Mini Series The Acolyte 1.03 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

When I heard the word cream, I'd pictured some sort of savory-spiced ice cream treat, but a cookie works as well! These sound tasty.

 

This is pedantic. No, they are not putting a potato sack over the children and dragging them to the Jedi Temple, but they don't offer much of an alternative. Apparently, it is illegal to train children in the ways of the Force if you live within the Republic (this planet isn't even in the Republic but for some reason - the Jedi are spying on this coven and trying to bring the kids to be trained as Jedi.) I'll reserve judgement until the flashback is complete (maybe they thought the children were in danger - IDK).

As it stands, it means those living within the Republic may not train Force users within their cultural norms and can only be taken by the Jedi Order. So the alternative is "You never train them in compliance with your culture or they become Jedi. Pick one." - Not much of a choice.

Even in the episode, the coven did not want them to take the girls and right in front of them, Sol is talking to Osha citing that she'd be a great Jedi and asking if she wants to be trained, despite the fact that the coven clearly does not want this and despite the fact that this planet is not in the Republic. When Jedi take children, it is not often depicted in a positive manner, not even Anakin. Even in the most recent Old Republic trailer: - it is not depicted positively.

I'm not saying there may not be alternatives that are positive. For example, cultures that think the Force users are evil or something and the Jedi take them off of those worlds. I am saying that we rarely, if ever, see that depiction. It's always depicted as a negative, traumatizing act.

 

I'm starting to wonder if the coven didn't view the Force (or Thread) as a Light Side vs Dark Side thing at all. Maybe they just view it as one whole. Aniseya said "some would consider our power dark", which implies that the witches themselves didn't view it that way. If their philosophy doesn't recognize a Dark Side, then the Jedi might see that as a serious risk in the sense of "hey, you ladies don't have any restrictions against this thing that's bad".

 

Ha! There’s nothing pedantic about the massively wide gulf between forcibly taking children from their parents, and asking parents for permission to train their children. This is not like the difference between fewer and less. One of these things is a heinous, immoral crime, and the other is not.

Even in this episode, if Mother Aniseya simply said no, the Jedi would not have taken Osha.

Unless we learn of more insidious Jedi deeds in the forthcoming episodes. Which is possible, as I otherwise don’t understand the extreme level of guilt.

 

I'm liking the series on the whole. I do think the direction is very pedestrian, journeyman-like.

 

It gets a bit confusing.

On one side it appears that the mother could choose indeed. Though, if she could, why bother asking Osha to fail the test? If it was in her control, I don't see the reason to look for tricks.

 

I like seeing different interpretations of the Force. Just as real world religions have different views of gods/deities and different practices/rituals all that goes with it. The High Republic books get into this some (especially with The Path of the Open Hand, for example). Since this is the bridge between that era and the prequels, it only makes sense to see something along these lines.

Also, this may have been quoted already, as I skipped a few few pages here, but Palpatine tells Anakin that to understand the great mysteries of the Force, one must study all its aspects, including the dark side. He specifically mentions the dark side because Anakin is a Jedi at that point, and they're focused on "light side vs dark side." But he does say ALL its aspects, which leaves plenty of room for more than just the basic light vs. dark - for example, this cult in the Acolyte, the witches on Dathomir, the Mortis gods, the Bendu, etc. etc.

If the Force truly exists throughout the whole galaxy and "binds it together," and there's an almost infinite number of cultures and belief systems, there's also the opportunity for just as many different interpretations of the Force and creative ways of using it.

I definitely think there's a lot more to how the coven was wiped out. The dead bodies we briefly saw didn't like they had burned to death. I'm interested to see where the story goes and what other pieces of the puzzle we uncover next week.

 

I gave the episode a 7/10. Very difficult episode to judge because while I like the overall story being told, the execution here was below average. One reason for this is obvious: basing a story around kid actors is always challenging. George Lucas himself learned this lesson the hard way. For child actors, they weren't so bad, but compared to the adult actors in the show, the quality just isn't the same, and I also wasn't a huge fan of the dialogue, but I myself wouldn't even try to write dialogue for kid characters.

I've been waiting a long time to see an exploration of different Force religions, and I enjoyed comparing the Jedi with the Coven, so in that sense, I would give this episode a high score for finally beginning to do this. I think it's important to subvert and estrange people's assumptions about the Jedi's status as heroes. However, this exploration could have been more specific. We could have learned more about just exactly how darkside the coven is, and also what their history is in order to better compare them with the hegemonic Jedi.

One reason the story lacks some detail is that it's told from Osha's POV, and this is why we have limited information about what's happening in the episode. I have to ask myself, what was the point of taking this limited approach to POV in the episode? We don't have a lot of episodes to tell this story, so why not just tell it from a more traditional omniscient POV? What is to be gained by limiting the information here? And what is to be gained by being a bit too subtle about the limited POV? I have watched numerous people react to the episode and about 50% honestly have no idea what's happening at the end. One of my main storytelling principles is that if you confused half your audience, then your experiment isn't working.

I assume the reason for the limited POV is to generate more mystery, but this can be done more effectively using more traditional narrative techniques.

Maybe I'll change my mind after future episodes, but currently I think the approach to this episode was flawed in a number of ways.

Nevertheless, I like what Headland is going for overall, and I hope the execution will be more like Episode 1 and 2 going forward.

 

I never said "forcibly taking children from their parents".

I said: "Their taking of children since the PT has never been particularly a positive thing." Not their kidnapping of children. I am not saying the Jedi are snatching kids in the middle of the night like fairy tale monsters. Taking them to the Jedi Order, with or without permission, is almost always depicted as a traumatizing/negative act. Especially for kids that are older than babies.

Also, it's not really a choice if interstellar law backs them and has granted them the sole monopoly on training in the ways of the Force. They even force "potential padawans" to a test because of a "right" the Republic granted them. Just because the Jedi are polite about it doesn't mean the act itself is without problems. It comes across as very cultish with the backing of state power.

Then why were Osha and Mae compelled to lie about the answers of the test? Why not go straight to the Jedi and tell them no and to leave? Regardless of what Osha wanted. Before Osha admitted she passed the test, the Mother was completely fine with urging Osha to lie. Because she knows the moment she passes and wants to go - the Mother wouldn't have a say. Otherwise, the scene of urging her to lie makes no sense.

Maybe later on we find out the Sith (or some other evil faction) are after Osha/Mae and the Jedi are doing something uncharacteristic and desperate to get the girls. I don't know. I am operating on what has been seen so far in this show (and how it has been depicted in other mediums).

 

Imo, once they learned the girls were born of no father, they probably thought one of them could be the Chosen One from the Prophecy.

What leaves me curious is what tipped them off to go there? They were already spying on the kids for a while.

 

I agree with you. I honestly was waiting for one of them to bring up the prophecy, even in passing to each other. Maybe more to come on this in the season.

 

I'll need to give this one more thought (and see how the remaining episodes play out, of course), but my first impression of this episode wasn't favourable. I didn't like the portrayal of the Jedi basically committing cultural genocide, with the apparent backing of the Republic. It feels like it's trying to make sense of the idea in TLJ that the Jedi thought the Force only belonged to them. I never got that sense from the Jedi. I'd rather bad ideas like that just get ignored then further solidified with backstory and context.

I'll also give it another watch sometime in the next few days and see how it watches the second time.

 

Qui-Gon tells Shmi that if Anakin was born into the Republic, they'd have identified him sooner. That alone gives some credence to the idea that the Jedi believe they have "rights" to any potential Force-user.

 

This comic strip shows Shmi is already clearly pregnant so it’s literally not showing what you think it’s showing. Also the author has already stated that wasn’t his intent.

 

I am just laughing at the whining on-line. I have been a fan for 40 years, I do not consider "canon" much of anything in Star Wars, as it's a FANTASY franchise not science fiction. I watched the episode, I saw some familiar and highly talented actors appear (beautiful Jodie Turner-Smith and Margarita Levieva), and an interesting back story. The number of people who pretend that the Jedi are some kind of infallible union of "monks" is actually comical. This is a very common story telling device that the series is using. I see stunning digital artwork, exquisite costuming and art production design, and an actual PACE to the episodes unlike the Filoni stuff.

Again, if you treat Star Wars lore like many do Star Trek, you're simply going to hate everything done from now on. Get over it.

 

I totally read this in Jolee’s voice

 

I’m loving Mother Aniseya — her look, mannerisms, voice. Something unnerving and sinister yet calm, cool, stoic.

 

according to screencrush's Ryan,

Spoiler: Leaked info

next episodes where are going to see the POV of other characters on the temple fire, which is something very Kurasawa-ish and really cool

 

That's what I was hoping for.

 

This third episode was not as good as the first two. This dedicated flashback episode is an admirably disguised info dump for half of what happened on Brendock. I would have liked smaller flashbacks worked in throughout the season but preferred the past be revealed throughout the story just as Sol's point of view will probably be. These short episode counts are just too small I guess.

I liked Osha and Mae's backstory of expanding The Galaxy with a new culture established on their own religion and traditions with what sounds like an intriguing interpretation of the Force as the Thread of Fate. The galaxy is plenty big enough for more than just Nightsisters. They even played around with symbolism of the "two" trees. I found it interesting to meet little Osha under a tree with golden leaves like one in the Jedi Temple but this one is Willow-like while the one at the Temple always looked like a Boabob. Boabobs, "The Tree of Life" symbolizes resilience, wisdom, and humility. An interconnectedness. The Willow symbolizes adaptability, survival, and grief. But they are also associated with Witchcraft.

 

It's like poetry; they rhyme.

 

I'm thoroughly enjoying the show. The compares and contrasts stir up the imagination.

 

"The power of one, the power of two, the power of MAAAANNNNNNYYY"

This was an abomination. A dump on George Lucas's Star Wars by people who knew nothing about Star Wars but aomehow got to work on it. An inexucusable piece of garbage. I'm done.

Since I can't rate it 0/10, 1/10.

 

Agree. It's pretty hard to deny that the Jedi Order is basically a form of cultural imperialism. That doesn't mean all Jedi are bad, but it does show how the Order can function as a form of systemic oppression.

 

There is, in this case, a fear on Aniseya’s part that given that they’ve been training the children in force usage, they are violating a Jedi rule (as is implied by Indara). And Aniseya hopes to prove otherwise by demonstrating that the children have no force powers. So she encourages them both to lie.

That said, this seems to be an unusual case. The Jedi suspects something dark going on, and so they are acting especially pushy. We only know a part of the story so far. Something else went on, a thing that caused massive guilt among the four Jedi, and that implies that whatever it was, it was an unusual and atypical thing for the Jedi to do. So we can’t use these four Jedi as illustrative examples of Jedi practices in taking children. This looks like a very anomalous situation.

Please, don’t elaborate.