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Amph Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon — Fire & Blood book spoilers must be TAGGED

Discussion in 'Community' started by GrandAdmiralJello , Oct 29, 2019.

  1. nilzo antonio

    nilzo antonio Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2015
    In the books about 2 years tops.
    But i think they will change that from the books.The thing that's really odd is the first season ( 10 episodes) covered roughly 30 years; so there's no logic IMHO the next 30 episodes ( seasons 2-4) cover only 2 years.
    Also, as evidence the 8th episode Aegon the younger and Viserys second of his name were only toddlers, but by the Civil war end

    Aegon III should be at least 11 years old when crowned.
    So i think odds are the Dance of the Dragons will be longer in the Tv series
    Another point: they left a lot out, speeding through these 30 years. They could have developed Rhaenira/Harwin story; show more about Daemon and Laena daughters ( very diferent characters from the book), show Laena claiming Vaghar, and

    Daeron Targaryen. This week GRR Martin said he will show in season 2.Probably not the most important character ever, but to the Tv fans that never followed the books it will be a really WTF moment when they learn Viserys and Alicent had more kids
    ~
    There were reports that Millie Alcock and Emily Carey will return. So i'm guessing, also, a lot of flash backs to fill the voids
    As for the families/houses, the season finale will indeed introduce
    Borros Baratheon and his daughters. And the confrontation between Aemond and Lucerys that follows
    So, that's a gimme a lot of House will be important coming seasons, specially that from the never forgeting north
    {spoiler]Personally i'm very curious to see who will play Cregan Stark[/spoiler]
     
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  2. The Jedi in the Pumas

    The Jedi in the Pumas Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2018
    Any chance the show deviates from the books in any significant ways?
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Since the plan seems to be 3-4 seasons, I think the last 5 episodes could be jump forwards that tackle the political uncertainty and machinations until you-know-who takes full charge, similar to season 1’s first 5 episodes.

    Also are Laena and Baela really that different in the books at this point?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
  4. tymaux

    tymaux Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2019
    What they did with Alicent is criminal. They removed all agency and ambition from her and made her victim of sexual exploitation again.

    I am disgusted.

    And Aegon is now rapist and he loves watching children fighting to death? This is morally grey?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2022
  5. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    No, it’s Legally Blonde.
     
  6. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    Punk, they are disgusted. This is not a time for levity.
     
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  7. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    The writer for this episode and creator of this show has disagreed on Daemon and his love for family. And she the reason why we have not seen more posetive Daemon, like scene with his kids. I hope this writer dosent ruin this show. She dosent fit the world of grey characters.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
  8. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    OK, I’ll be serious…

    What was really meant by that bee/flower metaphor? We’ve all seen what Bees do to flowers aggressively rubbing themselves over them promiscuously. And don’t get me started on flowers. Those little tarts are practically begging for it.

    Now I’m disgusted.
     
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  9. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    I’m not sure I want to explain what is the bee and what is the flower, because I think I’m going to be sick.
     
  10. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Since it was mentioned, Daemon beheading the prince was also a weird scene, not so much on Daemon side, but more for the prince completely switching his brain off and saying things he obviously shouldn't say, so that they could have their plot twist+graphic violence combo as usual. So far, this has been the main way the writers create drama in the show. People talking without thinking meet people killing without thinking. It's a game of bullies and psychopaths, where no character appears to have any clue of what to do apart from the littlefinger-ish ones.
     
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  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    I mean isn’t that realistic for an extremely prideful person who’s been pushed to the edge? I think we need to allow room for characters to make stupid decisions in the moment.
     
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  12. soitscometothis

    soitscometothis Chosen One star 6

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    Jul 11, 2003
    I have enjoyed every episode of this show, but there's always that 'water cooler moment' that is there to shock you with how brutal and lawless this society is, and it often doesn't make sense. I think Fire & Blood is better at these than some of the Game of Thrones equivalents, but they're still annoying.

    I do think some people are overexaggerating Criston Cole's propensity for violence - as others have pointed out, it isn't random. It is, however, badly written, imo.
     
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  13. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Something else to consider: It's not just feet; he's wealthy and powerful, so he can see feet whenever he wants. It's not just her feet; he can check them out, and wait until later to do what he does. It's that he makes her stay around while he does what he does. She's the most powerful woman in all of Westeros; but that power comes from her relationship with a man, and they both know it. And for all that man-derived power, she is still subject to him, and they both know it. Part of why he gets his jollies is that he's on a power trip.

    [face_sick]
     
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  14. The Jedi in the Pumas

    The Jedi in the Pumas Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 23, 2018
    ….. uh…. I don’t think that’s how fetishes work. We don’t have to get into the meat and potatoes of it, but her being there while he pleasures himself makes complete sense.

    As far as her power coming from a man… fam this is a medieval-fantasy genre of course the women largely derive power the males, but I took the scene to be more of a quid pro quo scene. She lets him see her feet, he does littlefinger things, I don’t see a massive exploitation of anyone.

    I mean if there is exploitation… she’s using her feet to get him to murder people. I feel like in addition to not having him be an enemy, she has him essentially doing all her dirty work.
     
  15. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Two Truths & Lie winner! star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 22, 2003
    I mean in the context of GoT a foot fetish is pretty innocent.
     
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  16. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    Christian Cole is functionally a serial killer at this point. What is this wild lack of consequences? Why is this show like this?
     
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  17. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Two Truths & Lie winner! star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 22, 2003
    Oops! I did it again.
     
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  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    That's how I am with it as well - it's good enough to be genuinely fun to watch and an excellent actors' showcase, but there's a bit of a "Rated TV-MA Bingo" nature to it that sometimes rears its head as a bit of a trashy, short-cut-y style that, when the show knowingly leans into it can work, but when the show tries to sort of just treat it as par for the course of prestige TV, makes me a bit cynical about prestige TV.

    With both these characters, I think they've fundamentally changed conceptualization for them at a character level while still sticking them into the framework of their actions and activities from Fire and Blood... which has resulted in a bit of an emphasizing of problematic aspects of both the new concepts and the old story in weird areas.

    In Fire and Blood, Cole is a take on Warwick the Kingmaker, and Alicent the Evil Stepmother - they're both portrayed as more ruthless, banal but rational schemers among a pack of other ruthless, banal but rational schemers. Thus, in the books, Cole is a cold blooded killer and a much more controlled one who's plotting is emphasized, and Alicent is more Catherine de Medici in style.

    In the show, they're more like twisted deconstructions of Lancelot for Cole and both the Evil Stepmother and Guinevere for Alicent, with the traits chosen then having less rational and more purely emotional natures. Cole has an almost Monty Python Lancelot type of violence to his nature while being a bit gormless... and Monty Python was poking fun at how violent and blunt Lancelot was in the Arthurian Romances. Alicent, meanwhile, has her victimhood ramped up arguably beyond the needs of the story, sort of as a parable for the sexism and lack of agency even powerful women experience even as they manipulate part of the patriarchy.

    I think it *does* give the actors more to work with than the straightforward schemers and sociopaths of the book... but it's countered by some of the intellectually lazy plotting and contextualization used to do so.

    ...I still like it, but i know my view of the show has more of a trashy nature because Daemon and Aemond are my two favorite character, who I still think the show is sort of intentionally trying to center itself around in terms of morality, leaving it a bit stunted.
     
  19. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 25, 2013
    Does anyone know why Criston Cole got to put the crown on Egg-gone?

    It’s as if Prince Charles was coronated by his security guard.
     
  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    It's a left over detail from the book, where Cole is the Kingmaker.

    Since that doesn't really fit the show's version, maybe it's a way that Alicent is exercising her power by having someone she knows she controls more than her father do it?
     
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  21. 3sm1r

    3sm1r Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 27, 2017
    They were reluctant to entrust anyone to get so close to the king, so they chose the most emotionally stable and reliable person around.
     
  22. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Two Truths & Lie winner! star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 22, 2003
    what I thought was weird was that no-one even checked to see if Bill Patterson was dead.
     
  23. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony 2x Two Truths&Lie winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Mar 9, 2003
    I wonder if Bill Patterson's death is the reason we don't see the small council have large marbles in GOT.
     
  24. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I hope King Bran Three Eyed Raven is like time travel warg watching all of this and is comparing stupid decisions by people in King's Landing across the centuries.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
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  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    What was the point of those?
     
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