Ahsoka Sabine

OWK versus Jango in AOTC?

 

That is what I am talking about...let's see that there are people out there who are not Force sensitive who can hold their own in a 1 on 1 fight.

 

Sabine is a much more interesting character to me now that she's functioning to subvert the audience's preconceived notions and biases about the Force.

Someone recently talked about how Kenobi was also a Jedi who was almost not accepted into the Order due to a low midichlorian count, and yet he turned out to be one of the most important, and true, Jedi of all time.

Usually, as a big baseball fan, my favorite players are not the so-called stars, but the guys who spend years in the minors to eventually come up in important games and help win playoff games.

Those are the people who motivate and inspire me the most. The Jedi lost sight of character with their ableism, and it resulted in Darth Vader.

Luckily, a rebellion made up of those with little Force ability helped to fix a galaxy the talented had ruined.

 

I've always found Sabine interesting, but yeah, your point is a good one.

 

I'm obviously biased (lol), but I really liked how she was developed in Rebels as well. Now as far as midichlorians, I agree relying on their count to determine didn't end well with Anakin so there's no reason to say she can't develop into one of some sort.

 

Yes it did. I don’t think m count means proficiency in the force. But it’s obvious that is what some Jedi thought. Both Obi wan and Jinn comparing him to Yoda’s count.

The reason Anakin didn’t and perhaps couldn’t make a good Jedi was he was far to attached. More attached than even a normal person should be. He was possessive. His M-count has nothing to do with that.

and yes thank you for the mandalorian for shortening it to M-count so I don’t have to butcher it every time

 

Yes, his M-count made him arrogant and more dangerous than the average Jedi.

He could have just been a bad Jedi due to his attachment issues, but instead his power led to the arrogance that he could stop people from dying.

His high ability is a very important part of his story and the downfall of the Jedi.

 

@godisawesome Previously, you've touched on plot threads in Rebels that weren't played out to their full potential (Mandalore and Thrawn, IIRC). This isn't ironclad, but I'm curious about your thoughts on whether Sabine's leadership prospects (suggested by Fenn Rau) are still on the table. It occurred to me just today that she's denied being a leader for Mandalore, as Ahsoka has denied being a Jedi. And there's a clear suggestion now that Ahsoka will work toward a point of making peace with her Jedi status (thus her 'Ahsoka the White' stage).

 

But he would have had that regardless of if he knew he had a high m-count or not.

 

Mandalorians were too tame in Mando season 3. It feels like Disney is part of the reason why they cannot portray them as they were meant to be, violent and aggressive soldier religion/culture. More as antagonist than protagonists. Sure we could have more moderate factions too and perhaps memory of her sister Satine and new mandalorians could explain why Bo-Katan is not as aggressive now as most mandos are, but the way how season 3 of mandalorian pictured mandalorians made them seem too tame and just generally conflicted with their previous portrayal too. Bo-Katan herself was villain when she was first introduced, henchman to Pre Vizla who was without doubt a cruel man, terrorist leader, murderer and fascistic dictator. Now she has become very tame hero which seems contradictory to her character and it's origins.

Same thing that happened with Boba Fett. Filoni's problem has IMO been writing villains. He doesn't seem to like developing them much and makes them either too weak and kills them away or turns them into heroes. Well on the other hand he handled Vader and Thrawn pretty well, but those are characters that others have created. He treats them with respect to original vision and I think Thrawn too will become some sort of hero eventually in Filoni's writing. I hope he doesn't but I afraid Filoni will do this, he likes Thrawn too much to let him die as villain. I hope I'm wrong and he is antagonist to the end. That would be better.

I would like to see competent villain who is never going to be hero putting up some real fight against heroes. But in Filoni's writing bad guys are either clearly incompetent (Grievous and separatist leades, Admiral Konstantine and other imperials, Moff Gideon more or less) or become heroes eventually (Kallus, Boba Fett, even Maul to certain degree was a tragic hero in his quest for revenge against the big bad master of his).

Okay as one exception Cad Bane is both pretty competent and clearly despicable person. I think Cad and Pre Vizla are the best bad guys Filoni has mostly written (with input from Lucas no doubt). He respects characters George Lucas and Timothy Zahn have created though, but his own characters are not good bad guys. He writes good heroes and gray characters like Hondo and Embo, but his villains lack an edge or he starts to like them so much he writes redemption for them. Like in case of Asajj Ventress too. Even though Katie Lucas was partially responsible for that story really. And I did like her overall story though. Same with Dooku in Tales of the Jedi I liked how Dooku is many ways hero who lost his way and went too far to become a villain instead. This too was of course Lucas' own invention too and not Filoni's really.

I have no idea what Filoni is now doing with Sabine though. It feels like he don't know himself at this point. Hopefully I'm wrong. But her becoming a jedi without the Force makes absolutely no sense to me. It feels weird and forced. I wonder if Disney forced him to write a young female jedi as protagonist no matter what, but he wanted to use Sabine so he had to do this charade to please bosses at Disney or something. Whatever it feels unnatural direction to go with her.

 

The airbrushed Mandos of S3 was one of the most disappointing things to come out of Star Wars since TROS, in my view. Major unfulfilled potential.

 

I disagree in part. In Bo we see a character who started as a villain during the Clone Wars, but one who has maybe since the Purge has grown. Also, the group who used to follow Bo aren't depicted as good. In the case of Maul, during that last season of Rebels he's still bad. He isn't in any way likable and I didn't feel his dying words absolved him. I do agree, I hope he maintains Thrawn as a villain though.

 

Well yes Bo as character could use a bit more well... character. We know some of her background but how she became part of organization that tried to murder her sister and what she thinks about Mandalore and what mandalorians should be. We haven't been revealed much of all that. She has potential to become more interesting character. I don't hate it when villain becomes hero through well-written character development. Kallus was my favorite Rebels character even though his redemption too was a bit abrupt.

About Maul I agree that he really didn't get redemption, but he also isn't character created by Filoni. And it was Lucas' own decision to bring him back and Filoni had to go along with it. I think Maul's story was pretty good after he came back though. Didn't like his spider incarnation or Morley though. But his revenge on Obi-Wan and attempt to get revenge on Sidious was pretty good stuff all in all.

Sabine however had character already and now it seems like they try to rewrite her as jedi that doesn't feel right. I hope they find a way to make it work better for her. She cannot be traditional jedi maybe, but I dunno. Let's watch and see how it develops.

 

But should it come down to "all Mandalorians are warriors" anymore than "all Rodians are bounty hunters" or :"all Correlians are devil may care pilots who don't care about odds"?

While their may have been a long tradition of great warriors among the Mandalorians I am sure there were scholars, artists, farmers, businessmen, etc...

I do agree on the lack of depth into Mando culture in Mando S3 though. Personally I think it needed to be more than just CoTW and the Mercenary Fleet coming together to explore the possibility of restoring Mandalore. I would have loved see maybe 5-7 groups coming together. CoTW and the Merc Fleet.....but also Fenn Rau and the Protectors, Clan Wren and maybe a couple other clans, a group of Mandolorian nomads who have been wandering since the Purge and saved some of Mandalore's cultural history in the form of art, books, records....and they are led by Korkie and his friends.

This could have been a way to explore Mandalorian culture as a whole and not just as "they are great warriors."

 

Well it is established that mandalorians are more of religion than ethnicity. So not all people from mandalore are warriors, but all mandalorians who wear armor should be warriors since well that's why they wear armor. New mandalorians were example of another extreme. They should come together as people with warriors and non-warrior mandalorians in working society. But it always seems to come down to civil war as before. Tragic people really. But I meant that those mandalorian warriors were a bit too tame in mandalorian season 3 I mean. I think it's okay to have different factions and there should've been more of them I agree on that. Battle for Mandalore was all too small also. It should've been one entire season nothing but that.

 

So far it seems to me that Sabine is going to be Tarre Vizsla 2.0.

 

I really wanted the Mandos to turn into complicated main antagonists in the post-ST world (a revanchist Mando Empire, essentially), but I don’t think that’s the direction they’re taking.

 

Agree. More likely that it is going to be something like in the late EU with Mandalorians being a powerful neutral faction with strong economy, but still occasionally acting as mercenaries.

 

I agree. Season 3 seemed to dumb down mandalorians to religion about who can wear helmet and for how long and all other issues were pretty much ignored. It would've been more interesting to see a lot of different factions with different traditions. Not just helmet always on and helmet sometimes off factions... They used almost one entire episode on Coruscant focusing on Doctor Pershing, while I liked that episode it didn't belong into Mandalorian really. Then they wasted one episode with rescuing that mando kid from vulture, that was a boring episode and short one too. And that one episode with battle droids was so poorly written it was like the worst TCW episodes all over again but in live-action. While it was interesting to see someone still supporting separatist ideas, but story didn't make much sense there. It was kinda fun to see battle droids again though.

Simplifying complex things like cultures is what makes them uninteresting and I agree that mandalorian season 3 really did a lot of that which is a shame since mandalorian culture could've been much more interesting than just about when to use helmet or go to bath with mythosaur...

Funnily Bo-Katan is like Boba Fett all over again. Boba was also about to be whitewashed in his own show, but instead of making him hero, he became incompetent crybaby who wants to be an honorable criminal lord. LOL... That is just not going to work. Bo-Katan had potential to be very interesting character, but she really was whitewashed too much in Rebels and in Mandalorian.

I agree that they definitely shouldn't portray all mandos as good guys. So much interesting gray area could be explored with these characters, but they seem to want to keep everything morally black and white. Good that we have Andor at least.

 

Yeah. I’m still not over Mando S3’s failures, but Ahsoka is helping.

 

Did Sabine make the biggest mistake of any character in Star Wars aside from Anakin? He still holds that crown.