ST Has your opinion of The Force Awakens changed with the ST finished?

I also think Abrams' style is just uber-superficial, and that contributed to editing and writing decisions that would ultimately render the whole ST world unmemorable, ephemeral, and ultimately, superficial.

 

That person then has no idea what hes talking about. (I guess)

David Fincher
Ridley Scott
Clint Eastwood
Alfred Hitchcock
never wrote a screenplay before.

JJ is capable director, TFA is a fine movie in terms of directing, he just got way too much control on these productions.
Just let him direct like he was originally hired to do in 2013, not co-produce and co-write the screenplay.

 

Not really, but it did seem to confirm what I've suspected and previously posted: that the production team for all three films never sat down on the first day to figure out just what sort of story they were doing. As a result, they made a movie series (like, say, the Hammer "Dracula" movies) rather than a true trilogy. Abrams, Johnson and, presumably, Treverrow were mainly concerned in telling their own vaguely-connected stories, rather than chapters of a single story, with Abrams slapping together something that would sort-of function as a conclusion.
Now, if that's what Disney/LFL wanted, that's OK. But call it what it truly is, not a unified story in three parts.

 

Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan and Denis V. did the ST? Dare to dream. I actually like TFA but have no desire to watch the other 2 ever again.

 

You mean if the ST had been three never-ending, monochrome, desolate space epics with monotonous, ominous music blaring throughout?
Yeah, I can imagine.

That's not a dig at never-ending, monochrome, desolate space epics with monotonous, ominous music blaring throughout in general. I love that stuff and would even welcome it in the Star Wars universe. I just think it would've been too weird a choice for the ST.
And no, I don't think either of those directors would've been able or willing to adapt to the style of the Skywalker Saga.

But maybe I'm wrong! Maybe that kind of ST would've been a great twist.

 

No I'm not sure Nolan or Villeneuve would have been the best fit for the ST, but they would have made immeasurably better Star Wars films than what we got. So I guess the question for Lucasfilm is should they handover Star Wars to a better calibre of creative visionary, regardless, or does Star Wars have to fit a certain template, even if it stops it evolving (see Indiana Jones)? I'd like to think there's a sweet spot somewhere where mostly everyone could be happy. I think the James Bond Franchise is going through the same conversation. Nolan is up for it, but Broccoli would really need to give over complete control to him... from casting to tone.

 

And the person who cared the most about connecting the two movies got fired, beacause he couldnt crack the code when Carrie passed away.

Seriously it was just a first draft, so a lot would have changed, but even that script was already for the most part way cooler as a ending for the trilogy than the stuff we got from Terrio and Abrams.

 

Yep. DOTF really felt like a natural, logical continuation of TFA and TLJ to me. It was also far more original than the three ST films we got. Unlike TROS, this was not a blatant ROTJ rehash (but a more elegant variation on the same basic scenario), nor did it mindlessly mimic any other part of the Saga. CT genuinely tried to bring something new to the table and while his film might not have had much to do with the overall Saga narrative, it at least closed the trilogy in an interesting and rewarding way that gave all major characters from the two previous installments a meaningful - and fitting - role to play.
Judging by the draft.

 

Watch any Trevorrow movie. And then be grateful that he didn’t conclude the Skywalker saga.

And I say this as someone who really dislikes JJ’s films. Trevorrow really is that bad. Do not waste any time wishing his film had been made.

 

Naaah. Jurassic World minus sexist humor was pretty solid in my book. He could have pulled it off.

...if he had dropped the whole "Poe should have an almost-fling with Rey because he's the only guy who hasn't had one yet" plotline.

 

I think a different director and a writer editing the DotF script would have been the way to go

I’d disagree that Jurassic World is solid (whatever that means now), but in any case Star Wars deserves something better than solid,

 

"how can we make everything ultra realistic and serious?"

Lightsabers would be the first thing to go I reckon.

 

I think out of the 2, DOTF or TROS. I think TROS was the best one to go with.

Taking into consideration that this was not only the last of the trilogy but the last of the Skywalker saga too, there was a lot that needed to be done. This film if any needed to feel like it was closing a saga of all 9 movies and really tie them together. So i don't think episode 9 was the movie to attempt something too fresh and new. I know people still think episode 10 is gonna happen. I personally don't. And thats why bringing back Palpatine actually helped add a connective threat through 3 eras of 9 episodes.

Sure there could have been changes and whatever to make TROS better. i ain't saying it didn't have issues. But i think structurally they were on the right path with TROS.

 

Yeah, no it didn't. Not the way it was set up - and even set up, it's a horrible idea. It undercuts Anakin's story in 1-6.

If they were going to bring back Palpatine, then that should have been set up in TFA, not shoved into TROS because KK, RJ and the noisy Kylo fans wanted him to turn into some Byronic anti hero. "Somehow, Palpatine has returned" (I hope they paid Oscar some cash for selling that line as best he could) in movie 3 is nuts. To try and sell it when the characters who would be affected by it are all dead except Lando and he wasn't tied to the Force plot is what makes that thing not work. Kylo never knew the Emperor. Retconning Rey into his granddaughter has to win some award for "craziest way to tie rando into a plot."

Also, if they were going to sell some nonsense about the Emperor being reborn as a clone and destroying Luke, Han, Leia et al as some sort of grand scheme, well, then they should have said something about it IN THE MOVIES not in some supplemental material. Leaving us to write your plot for them, as they have done through most of the ST, is not good writing and then, when we do try and write the plot for them, telling fans that the movies could never live up to their headcanon is the worst "sit down, shut up and consume" behavior.

Again, I echo Sallah's description of the N*zis in Raiders - "they have not one brain among them." I refuse to believe JJ's nonsense about he and Kasdan wandering around all these cities for weeks, plotting out what would happen to get to TFA because if that really happened? That says to me that they either didn't care or, more tellingly, they had no idea what they were doing and it makes them look like idiots. I mean, dude, just say you ran out of ideas, sat down and watched ANH over and over so you could rewrite it and Kasdan could get what he wanted to do in ROTJ - to break up Han and Leia and kill Han. I might have more respect for you.

*full disclosure, I have not read Dark Empire but what I have read about it sounds like it's just as stupid as TROS. I'm sorry, it does not fit with the characters. Also, cloning is the worst. The end.

 

The story needed to move forward after ROTJ. Final destination: a new golden age for the Galactic Republic. So in a sense, forward meant back to a thousand years before TPM - not back to the Galactic Civil War and a rematch against the Emperor. That's completely pointless because it adds nothing and distracts the story from what it should be doing.
What happens in the power vacuum that the great evil leaves behind when it falls? When all the forces of greed and compassion in the galaxy vie for control, what kind of chaos will ensue and how will the people then attain unity, order, peace and democracy?
Those are the kinds of questions they should've been asking.

 

I don't think Nolan would have been a good fit for a mainline Star Wars film, but aside from that, maybe it would have been better just to have one director for all three sequel films instead of what we got, with two directors not caring about whatever came after their films (between mystery boxes and creating their own "ending") which really screwed up the overall plot of the trilogy.

In theory a producer could have kept different directors on track so their movies wouldn't clash, but in reality we have Disney-Lucasfilm, so yeah, no chance of that.

I doubt it was writing around the character of Leia that was the big problem but rather that draft had Kylo as the big bad of the movie, and that Disney-Lucasfilm would not accept, no matter how obvious that was as a continuation after TLJ.

I still wouldn't expect much from Trevorrow (skimmed through Dominion, and it might be worse than III), but the draft did at least have more ideas (such as spending at least some time trying to unite the galaxy and not bringing back Palpatine from the dead) than TRoS, although it was still only a draft.

More prep time for Episode IX would have been nice too, rather than Disney going back to one of their earlier directors, but then speed not quality was Disney's priority in getting their big finale out.

 

I think its silly to think they didn't use the DOTF script all because Kylo. They likely didn't use it because they wanted to play it safe. And honestly i sorta agree that did need to play it safe for episode 9 to a point.

Episode 7 of the film you don't play it safe. Episode 9 is the film that is meant to resolve the Skywalker saga and all 9 movies in a way that makes them all one story with a continuing thread. Which means alot of connections and rhyming would be needed. And that probably would include Palpatine in some way as he is a very important character. Heck they brought him back in the post-episode 6 books even before his further importance in the PT.

 

I've watched multiple, and I don't agree one bit. He is far better as a director than both JJ and RJ, even if he had only made the Jurassic World movies.

And sorry but DOTF sounds like it would have been 100 times better than TROS. But that's any script that doesn't involve Palpatine somehow returning, so....

On topic, yes.

My opinion about TFA was actually solidified in January of 2018 as an extremely uninspired, problematic and at the end of the day, bad movie. I didn't have to wait for the conclusion of the trilogy to figure out as much. In fact, I was afraid that TFA was just that even since I first saw it in 2015, but the optimistic and infatuated with Star Wars fan in me was hoping that TLJ would make TFA seem like a much better movie. Nope. It did the opposite.

PS. Since they were mentioned, Nolan and Villeneuve could (and probably would) make Star Wars films that both the audience and the critics would have praised, and that Lucas would be proud of. These two directors don't have just one style, that's why everything they have made is at least great, if not a masterpiece. People who think Nolan only has one style have probably not seen The Prestige or Interstellar. Two very colorful and diverse movies, with lots of filming and directing styles in them.

 

I didn't hate Force Awakens, but I was ten and I basically only watched the previous six movies right before watching it just to watch the new big movie that my dad told me about. I didn't pay attention much to the marketing and I dead-ass thought Finn was the main character watching it, of course it may have been my ten-year-old sexist brain.

Online, young me somewhat defended it against the people calling it crap, but that's only because I didn't see it as an abomination, it looked and felt like a normal movie, but thinking about it, I don't think I "liked" it either. Like, not much in the movie grabbed me, actually made me want to rewatch, it was just new Star Wars.

But looking at it again years later in the context of the sequel trilogy and other distant sequels that resort to rendering the previous media somewhat pointless, my view of this movie is somewhat sour, because ultimately I think it's a poor sequel to Return of the Jedi. Instead of building upon a new type of conflict, it tears everything down, so we can have the exact same setup as the first movie. As a movie itself? I found it hard to judge it, because it was ultimately only "part 1". I didn't find anything captivating about Rey's story arc in the movie, and Finn was literally cut short. The movie ended on a kind-of cliffhanger, the only thing resolved was the plot taken from A New Hope.

So basically, the new stuff it does isn't developed very far, so really the only thing the movie has to offer that the old movies didn't, is better VFX, slightly changed designs of old iconic stuff, and a tiny smidge of new plot. While playing it safe made it avoid the heaps of criticism the prequels and it's own sequel got, there's also just little reason for me to not just watch A New Hope instead, other than the fact that I guess A New Hope doesn't matter anymore.

While ROTJ was a pretty fine ending, if you were to follow up on the state of the galaxy, and our old heroes trying to rebuild, there is potential, and I think TFA was just a big waste of it.

 

But it's character aren't better, by much. And Kylo sucks, so who cares.

 

I don't disagree with you on these two points.

But to me, there is a difference between the ST movies being bad movies, and the ST movies hurting the franchise.

If the ST movies were simply bad, mediocre, lacklustre or anything of the sort, I would have wasted 1% of the time that I wasted complaining about them.

And to me, destroying Luke's character and bringing back Palpatine are the two unforgivable atrocities that the sequels made.

DOTF would have completely eliminated one of these two, and partially fixed the other one.

 

Agreed. Nolan, Villeneuve, Cuaron, Lowery, Bigelow, Weir, Eggers, The Daniels, The Edwards-Gilroy Hybrid Human. These are my picks for future Star Wars directors.

Would DOTF have been better than TROS? Certainly possible. But that’s a really low bar as TROS is terrible and JJ is a terrible director.

That’s how much I don’t like Trevorrow. He’s also a terrible director and that’s a fact!

 

In retrospect I take the solid ending, because the ending we got was trash