Discussion Potential Threats/Antagonists For New Films

Like the Yuuzhan Vong or the Grysk? Or something even darker?
I have always liked the idea of the True Sith hiding out in the Unknown Regions. Something similar to Chris Avellone's plans for KOTOR 3, Sith who has risen to become dark apocalyptic entities.

 

The ever-escalating demonic threats yield diminishing returns. Which is why I think the future of Star Wars villainy is in more human and politically complex threats, not even bigger Dark Lords and their minions.

 

Well that's one of the reasons why I think Lucas may have explored the idea that the Whills themselves were potential antagonists in some ST. Not necessarily evil dark siders, because they're certainly not that. Just something natural that is in its own way against what the hero, or humanity, or life, needs or thinks they need. And without diving into the outcome of that, that internal battle may have been at the heart of the drama that Luke or another Skywalker faces, and on the other side comes true enlightenment.

I mean what's the bigger antagonist that the dark side? That's the next step up? What's the deeper level of new understanding? Meeting god. Or the source of it all.

The OT (in a way) dealt more with the living force. The PT and Qui-gon set this idea up in the first few minutes of TPM. That staying in present moment and no losing sight of things is supremely important. How staying true to your heart, and focusing on that, can fulfill your destiny or resist the dark side. But perhaps Lucas' ST could have explored new ways of understanding the cosmic force as well The big picture.

Who knows.

A big part of myth and religion is the notion of rebelling against god. There are countless myths where one god, or demi-god, stands against the other gods to help humanity earn freedom, or knowledge, or enlightenment.

 

Yeah but I think that gets too transcendental for action adventure drama, unless they are willing to go very weird (and they’re not).

So I think it’s a mistake to try to go bigger and more cosmic with threats. Becomes like a villain arms race, and you end up with giant purple gods that can end existence, like Thanos, which I don’t find compelling. Best to avoid this escalating level of comic book cartoonishness.

The way to go is not bigger, but rather, more complex. And different. Types of political and military threats we haven’t seen before, etc. And ones that make us confront more challenging questions.

 

I think Lucas would have gone a little weird. DLFL definitely will not. And there's nothing more challenging than challenging the gods. lol

In an amusing way, Lucas wanted to go microbial, right? Explore the deeper meanings of who's behind the Force. The biggest authority in the universe, isn't some bigger dark side threat. It's the smallest organism that actually exists. Which is completely the opposite of TFA, where everything is presented as "just bigger = badder'.

It's really diving into who we are and what we believe. And so the piddly dark side - which Luke resisted and overcame n ROTJ - is no longer really above him any longer. In a spiritual sense, its no longer his threat. He leveled up. He's defeated that part of him. It doesn't have authority over him. So what's actually left? Certainly not a 9 foot tall Emperor 2.0 and Empire 2.0 because that's just the physical. It would be the force itself. What's at the heart of what's controlling all the events in the galaxy. After all, devil/evil rebelled against gods authority, (in some myths presented to help humanity) but they are not above god. god is still supreme in that hierarchy. So god is the next level up, or...down. lol.

And so when I say cosmic side of the force, I don't mean a physically bigger threat. I mean the cosmic. Time. Space. Gods. Destiny. The bigger picture of understanding itself. All done in the background to pew pew pew and space battles, and action adventure pulpiness.

But yes, that's too deep for DLFL. There's no way any of them are thinking about that. That's why JJ eagerly backflipped away from Lucas' treatments I bet. Because they got weird. Too weird for a corporate-director like JJ, who knows what will actually make a couple billion dollars.

So what does that mean for a future threat? I think they will stay with the physical. That's easier to envision. It might be dramatic as hell. It might be very personal. But I don't necessarily think it'll ever go deeper than that.

 

Did it come across that way? That wasn't my intention or my thinking. This wouldn't be a noble "save the galaxy' thing. Just a bigger (perhaps) personal threat to Palpatine (in addition to the galaxy) and his rule/power.

 

But also, his girlfriend was mean to him.

 

Something like the Vong would be interesting, in the sense of having a faction with a fully fleshed out culture and belief system that is alien to and clashes with the Republic’s and the Jedi.

 

I get that and doesnt't necessarily disagree. It's just that I personally love demonic threats. If they go that route then it must be some kind of finale for the post- ST.

 

That's a sentence that would be perfect for a yearbook quote or something.

 

"War of the Five Jedi Republics" has a nice, evocative ring to it.

The galaxy is split, but not some Republic versus Empire cold war. Instead there are five republics, each hoping to become the galactic republic and impose their version of what an ideal republic should be... one more like a confederation/alliance/UN but it therefore also doesn't guarantee democracy or strong sentient rights or living standards for its member-states, one more like the high republic, one more imperial and authoritarian but without the sith/corporate/corrupt influences, etc.
And each having a different relationship with their Jedi... one republic has a Jedi order most similar to the PT Jedi, another republic has enlightened Jedi aristocrats rule as senators and chancellors directly more like the old Fel Empire but with a Jedi Imperial Senate (and where Jedi not only are allowed children but it's encouraged, with Jedi family dynasties not too dissimilar from the houses of Dune or Games of Thrones), one where there's a Republic but a separate and independent Jedi that's just another ally and they sometimes don't agree or support one another, etc.

And then during the bickering (being Jedi and being Republics, they prefer negotiation over all-out war), they're invaded, which causes them to band together, but the friction of whose style of government/Jedi will win after defeating the temporary common enemy will remain on top of everyone's mind. But the invaders provide the generic action sequences, compared to the real political/international intrigue between the Five Jedi Republics that form the real conflict and tensions. And each faction could win its own group of the fans who think they should win, but it's clear to all fans that none of them are clearly the "good guys" or the "bad guys" - all have at least some good points, and all have mistakes and points against them. we just hope they'll learn to get along and that the invader mooks or stupid political misunderstandings don't kill too many of them.

 

Something I wrote yesterday in the Literature forum that could go here too:

The point of the Fel Empire was to show how imperialism and tyranny is still flawed and worse than a democracy (even with democracy's flaws too). It was showing more of the seduction of the idea of "empire," just like it was similarly showing more seduction with the ideas of the Sith with their "One Sith" ideology and the idea of the dark side in general with Cade's unique healing ability... but it was all to refute it, and show the good guys still have it closer to the truth as long as they're also aware of their flaws.

Dark Side Healing -
The question it posed: why is using the dark side always bad, when it literally heals and saves people? (what Palpatine promised Anakin if it has actually been real and available for him to use on Padme/Shmi/etc.)
The answer it gave through the storytelling: there actually is a way to do this that's lightside, the dark path was just quicker and easier to stumble upon, and the darker way is wrong because it's about dominating your will and overcoming others, while the light-side way of healing is through harmony in the Force and not trying to impose your will by force or for self-centered reasons

One Sith -
The question it posed: could the Sith be better, if they were founded in an ideology of One Sith, all working together in harmony as a society, and avoid the treachery encouraged by the rule of two and older Sith ideas?
The answer it gave through storytelling: No. Dark side is still based on greed, even if people are tricked into it being well-meaning, and once you let your emotions rule you, you can lose control and it all fall apart.

Fel Empire -
The question is posed: can there be a good Empire? One with their own light-side Jedi, sworn to it like the old Jedi swore to the Republic? With the Imperial Dynasty itself being Jedi? And not only Jedi, but Skywalker descendants? That try to spread through peace, diplomacy, and humanitarian missions?
The answer it gave through storytelling: It's still easily corrupted. Even in such an Empire, there are checks on an Emperor's power, like the Moffs who can overrule him, and the Emperor can still be tricked or misled. Or overthrown in a coup by someone less benevolent. And when the Emperor tried to seize more absolute control while winning back his throne, so he no longer has checks like the Moffs or anyone else, it was only by mere luck that one of his bodyguards opposed him when he did truly become corrupted, and that corruption is always a chance.​

 

For the new films, who would be the most interesting villains who are NOT darksiders, warlords, imperials, or gangsters?

 

That's hard since most villains in the franchise fit into at least one of those categories lol

but maybe a politician or bureaucrat who's plotting to coup the republic/empire? think palpatine minus the darkside

 

I think other light side users/former Jedi would make for interesting antagonists.

I did find the concept of the Imperial Knights of the Fel Empire to be interesting on paper. Light side force users that swore to protect their Emperor instead of the Senate or democracy, so long as this Emperor did not fall to the dark.

A group of antagonists in this style could offer an interesting juxtaposition to a Jedi Order that Rey is trying to form. Rey may be trying to form an order that is devoted to the average person, traveling around the galaxy to help those in need regardless of political situations.

While these antagonist Jedi swear allegiance to a government figure head, still claiming to serve the light but being beholden to the orders of a single person. Almost like a more rigid version of the prequel Jedi, who similarly served the light by serving the Senate, often times at the cost of not helping those not in Republic space (or even in the core worlds). These antagonist Jedi would be and extreme version of this, serving only the head of the post-ST/ New Republic government. An enlightened dictatorship who believes they know best and have an order of "Jedi" to enforce it.

Maybe Rey accepts that status quo and goes off to do her own thing with a more spiritual version of the Jedi, but ultimately comes into conflict with them. Maybe Rey tries to mediate the end of a conflict but the quasi-Jedi and the govt they serve would rather the war continue to better serve their political interests. The conflict at the heart of the movie could then be less good vs evil and more an analysis of what it means to be a Jedi.

These Jedi could be made up of elderly Order 66 survivors and bokken Jedi from the dark times. They may feel they know best how to reform and carry the Jedi tradition moving forward, but don't realize their trauma and gatekeeping is preventing the overall generational trauma of the Jedi Order from healing. The oppressed become the oppressor, even if they don't realize it.

 

Little rascals with slingshots and treehouses.

 

Its no time for mega cooperations without Sith influence. Trade Federation, Banking clan and such. They hate Jedi for meddling in their businesses..

 

somehow the trade federation returned

 

First thing I think of is an extragalactic threat, but then I think of the Vong and instantly decide against it.

Possibly a new force order we've never heard of. Maybe force users who thought something like the Gray Jedi idea was feasible and we see the damaging repercussions of it?

 

They work as part time antagonist when you look at the PT movies as a whole. They should never have been the opening act of TPM though. That could have been better for a episode of the Clone Wars. Instead they should have established the Sith and relationship between Maul and his Master much earlier on. Especially have Darth Maul much more at the centre. Anyway…

I think that some sort of ancient hidden Force, deeply rooted in traditional Star Wars / Tolkien lore/ mythology would work best. Something like Sauron. Which obviously, by the look of it, becomes very Sith again. Going backwards in time - that works. For future films and stories, with the Rey film coming up first - i am not sure. Maybe some sort of highly intelligent AI tool. More sci-fi than fantasy sort of. If AI, can take over the humans / aliens, lead by something ( a robot) that once was created by a human - but then becomes a wild and dangerous Master, when the algoritme goes crazy. Creates an army of course. It smells like clone army i guess, but could work.

 

Droid Revolution and Rey puts down the droid Rebellion

 

I mean, everything has already been done i feel. If a «droid takeover» was to happen, at least do not make him/ her / them - one of Reys jedi pupils, because then its just another repeat of Jedi betrays Master sort of story.

The invasion from antoher galaxy idea could work, but i don`t like the Vong concept. Or the design.