What would have happened to Star Wars and the Expanded Universe if Lucas and Lucasfilm in general never made anymore movies after the Original Trilogy (no Prequels, Sequels, etc.), instead allowing stories in the Star Wars galaxy to be told through the books, comics, games, and even cartoons (good ones, that is)? I think the Expanded Universe would grow to the point it could possibly become as well-known as the original movies (given time and good stories), taking a lot of elements and maybe in the style of the 90s EU. I really like most of the 90s EU stories (aside from stuff like Palpatine coming back from the dead), since we got to see not only how the New Republic and the new Jedi start, but go into millennia before the Original Trilogy. As such, these types of stories would continued to be told and maybe even make Star Wars into a full-on multimedia project, that could become as well known as the Original Trilogy to a general audience. I’m more than happy with the Prequel Trilogy George Lucas gave us, with the NJO, KOTOR, SWTOR and most of the modern EU. However, I think it would be interesting to imagine the possible alternative stories that the authors could have written. Personally, I think if the Prequels had been developed through books, comics and novels, then we would have had a story more or less similar to the one we already have. Not quite the same, of course, but similar in many aspects. Probably the Clone Wars would have been developed as originally intended, that is, as a clash between the Republic and an Army of Clones. But I think the whole "Jedi have no attachments" thing would still exist and that it would play an important role in Anakin’s fall. Also, I think Anakin would have fallen to the Dark Side for reasons more or less similar to those we see in the movies. We shouldn’t forget that George Lucas had a certain influence in the EU, so I believe that many of the things we already know now through the Prequels would have been preserved.
Initially, Tom Veitch wanted to write a comic set in the prequel era, but when he was told that prequel movies were more likely to be made than sequel movies, he switched to writing a comic set after ROTJ.
I would imagine the post-ROTJ EU would look similar to the old Legends canon as it exists, with some elements changed- but these elements (namely the Sith movements after the Yuuzhang Vong era) would be affected by the pre-ANH EU. I think we'd see more elements in prequel-era/Clone Wars stories present in pre-1999 EU works, such as Dark Empire, Heir to the Empire, and the Han Solo novels of both the late 70s and the 90s. The fall of Anakin would likely be told in book form, and we'd see such elements (the character of Thrawn, the Noghri, etc) in those stories that take the place of the existing PT. There would be some inconsistencies, given that the authors would have some more room to explore their pre-EU headcanons regarding the rise of the Empire and Anakin's turn. Elements introduced during this era of the hypothetical EU would carry to the New Jedi Order and Legacy eras (Luke and Leia's mother, the military of the Republic, the clones, the structure of the Jedi Order, and the planets and aliens introduced in 90s EU). Timothy Zahn would probably be a heavy influence in PT and Clone Wars era lore.
The way that GreyJedi91 describes a light-side inverse of Darth Malgus pretty much sums up what I thought a pre-Vader Anakin would be as a kid. That said, I'm happy with the EU we got post-1998. As a fan of Tolkien's legendarium, I am fond of the EU for similar reasons.
I changed my mind about how this alternative Star Wars universe would look like. This is my uploaded opinion: As far as the Prequels are concerned, I think that, given time, we would get an alternate take on the Prequel Trilogy and Anakin Skywalker's story after the conclusion of the New Jedi Order series, as to not complicate things lore-wise during production. Once that's wrapped up, I believe that's when authors and other executives will turn their attention to create a project dedicated to telling the full story of the Clone Wars, the fall of the Republic, and Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader. It would be like the Clone Wars Multimedia Project, but it starts at the very beginning of the alternate PT's story and goes from there, expanding Anakin and Obi-Wan's characters while introducing new characters that are connected with already-established material. I believe the Clone Wars here would follow something along the lines of Timothy Zahn's envisioned version of the Clone Wars, while taking some artistic liberties of cut content from decades prior (such as the scrapped Kenner toy-line with Atha Prime). We would see Republic soldiers against enemy cloned warriors in a war that would last for many years, devastating the galaxy and whittling the Jedi Knights' numbers over time. Whether or not the Jedi are destroyed during or after the war's conclusion is up in the air, along with how quickly the Republic transformed into the Empire. The authors would probably try to focus on what the films set up first with backstories (Anakin and Owen's brotherhood, Obi-Wan convincing Anakin to leave Tatooine to fight in the war, etc.) and then the rest is filled in with EU stories (some of which are quickly rectified to avoid continuity problems). Plus, the Jedi would be allowed to marry and have families; in fact, I reckon we could see some GoT-style conflict between Jedi dynasties and their views on the Force, Clone Wars, etc. It could even pave the way for a Jedi civil war but set in the Clone Wars era, with the survivors later hooking up with Palpatine's Inquisitors or going into hiding As far as the NJO is concerned, had Lucas decided to give the keys of the franchise over to EU authors, I believe Star by Star wouldn't have killed off Anakin Solo and things would progress from there. The Solo Kids would reunite and lead the charge to retake Coruscant from the Yuuzhan Vong, each sibling goes off on their own path to find their calling (Anakin to become Luke's successor, Jacen to explore the mysteries of the Force, and Jaina to continue being the "Sword of the Jedi") and the post-Endor stuff would conclude there. If not, then it would probably focus more on the recovery aspect of the galaxy following the war's end or Jacen's journey to learning about the Force while Anakin and Jaina deal with some small crisis back in their galaxy. Without the PT films, most of the stuff the post-NJO had to work off of (Dark Nest with the Padme subplot, LOTF with the Mando ****, and Legacy comics with Krayt's backstory) would result in a massive change and/or overhaul of plans following this. As far as the post-Tales of the Jedi Old Republic is concerned, I think that without the PT films, KOTOR's aesthetic would follow more of what we see in TOTJ. I think the story would remain the same, however, regarding Revan and Malak. SWTOR would also have the aesthetic change thing, and the Bane books would remain the same. However, I think that the Darth title would have been introduced in the Bane books themselves, as well as the rule to have a red lightsaber. But before the Bane books, I think the Sith would have been depicted the same way they're depicted in TOTJ. Overall, I think this would be a better universe for Star Wars as a whole, as the fandom would be more united. Instead of having OT fans against PT fans against ST fans against EU fans against Canon fans, we would only have film purists against those who accept both the films and the EU. And that’s it. There wouldn’t be as much division as there is today.
The Clone Wars would be what was mentioned in the Thrawn Trilogy. Sate Pestage, Ars Dangor, Kinman Doriana, Tarkin, and anti-alien bigotry would have bigger roles in the rise of the Empire. No Darths other than Vader. No Rule of Two. Palpatine might not be a “Dark Lord of the Sith” (Empire’s End suggests this). Jorus C’Baoth, Ashka Boda, and Vima Da-Boda would have bigger roles in the Clone Wars and early Imperial eras. The Jedi would be allowed to get married. Anakin would have a biological father. No midichlorians. No Chosen One prophecy. Lightsabers wouldn’t be color-coded according to faction or side of The Force. Obi-Wan and Owen would be brothers. Jaster Mereel would be Boba Fett’s true name. No Ruusan Reformations.
If Lucas was Done with Star Wars and let others to make the Prequels i would have seen that Bantam would have done Novels of the Prequels in the 90s but im sure they would have been very different im sure Obi Wan and Owen Lars were Brothers or Friends Anakin/Vader would be more Older and the Clones would have been the Villains they would not be Boba Fett Dad Clones i think an Original EU Clone Wars would be very inspired by the Marvel depiction of the Clone Wars with Mandalorians Fighting in the War or Timothy Zahn Clone Wars with Clones everywhere i can see Leia Mother not being named Padme or she not being a Senator she would have survived the Clone Wars and raised Leia maybe the Clone Wars was not a creation of Palpatine probably characters like Dooku or Qui Gon will not existed it would have been interesting to see a different version of the Prequels
To be fair, if you're looking at a versus, it's Thrawn, Dark Empire, Yuuzhan Vong, Caedus, Abeloth, Krayt vs Nihil, Thrawn, Crimson Dawn, Mandalorian and the ST. They each have pros and cons.
You and me both, Sarge. But I do think that time was more optimistic with it's story-telling...even with the 'weapon of the week' showdowns. Personally, I think the idea of a book-series about the Clone Wars (something akin to NJO) would have been more interesting than a couple of movies about it.
It would have been interesting to see what the Prequels without the movies would have looked like visually. I wonder if they were would have diverted so much from the Original Trilogy or if they would keep a lot of the same ships and planets. How many aliens, ships, droids, and planets would have still happened? I guess that would depend if the concept art of the Prequels was still made and the same designs were accepted, which Lucas played a pretty big role in. It would be interesting if Lucas made his Prequels into books only and made no movies. I think it would be more universally well-regarded and be seen as essential reading like TTT is. However, I imagine there would be a smaller fanbase around Star Wars, even if TCW and other shows were made. It would also be really weird for Lucas (a film, comics and tv guy) to just write books or have somebody else write books for his story. If they were all at ROTS novelization levels then I guess it would be cool, but I haven't read the other two novelizations. What other people are saying in this thread sounds cooler. I just wonder who would write these books. I guess the best choice would be Stover since his Dark Lord Trilogy best fits as a book substitute for the Prequel movies. But IIRC Veitch wanted to do Anakin Skywalker's story and did his iterations of that for DE and TOTJ. It would be cool to see what his idea for the Fall of Anakin was gonna be.
Star Wars would not be as financially lucrative, I can say that. The prequels made insane money at the box office and merchandise. As far as the Disney-owned Lucasfilm goes, The Force Awakens made insane money as well, and Rogue One and The Last Jedi met or exceeded their projections. Solo bombed, and The Rise of Skywalker underperformed (but still was profitable). Without the prequels and even the post-Lucas films and tv, less people would be drawn to buying the expanded universe and merchandise in general. Star Wars would still be kicking and profitable, but it probably wouldn't average more than a novel a year. Video games are murkier, as the EA deal has led to far less of them. But I also think the huge amount of Star Wars video games from the mid- 90s to the early 2010s has a lot to do with films after the original trilogy. As for the story? The prequel era would be way more like The Thrawn Trilogy references to The Clone Wars, and there would be more cohesion with the original trilogy. Obi-Wan would likely be directly instructed by Yoda to his knighthood and would find Anakin himself. Palpatine would likely never be a Sith, and the Sith would be at least somewhat different. He would likely use a lightsaber less as well.
I agree that Star Wars would not be as profitable, but at first I did not think they would be down to a single book a year. I did not think that Del Rey would stop making Star Wars books simply because the Bantam era had shown that an EU only approach could work. After running through the scenario a bit more, I changed my mind. I don't think they would stop, but, short of a major bestseller like TTT or the Prequel's novelizations, I speculated that in this alternate timeline they would gradually thin out according to your suggestion. In our timeline, NJO with 19 books was published from 1999-2003 while the PT was released from 1999-2005. The two ongoing series benefited from the the same marketing, which made such a large series a good idea. Without the Prequel movies this effect is lost, and I doubt 19 books would be considered. Del Rey might still consider some large book gambit just to announce their acquisition of the license. So let's say they do 3 trilogies of 9 books instead of the 19. The author count is similarly reduced to 3-9, although I'd imagine they would still strive to get a lot of different authors. Now, in our timeline only 5 of the NJO books hit the New York Times' Bestseller list. So assuming the same result I would consider the NJO a modest commercial success. Not enough to scrap Star Wars books but still resulting in a downsizing of the number of books per year. Maybe the Dark Nest Trilogy and the Darth Bane Trilogy are slimmed down to one book each. LOTF and FOTJ are each slimmed down to a trilogy with one author. A lot of standalone books could be cancelled. I am not sure about the particulars of Sword of the Jedi trilogy in our timeline; in this alternate timeline I will assume it is released as a single book. Assuming NJO releases one trilogy a year, this means the series ends in 2001 rather than 2003. Then 2002 would be a gap year where Dark Nest (or its alternate analog) is released. LOTF is released as one book a year from 2003-2005, when in our timeline it was released from 2006-2008. Then FOTJ is similarly released from 2006-2009, again three years behind our timeline. Then Sword of the Jedi in 2010. There would still be standalones, just not any from the Prequel era. So Zahn's books, a lot of which made it to the bestseller's list, will stay along with the odd Old Republic book like Darth Bane or Revan. And then maybe other odd books like the trend-chasing Death Troopers. This keeps us at about 2 adult books a year from 2002 until around 2010. Then from 2010 onward, unless there was another adult novel series, Star Wars would be down to a single book a year. The justification for another big series would be good sales from FOTJ. I have seen their status on the bestseller lists from our timeline - a lot of them made it to the top 15 but just barely. The last one, Apocalypse, did make it to #2. So there's a chance Del Rey would plan something like a bridge series between the Sword book and the Legacy comics, but it's pure speculation. Though I would imagine Legacy still gets made in this alternate timeline, I can not predict a bridge series happening other than it makes sense. This assumes there is no Clone Wars Multimedia Project that tells the story of the Prequels in books, comics, games, and TV. This CWMMP probably aligns with TTT and other works. If that were the case I would imagine the 2 books a year rate would make it to 2015. But this possibility does highlight a big weakness of the EU, one that arguably continues today. Essentially, the EU has always required the movies. On its own, the post-ROTJ book series became too long for newcomers to catch up to the new releases. It requires a movie series to introduce fans to a new era that the books can then spawn off from. Star Wars books are not like Frankenstein or Ender's Game where they stand on their own. They require you to have seen the OT or the PT. In other words, the Post-ROTJ era has overgrown its lot and some new space is needed. Could Del Rey have done this on their own? Maybe, but I doubt the motivation would have been there for the publishers to do all the work of worldbuilding and marketing that the movie trilogies provide. Maybe some type of MMP with Dark Horse and Lucasarts, but you are still appealing to your existing fans rather than drawing new ones in. You could also advertise a trilogy of books as being "the Prequel trilogy" in the same way that TTT has been held up by some as the "Episodes 7-9." Add that Lucas cowrote them and actually title them "Episodes 1-3" to really sell the deal. But this scenario does dictate no Prequels or Sequels so I won't go further. I think if this MMP were to succeed, you would have to have Lucas on board. It could be as simple as allowing the Clone Wars, Yoda, or the Big 3's deaths. It could be as major as movies (the PT!) or tv (TCW!). He could also just sell the company, not necessarily to Disney. Because Lucas was the prime mover, Star Wars required him to act or else it would die. I might continue this thought experiment later and cover the comics and games.
If the PT hadn`t happened SW would have become a niche francise mostly existing in the EU, via novels and comics with the occasional video game. The PT happening set in motion events for SW staying/returning to be in the mainstream. Eventually leading us to things like The Clone Wars, the ST and the various TV shows we are now getting. What timeline you prefer really comes down to personal preference...
Well I figured out the comics - nothing really changes. Dark Horse has always had a bit of an independence streak and has not stumbled as much as the book publishers in the off years. In the Bantam Era they were a little slow to have an ongoing series; most of there stuff was rather limited. There is a big unknown in this scenario: Does the Republic comics begin at all and do they last as long as they did? This series went from 1998 to 2006 and had 83 issues. It was Dark Horse's first really long Star Wars comic, earlier runs stopped before 40 issues. It could be conjectured that Republic was only made and only successful because of the Prequels. I am going to assume that Dark Horse was in a position to make this monthly comic in 1998 regardless of the Prequels and Lucasfilm still asks them to do this (or at least doesn't stop them). I think it would originally be called "Star Wars" before being called "Republic" just like in our timeline. So if it's not about the Prequels, then what is Republic's story? Well, it'll cover Jedi like Ki-Adi-Mundi, K'Kruhk, and Quinlan Vos thousands of years before the OT. I would like to imagine it carries over TOTJ's aesthetic but it's just as likely that it matches the OT or the PT's concept art if that is still made in this alternate timeline. It's possible that, barring some Prequel references like Anakin and Obi-wan (which is a lot of the Republic line), I think the storylines of Republic stay mostly unchanged. There's a Republic and it's having an internal crisis. The Jedi are involved in the buildup and, later, the war. It would depend how involved Lucas is with the line; for Dark Empire I remember Veitch said it was Lucas who suggested a return of the Emperor. So maybe Lucas gives an infodump of his PT vision to Dark Horse. If so, then there might be Anakin and Obi-wan analogues. If not, stuff like the Hetts, Jabiim, and the Stark Hyperspace War would still happen, just with a different context that Dark Horse created. There would be a lot more of the plot about how the war started and how it ends - likely with the "Anakin" analog (maybe Sharad/Krayt) turning to the Dark Side and trying to destroy the Jedi Order. One thing I am not sure on would be if it would be Clones vs Droids and Republic vs Separatists. The dark-siders might be more prominent and the forces might be mostly vanilla soldiers as in earlier Star Wars media. Would it have reached 2006 and 83 issues? Idk, but it's Dark Horse, I imagine they could pull something like this off. The fact that the run was actually linked up with the PT so well does lead me to believe that, without that crutch, this alternate Republic line could be shorter. However, if Lucas provides a lot of ideas and sanctions it I would expect it to make it to 2006 or even longer. If that's the case, it may be possible that some of the various "Clone Wars" comics from 2003-2013 would still occur. Those comics are the hardest ones to save in this timeline; they are probably voided unless Lucasian Interference is brought in. This delves into the last bit of the alternate comics lines. Because in our 2006, Dark Horse started 4 of them: Legacy (-2014, 74 issues), Dark Times (-2012, 33 issues), Rebellion (-2008, 17 issues), and Knights of the Old Republic (-2012, 67 issues). Before 2006, the only other major monthly line was Empire (2002-2006, 40 issues). In this alternate timeline, the dates and issue count might be a bit off. But in general, I think most of these runs would still go on in a world without the PT. The only two I would question are Dark Times and KOTOR. KOTOR depends on if the game is still released. I'll get to the games down below. Dark Times was a continuation of Republic that followed the start of the Empire and the Jedi Purge. So in this alternate timeline, the existence of Dark Times depends on the success of Republic. If Republic ends with a dark side victory, then this could be the series that reverses that. It would be weird if an Old Republic story stopped with the Sith or other non-Republic figures in charge. As for the rest, that depends on the overall success of the EU. Stuff like Invasion, Knight Errant, Darth Vader, Agent of the Empire, Dawn of the Jedi, and Star Wars (2013) don't depend too heavily on the PT. They all could have been made without it, just with some changes to the plot and references. The question is, just how niche has Star Wars become in this universe? I would think the comics would have the most stamina as fans that pick Star Wars comics up every week tend to be into other comics as well. Although the same argument can be made for books. So yeah, Lucas is the key to all this. He would need to get the ball rolling again. If there is no PT, then is there TCW? Underworld? A sell-off? It's hard to speculate too far past our initial point of divergence, ~1999, so I'll leave the comics here. Games would be the opposite of comics. Because Lucasarts is a lot closer to Lucas' belt, they will suffer the most if there is no PT. This is an area I am not as well-versed in, but basically the 90s saw a boom of Star Wars games. Then, the 2000s had a lot of PT tie-ins. And then the late 2000s onward saw a drop-off of game releases. So yeah, not looking good for games. With Rogue Squadron games already, I don't see a Starfighter happening. There is no need to explore the TPM or AOTC since they don't exist in this alternate timeline. Maybe a Republic comics-inspired Starfighter, but that's more likely to be cancelled. This applies to a lot of games in this era. There could be a focus on the OT and EU. Maybe Bounty Hunter does Boba Fett. Maybe Clone Wars (2002) and Battlefront (2003, 2005) covers Imperials vs Rebels in the OT and Post-ROTJ. I could see KOTOR and Empire at War being released unchanged. Maybe there will be a (New) Republic Commando. Without the initiative of either George or the PT, I imagine a lot of these titles are cancelled. KOTOR is most likely a success as it was more inspired by TOTJ than the PT, getting KOTOR II and TOR. This leads to the KOTOR comics and books in this timeline, a mini-MMP like Shadows of the Empire, but it's not enough for a mass resurgence in Star Wars. Another development to consider is how graphics and game design developed. Just look at the difference between Battlefront (2005) and Battlefront (2015). So future games might be re-skins of past ones. But I am out of my element here, so I'll stop myself. One benefit of this timeline is that George Lucas does not get his name dragged through the mud as much. I think more people respect him and there isn't a decade where opinions are divided on him and Star Wars. Instead of fans dropping the saga because of a reaction against the PT or other media, we would see a more gradual drop-off due to stamina. At some point, one more book, comic, or game is too many. And if they continue to be self-referential and continuity focused, then the problem continues. If the EU were to continue in this timeline, with no PT or ST or Lucasian Interefence, then the comics would become the prime mover of the EU. Dark Horse had the best strategy of all the media branches. Jump into a new era, a new situation, and re-invent the wheel. Books and games might follow them around in limited numbers: maybe 1/3 game and 1 book per year. This is close to what already happened: Shadows of the Empire (1996) had a book, game, and comics; Force Unleashed (2008, 2010) ditto, Knight Errant (2010-12) had a comic and book, KOTOR/TOR (2003-ongoing) had 3 games, 4 books, and a comic, Dawn of the Jedi (2012-14) had a comic and a book. Ongoing, I would expect to see Lucasarts, Del Rey, and Dark Horse collaborate even more. At first, Del Rey seemed to avoid Dark Horse, not letting them in on the plot for NJO. Lucasarts mostly focused on the movies, exceptions already being named. As the post-ROTJ becomes more self-referential and disconnected from the OT, I think Del Rey will, like in our timeline, follow Dark Horse around and split off into different areas. New characters, new situations, just keeping the Star Wars idea alive. There might even be more stuff like Visionaries, Tales, and Infinity that are off the timeline. After awhile, around 2015, they could reach into a new generation and see a Star Wars revival. Now I am conjecturing again, best to end off here. I would say Star Wars remained mainstream throughout the 90s and into the 2000s. People still watched the OT and showed their kids. The MCU would be major challenger to Star Wars' position in public consciousness. Before ~2008 the 1980s blockbusters were pushed into the "classics." It would be a gradual loss of fans based on generation. Despite this, I think Star Wars could return to the mainstream at any point before 2025. By that point, the Gen Xer's that form the original fans of Star Wars are aging out and their kids are adults. Any film could jump-start the franchise, but they could also fail at that. I think the PT was a success in that regard. The biggest thing is to make the release an "event." An announcement from years away, a big merchandise push, and then some time off between films. TCW and TFA nailed the first two, subsequent films failed on all marks. Even now, there's nothing special about the TV shows. Other people are enjoying them and Disney+ is still alive. I just prefer Star Wars in small doses. It can and has stayed in the mainstream that way.
I really like your analysis, overall i think Star Wars as a whole would become much more niche especially now in the 2020 decade, due to the long absence of the franchise in the public counsciousness, that said if Star Wars still had games like KOTOR expanding the Old Republic storyline i feel that would be the primary way it would draw more new fans in the 2000's, i know plenty of people and entire fan groups that started being interested in Star Wars due to the KOTOR series, they knew about the movies, but they didin't draw them in or anything, they simply casually bought KOTOR like any other game not tied to an existent IP and became fans for the game alone. So i think today in this alternate world the Star Wars fandom could still have a moderately big fanbase made out of "2000's kids" but it would be more of a gaming fanbase instead of something more dedicated to the franchise as a whole, that subset of the fandom already exists, one that treats the KOTOR series as the main thing and the EU as complementary of those (rather than KOTOR and the comics being all complementary to the movies), but even though it would be a big fanbase it wouldn't be as big as it is now, but this is all assuming something like KOTOR even happens, if the games also become niche then this wouldn't happen.
I like Lucas PT but i would have liked to see a PT closer to the OT Feel and Vision i would have liked to know Another Reason or Story of why Anakin Turned to the Dark Side Another Story other than Saving his Wife from his Visions in Dreams imagine if the Jedi of the PT were like the Jedi from KOTOR 2 with them being more Selfish or Corrupt it would have been more justifiable why Anakin wanted to leave the Jedi Order i dont know how the Clones would have been in an Alternative Version of the PT i think like Timothy Zahn Clones where normal people Cloned themselves and seemed to be a Clone Pandemic i would have liked to see a Comic with Another Version of the PT
