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Ahsoka Ahsoka Episode 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Oct 2, 2023.

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Grade the Episode

Poll closed Oct 18, 2023.
  1. 10

    18.4%
  2. 9

    19.1%
  3. 8

    13.2%
  4. 7

    19.9%
  5. 6

    10.3%
  6. 5

    5.1%
  7. 4

    2.9%
  8. 3

    2.9%
  9. 2

    3.7%
  10. 1

    4.4%
  1. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Anecdotally, I do think its bad that these stories are catering to fewer and fewer people. You may not "need" to watch Rebels or Clone Wars to understand this, but at minimum without watching them theres just absolutely no way you will care about Thrawn or Ezra.
     
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  2. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Why?

    I've never seen Rebels and I still care enough. The show is more contained that some people think. Yes, it has an 'unseen' backstory. So did A New Hope.
     
  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    In a well told story, if the characters care, the viewer will too.
     
  4. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Sounds like some out grown these movies and tv shows :p
     
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  5. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
  6. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2013
    The ANH comparison is just not a fair comparison. The key relationships that matter in that movie (Luke/Han, Luke/Han/Leia, Obi-Wan/Luke) are all originated and developed over the course of that film.

    Whether or not you have seen Rebels, the Ahsoka/Sabine relationship was nowhere to be found in previous material, and this show does not do nearly enough to show us that those two actually have a history and care about each other. It would make for a much better story to have the show be about Ahsoka attempting to train Sabine so they can go after Ezra, the purge of Mandalore happens, and this leads Ahsoka to break off Sabine's training, worrying she will create another Vader. This is ostensibly the setup for what we later see in Ahsoka. All of this is doled out extremely slowly through most Huyang. Ahsoka and Sabine do not openly discuss this with anyone or with each other. It is simply bad writing.

    If the show worked like:

    Season 1: All of this backstory, ends with purge of Mandalore and Ahsoka leaving Sabine
    Season 2: characters journey on their own, Sabine goes darker, Ahsoka realizes she must finish Sabine's training
    Season 3: Basically this season of Ahsoka.

    All of this would be an actual relationship with character arcs that make sense and we can follow.

    Instead, just like the sequels, they just rushed right past all of the ACTUALLY INTERESTING part of the story, and fast forwarded to the stuff that Filoni THINKS is interesting but only actually would function with the proper buildup.

    It would be like if you started TCW with the Ahsoka leaves the order arc. That story works because we have spent 5 seasons on Anakin and Ahsoka's relationship. If you started the show with that arc though, and just expected the audience to accept that Anakin has a padawan, him and Ahsoka have this deep bond, etc, it just would be much less compelling.
     
  7. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Fiendish Fanfic & SWTV Manager, Tech Admin star 6 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    I only watched a few episodes of Rebels so far and read some books with Thrawn in it, and I was able to care about Thrawn and Ezra.

    I think Thrawn works about as well as a villain as the Empire as a whole does. Yes, he could be considered overpowered and what not, but so was the Empire in the OT, and most of us accepted that.

    I think for viewers that haven't seen most of Rebels, we can still care about Sabine's quest to find Ezra because it's very clearly stated in the narrative that they are friends, and we see in Episode 1 multiple examples of how much she misses him. Honestly, Sabine is given a better motivation and incentive to care about finding Ezra in Ahsoka than Luke is given to care about helping Leia in ANH. Luke and Leia aren't friends initially. They don't know they are family. He just thinks she is kind of good-looking the first time he sees the message of her asking Obi-Wan to help her. That's it. That is their connection. But it worked for most people watching the OT. So I think sometimes people judge new Star Wars content like Ahsoka by a harsher standard than they would the OT. Which is their prerogative, but I think should be acknowledged to be happening.

    I did find the acting of the live action version of Ezra to be a bit "flat" compared to the animated version of him (same with Sabine at times, to be honest), so in that sense me watching even a few episodes of Rebels probably made me judge the live action versions of Ezra and Sabine harder than I would have otherwise. If these live action versions were the only renditions of these characters I had known, I don't know that their performances would have rang so "flat" to me at times.

    For me, as someone who has only seen very limited amounts of the animated Star Wars shows, I'd say the biggest issue that I encountered came in the finale when I didn't even realize that there were these references to the Mortis arc in the statues and the bird that looked like Hedwig. These were supposed to have major significance and symbolism in the ending episode, but anyone not familiar with the Mortis arc will be in the dark on that. So, for example, Baylan's ending for viewers who haven't seen the Mortis arc will just be him standing staring around a landscape with some cool looking statues that the viewer has no idea what they mean or symbolize. It will feel like a big nothing burger of an ending for this villain who had an awesome buildup and seemed to have the potential for complex, interesting motivations throughout the show. Basically, it will register as a big old disappointment. That was how it felt to me. Along with Shin Hati's ending. It felt like Shin Hati and Baylan were being set up to have a really cool ending by episode 6, and then that faded into disappointing nothingness for me in the last two episodes. Even if Baylan had included some backstory on the Mortis gods to give an overview to viewers like me not caught up on all the animated shows, it would have been helpful. Especially since Baylan isn't shy about sharing lore and legends with Shin Hati. So there was the opportunity to do so. It just wasn't used.

    I do think someone on the creative team could have asked, "Hey, how will the ending of our two awesome new villains look to anyone who has not seen the Mortis arc of the Clone Wars? And is there any way we can clue that part of the audience in on the Mortis backstory and symbolism if it is going to be a key part of our finale?"

    Up until the finale, though, I felt like I could follow and enjoy Ahsoka without being extremely well-versed in the animated shows. Which is why it threw me for a bit of a loop to have the finale all the sudden rely on so much viewer knowledge of the Mortis arc for Baylan's ending to have any significance at all (or the appearance of the Hedwig like bird to matter at all).

    The best comparison within Star Wars that I can draw is to that feeling I had when I watched the Solo movie in theaters. All throughout, that movie pretty much makes sense if you have only seen the main Star Wars films and are a member of the general audience. Then, out of the blue, the ending features an appearance of Maul. The inexplicable arrival on screen of a dude who as far as anyone who had not seen the Clone Wars knows was chopped in half at the end of TPM. It was just like, all the sudden, for the ending, my level of assumed prior knowledge was expected to leap upward when before that my level of required prior knowledge seemed to have been expected to be pretty limited.

    I don't think it was quite as egregious as that example, and I still rated this episode a 9 out of 10, but I do think that the ending either should have relied on less prior knowledge of the Mortis arc or have made some effort to fill viewers not familiar with the Mortis arc on the Mortis gods and whatnot.
     
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  8. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    This would have worked better imo
     
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  9. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    If A New Hope was released in 2023, we would never hear the end of it.

    • Why do we care about Kenobi? He has less than half an hour of screen time and we learn nothing about his past.
    • Why did they have Chewbacca with them? He serves nothing in the story. He's just there to sell toys.
    • In order to understand the plot, the viewer must have watched the entirety of the Clone Wars animated show, otherwise they shouldn't care about these Rebels.
    • How do these lightsabers work? Laser doesn't work like that. And if it was plasma, it should burn everything around it. This makes no sense. Such bad writing.
    • What does Han owe Jabba the Hutt? Why is Jabba after him? And what happened with Greedo? If they don't answer these questions then people cannot be invested in the plot and they can't feel anything about Han Solo, his character is not developed at all.
     
  10. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I think simply having one flashback episode that covered what Huyang info dumped to Ezra in the finale would've gone a long way to help the Sabine/Ahsoka story. It's hilarious that we got a COMPLETELY out of the blue Dr. Pershing episode in Mandalorian season three but didn't get a flashback episode reveling Sabine and Ahsoka's falling out.

    On a side note what was the point of that Dr. Pershing episode? I can't remember if it actually tied into anything in the rest of Mando season three. I don't think it did.
     
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  11. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    It was tha Motel 6 sign...they kept the light on for him.
     
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  12. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Wow. Can you write season 2???
     
  13. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Of course its a fair comparison. Because just as we all hadn't seen the PT, or Anakin or Young Obi-wan, or the NR, or the Jedi Order as we were watching ANH, I too haven't seen what took place in Rebels, or Younger Ezra, etc.

    You're original point is still incorrect. You don't need to see Rebels in order to care for the characters in this show.
     
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  14. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Very likely, but again it's very loose. even if Wayland is used for spartii cloning.

    I wonder if they do use spartii cloning or cloning in general will they still use Jango DNA? If not who? most likely a random.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  15. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Funny that if Luke didn't think his sister was hot he might not have saved her and the galaxy would've been doomed!
     
  16. Master Jedi Fixxxer

    Master Jedi Fixxxer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    So what you're saying is that the galaxy owes its salvation to traditional family values from Alabama
     
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  17. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    There's a lesson to be learned there, for sure.
     
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  18. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Agree on this...that should have been more dynamic. Charge across the open field under turbolaser fire and then just stand there when they get in... They should have kept moving pushing into the temple and through any resistance.
     
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  19. Darth Droid

    Darth Droid Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2013
    My point is that key relationships in ANH do not require any extensive backstory for the audience to become invested in them.

    The key relationships of the Ahsoka show (Ahsoka/Sabine, Ahsoka/Anakin, and Sabine/Ezra) ALL are based not on anything shown on this show, but on previous shows and stories. In the case of the most important relationship (Ahsoka/Sabine) it's even worse because the emotional investment we are meant to have in it is established only in backstory we aren't given until quite late into the series.

    This is my fundamental problem.

    I mean this is taking what I'm trying to say and distorting it to questions that do not matter to the core relationships/plot of the story. The Clone Wars has absolutely nothing to do with the conflict in ANH, that Obi-Wan and Anakin fought in it is simply exposition establishing that Obi-Wan knew Luke's father. That is all that matters for the ANH story.

    Ahsoka and Anakin's relationship is clearly so important to the Ahsoka story. The comparison that would make more sense would be if Yoda and Obi-Wan's relationship was somehow central to the story of the OT. It isn't, and their deep relationship is not something we need to see explored or explained because it doesn't matter. But in Ahsoka ostensibly her entire arc is about forgiving Anakin(?), or understanding she won't become Anakin, or that Sabine won't, etc. In truth I found this point also super muddled, but it's clear her arc had something to do with resolving her feelings about him. But their relationship and her feelings about it are things that only matter to audiences who know their backstory.

    Ahsoka leans way too heavily on TCW and Rebels to carry its emotional baggage. In the case of Sabine/Ahsoka, it leans on nothing at all and just expects the audience to fill in the blanks. Poor storytelling. ANH is not like this, and to say that it is just a misreading of the two stories.
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge 7x Wacky Wednesday winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Yeah, that moment was some of the worst "tactics" in the whole series. When your opponents have long range weapons and you're limited to short range weapons, you don't just stand there at long range and let them shoot you. You maneuver as quickly as possible into your own fighting range and fight the battle your way, not theirs. That made them look both dumb and inexperienced, and they're not supposed to be either.
     
  21. KamNale

    KamNale Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Well, Ahsoka is over for now. I have to say that the series was fine for me. I liked the lore-building and Peridea is a unique world which I like. However, I found some scenes to be dull of any emotion or high stakes. For this finale, I was not worried about the bombardment because I knew none of them were going to die. The zombie troopers were cool, but the fight against them was stiff. I need more urgency in this. Perhaps Dave should stick to animation.

    For the episode 6/10, overall 7/10
     
  22. Fin McCool

    Fin McCool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    The way we, as an audience, process the gaps in stuff is so different now than back then. It's gone from "use one's own imagination" to "wait for the next installment of [content] and see how it reconciles with [other content]."
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  23. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think it does enough for itself to be good with new watchers- thought it's not quite as strong as ANH in total in regards to characters, possibly as a result of being one part of a larger narrative and Filoni not having a writing room while also seeming a bit skittish about more exposition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
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  24. Siphonophore

    Siphonophore Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2003
    "That's no mountain..... it's The Death Pyramid."

    Maybe the pyramid is a weapon that's capable of opening a fissure between realms, and the flashing red beam is simply the pilot light that always burns between full ignitions. We haven't seen an unmasked nomad warrior, and the hermit crab people perhaps adopted their mobile shells to shield themselves whenever the pyramid's beam was fully activated. If Baylan is going on his quest unmasked, he could perhaps undergo a physical transformation from the exposure. Maybe spirits from the other realm ravage Peridea, particularly when a Purrgil dies, and the Purrgil's energy is absorbed and consumed by the pyramid and the spirits.... a symbiotic relationship.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
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  25. Samuel Vimes

    Samuel Vimes Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Well consider this, assume that TCW did not exist, nor Rebels, nor Mando, nor Book of Boba Fett.
    The only thing that exists are the nine SW films. If they decided to make Ashoka, do you think they would write it like this? Thrawn, Ezra, Sabine, Ashoka all of them without some backstory of who they were?

    If not, then it shows that the comparison to ANH is not fair.
    Because that film was written where NO SW existed. Nothing. It had to stand on it's own.
    Unlike now, an audience member that is curious, can either watch Rebels or TCW. Or they can Google it.

    Not saying the Ashoka show does not work, I could follow it but a bunch of things did not resonate as strongly as I think the writer intended.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface