Saga Yoda's speech patterns

While I'm aware that the intent was to make Yoda's speech patterns sound like Old English, I do have one question. Why do so many people who quote him put comas in his speech? I know it's like backwards speech. But he will say things that, while backwards, are grammatically correct according to older forms of English in the Original Trilogy. By contrast, in the Prequels, what he says is often grammatically incorrect. Take Yoda's command about a "perimeter" in AOTC and compare that with some of the better written lines from him in the Classic Trilogy. I'm not bashing the prequels. I love them. But it's pretty obvious that Yoda's lines are better written in the CT compared to the PT. George Lucas is good with philosophy, ya know, and the psychology of people like Anakin and Palpatine. Wasn't necessarily good with dialogue, but I ain't here to beat a dead horse.

Anyhow, if someone could explain if comas are needed in his speech patterns, I think we should figure it out. I usually will just write out what he said. For example, "Told you did he?" Most people type out, "Told you, did he?" It's pretty obvious that older forms of English are like that. For his own characters, Tolkien sometimes utilized older forms of speaking that were not unlike Yoda's rhetoric.

I think Yoda talked the way he did because he liked it and was used to it. No other reason. There are plenty of sentences he uttered in the Classic Trilogy that were more modern. I'd like to think that Basic was not his first language. Some people didn't like how Yaddle spoke normally in Tales of the Jedi, but I thought it was fine. There are some members of Yoda's species who do speak in a modern way like that, even in the old EU. Further, in terms of character, it's pretty obvious that Yoda spoke backwards a lot when he was pretending to be crazy in the Classic Trilogy. He spoke both normally and backwards afterward. He doesn't speak backwards all the time. Lastly, I'm just gonna say it's awful to assume that all members of Yoda's species talk the same or have to talk a certain way. Such absurdity. Lol.

 

I believe there are commas in his lines in the scripts. I could be wrong.
Yoda's lines are never grammatically incorrect in the movies that George wrote and directed, though. There are two of Yoda's lines that are, but they were written by Kasdan and Johnson (one in TESB, one in TLJ).

 

The single most syntactically problematic Yoda line is “Life creates it, makes it grow.” Unless you really want to claim that the Force grows, which isn’t how most people appear to interpret this line.

 

That is what he's saying. Life creates the Force and makes it grow.
I've never heard a different take on that line.

It's an echo of Ben's line from the previous episode: "It's an energy field created by all living things."

 

I’ve always interpreted that line as meaning the Force grows from life

 

This would be the only correct interpretation, but most people don't appear to interpret it like that.

 

I was unaware anyone interpreted it differently. What’s the other idea, the Force makes life grow?

I guess interpreting that line is part of the difference between GL’s idea of the Force sprouting from biology compared to the more traditionally religious idea that the spirit precedes matter

 

The basic idea, it seems, is ultimately that everything is one. Midi-chlorians create life, life creates the Force, the Force gives nourishment to the Whills, the Whills makes plans for the universe and communicate with us through the midi-chlorians... It's probably impossible to say what came first. Maybe everything came into being at once, as parts/aspects/dimensions of the great entity that we call the universe. One body with several equally important parts.

On topic, I'd say "So certain are you" is incorrect since it's intended as a statement. As such, it should have been "So certain you are". But it kind of works as a question, too. Then it's "So certain, are you?", which is grammatically correct.

It's the same with "Missed you have I" from TLJ. That should have been "Missed you I have". Taken as a question, it would be "Missed you, have I?", which is hilariously nonsensical.

 

....huh?

the more life is created (which is every second in some capacity) the force grows.

 

Right, but we're talking about the syntax (and, thus, how the meaning of the line depends on its syntax).

That would be the other idea. And I do seem to remember (based on conversations around here) that most people interpreting that line, as you say, as more spiritually-minded (the Force causes life). If that were the intention, that would make the syntax of the line problematic, moreso than any other one of Yoda's lines.

 

that's not what he says.

He says.... "Life creates it"


only Star Wars fans can take a simple line such as this, run with it, and make it mean something else. The force ain't some deity that caused the big bang.

 

I know. I just kept the off-topic thing going for a bit because I think it's interesting

Regarding the line in question, it really just sounds strange to me that many fans would get it wrong. I've literally never heard of it until now. It's meaning is clear. But sure, it's possible that some misinterpret it because they want it to mean something else.

 

I'm aware of that. I don't think anyone's ever claimed that the Force caused the big bang. The claim (other people's claim, not my claim) was that the Force causes life to grow. Even though, like I said, this doesn't work, syntactically.

 

" Around the survivors a perimeter create." is one that always makes my head spin.

 

Hi! To answer the original question: the commas are use to denote the characteristic pauses in Yoda's speech. This is not a matter of proper grammar, it a form of pronunciation aid so readers imagine and/or speak the lines with the intended flow. Furthermore, Yoda does not follow the guidelines for modern Earth English, therefore, the use of or lack thereof has no known rules, other than it should be consistent. Consistency is always key!

 

My professor in college taught us how to figure out syntax for Biblical Hebrew using Yoda and it really works. Arcane English is a better descriptor than Old English. Take it from someone who is studying Anglo-Saxon and who reads Middle English easily.

 

@DarthIshtar, what have you read in Middle English? I enjoyed Canterbury Tales and Le Morte d'Arthur. For me, they were easier to follow if I just skimmed along quickly and let the overall sense come to me without trying to puzzle out each individual word. When I read slowly, I would get bogged down on individual words and struggled to make sense of it.

 

I've never worried about Yoda speaking correctly grammatically. I prefer to keep the commas for the pauses. I've never had trouble understanding Yoda. In fact I think they could get more complicated or strange with Yoda if they wanted.

 

I never had a problem with his grammar (she's quite nice actually) but I did mis-hear a couple of lines - specifically when Luke asks what's in the cave I thought yoda replied "Only what to take with you."

 

Yoda's line to Obi-Wan: "Received a coded retreat message, have we." From ROTS has always bugged me. IMO in fitting with similar statements he says in other episodes, IMO it should go "Received a coded retreat message, we have."

Also, later on, when he says to Palpatine in his office "surprised?" it always gets me cos I expect him there to say "surprised, are you?"