ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

They don’t fit into the Rule of Two doctrine because they aren’t Sith. JJ Abrams was clear about this in several
Interviews.

 

Its Adam Driver Birthday today..

 

Happy bday to our wide boy

 

Adam Driver to return to SNL next week! If we don't get Abraham Parnassus hopefully we can get Kylo Undercover Boss return. Undercover Boss 1 is set before Force Awakens and Skit 2 is set after Last Jedi, we need a TRoS Kylo Undercover Boss to complete the cycle! (either as Palpatine underling or Ben Force Ghost)

In other news, Driver still taking flack for killing Han Solo.

“Somebody reminds me about that every day.”

After Wallace responded, “Are you serious?,” Driver said, “Not every day, but yeah. It used to be more but now it’s probably once a month someone will let me know that I killed Han Solo.”

 

This isn't a hugely known Driver SNL skit but it's freaking gold

 

Driver has given another interview about the behind-the-scenes process behind his character, Kylo Ren. Redemption was never on the menu as far as he knew for the character, it was a late(r) addition.

Adam Driver: “I did, yeah. And I had an overall arc that in mind that [JJ Abrams] wanted to do. His idea was that [Kylo’s] journey was the opposite journey of Vader, where Vader starts the most confident and the most committed to the dark side. And then by the last movie, he’s the most vulnerable and weak. He wanted to start with the opposite. This character was the most confused and vulnerable, and by the end of the three movies, he would be the most committed to the dark side. I tried to keep that arc in mind, regardless if that wound up not being the journey anyway, because it changed while shooting. But I was still focused on that.” “With Rian, he took it in a different direction, but it still tracked with the character. And then the last one, it changed into being, you know, about them and the dyad, and things like that. And evolving into Ben Solo. That was never a part of it. He was Ben Solo from the beginning but there was never a version where we’d see Ben Solo when I first signed up for it.” (December 12, 2023)

 

You mean this one on the Rich Eisen Show, right ?

 

Nobody should be shocked. It has been obvious for years now that there was no plan. At this point there is actual confirmation from multiple actors and people who worked on the sequels that there was no plan. Quite sad really. Oh well.

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/202...-was-planned-that-was-never-a-part-of-it.html

 

So their "plan" really was to trash the OT 3 and make the only child of the three of them into an unredeemable dark lord. Not that I wanted Kylo's redemption after TFA but seriously, that was their plan. Did they not think for ten seconds that they were setting a valuable IP on fire for short term gain? I would love to hear some tape of the meetings around this. There is a book to be written about the insanity of this - I mean, Iger's self-serving "well, we never promised George anything" - really, you're selling that as you, JJ et al were GENIUSES because you didn't think through one decision you made?

Bravo, Disney LFL. I'm so glad your hotel closed. I enjoyed watching you set that money on fire. Good luck with that Rey film. You're gonna need it.

 

It’s clear that TFA was very much thinking about the OT and not the PT. Because if they did, they would see that Anakin already did this idea. Anakin was very much that character, but here it was always about Vader

in the long run though, I don’t think you could have the son of Han and Leia be irredeemable. That wouldn’t have made anything better. Even if you look at it like haha **** you Ben!. It makes nothing better because Ben is basically the complete triangle or result of Han and Leia’s love story. And as with life, the offspring’s are your legacy whether you like it or not.

well no he doesn’t say inorganic, he just says that wasn’t the idea presented to him in TFA. But then that’s just how these films work. Things changed. Lucas also made a dozen changes from each of his movies. Often he had ideas that went a different direction. Hamill may have said oh cool so after Empire the next film will be about me seeking out a lost sister? And George was like yeaaaah… then changed that to just make it Leia. But hey that happens. Does it sound like Driver probably liked the idea of being the opposite Vader full villain approach? Yes it does. Was it actually the best approach? Probably not. But then TFA was a very different time when it comes to trying to translate Star Wars. That’s also very noticeable with TROS as that feels less like a OT remake as TFA did and more like an actual legacy sequel.

 

Its not surprising but still... annoying to hear it so directly stated, even after all these years. Bad enough the vague arc they had for Kylo was to turn out worse than Vader (not that I blame Driver for it, he did the best he could with the material, not like he was in charge) but it still boggles the mind how oblivious Disney-Lucasfilm were/are. Any halfway decent Star Wars stories we've gotten since the buyout really have been happy accidents despite Disney's mismanagement since there's clearly no competence to be found there.

Even aside from their preference for Kylo as the main character (and how his crimes didn't bother Disney-Lucasfilm or his fans much, they're happy to throw everyone else under the bus for his sake), its crazy that they didn't realize until after Trevorrow's draft that if Kylo gets his automatic redemption, they still need someone to be the final boss of their farce. None of them had any idea how to construct a basic story (well, Johnson didn't care to and Abrams thought he only had to bother with TFA and its still mostly just a paycheck to him). Hence TRoS' really rushed production.

Not that taking more time on it would have helped much, it was just another sign of how little management cared about quality.

 

Where has it every been stated TROS was a rushed production? It’s fairly clear from the amount of time they had to have various different versions of the script that it wasn’t a rushed production. It had nothing to do with being a rushed production. If anything, it had more to do with the fact they knew what they had to do with the formula for what they wanted to be the final film of the saga but struggled to know the best way to get there.

that’s kinda where people get hung up about palpatine coming back but fail to realise he does infact tie all the movies together by his menace.

 

While I still believe that RJ did most of the heavy lifting when it comes to Rey and Kylo's relationship, learning from AD that the redemption arc wasn't part of the plan when he signed up to play Kylo Ren is surprising to say the least. I could understand if he talked about the time before they decided the Jedi Killer character was Han and Leia's son, but it's weird to think that after watching TFA. If a redemption arc wasn't the plan, then what was the point of Han's sacrifice and having Leia say she wanted her son back? Why didn't JJ/CT stick with Trevorrow's draft when it comes to Kylo's character?

 

Well even in the Trevorrow draft he was gonna be Redeemed to a point, I think it was after hearing Leia’s voice through the force in that draft. and I think that’s because even if there was a desire to keep going with him as a villain, it’s really complicated unless you totally forget he is the son of Han and Leia. In which case why make him the son of Han and Leia if there is no emotional connection there? So it’s like that connection has to become last minute in order to make him being a full villain work, but then also remembering you need to acknowledge that connection because you made it a thing when you made him Ben Solo.

 

The whole thing about adam driver being well known before being cast is weird. Because you can bring up that he was in a show alot of people watched, but I didnt and i had no idea who adam driver was. And i know alot of people who did not know who he was either. Is he an attractive guy? Sure. Are the rest of the cast ugly in comparison? Nope.

I did not know who any of the cast were. Now because of Star Wars i know who they all are.

 

Anyway just read Adam said Kylo was not supposed to be redeemed originally and I was reading so many people commenting about how he was too evil to be redeemed when Vader is arguably way worse. Vader was an evil POS for 26 years AOTC onward Kylo? Kylo was only evil for like 7 years.

people suck ass at math

 

None of this would have been an issue if they hadn't tried centering him as a hero after TFA and if they had just made Rey a god damn Skywalker regardless of how "expected" that was or if it stood in the way of shipping her with Kylo.

Just because he would be a worse and worse villain as the trilogy went on doesn't mean he just becomes one-dimensional and dies like a dastardly cartoon bad guy, you can still give him depth even as he goes darker and darker, especially if he feels like gaining power is his only choice and him trying to connect with Rey was his twisted way of trying to "protect" his newly-found sister/cousin where his parents and his uncle failed. Maybe he lives, maybe he dies, but either way there's still a blood Skywalker left over to make the story not feel hollow.

Lucasfilm twisted themselves into knots trying to avoid one of the few things they actually had a loose plan for and made an even bigger mess out of something that could've at least been passable.

I refuse to believe that Rey was never a blood Skywalker at any point in the ST's development, that's the last big lie that needs to be debunked and we'll finally have the full truth regarding the Skywalkers. All that would be left is the truth about Finn.