasso again?

 

The miner guy who's Cassian's friend.