Mini Series The Acolyte 1.03 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Right. So that's enough for the vengeance bit. But it's not enough for the massive Jedi guilt bit. That bit is yet to be clarified.

Yeah, that's exactly how I see it. Like the Great Schism between the Catholic and Orthodox churches which was about tiny differences in wording in a creed and the kind of bread used in ceremonies. But those differences were of course exaggerated by political tensions. I suspect the same thing is happening here. Nearly nonexistent differences exaggerated by political tensions, and perhaps, ignorance. People don't often understand their political adversaries very well.

 

I'm not some huge fan of the show (although so far it's at least meh - which is better than most of the live action shows)... but sometimes I seriously think some Star Wars fans must consume nothing except Star Wars media.

How can people not understand that the show is a mystery and episode 3 isn't a full (or even necessarily accurate) depiction of what actually happened? It's not like this is some complex production that's hard to follow.

 

Are there actually people here who don't understand that?

 

I guessing the people who have declared SW dead thanks to this entry in GFFA entertainment. However, guessing, like assuming, is usually inaccurate. There could be many people out there who don't understand many things regarding SW and still bitch about it.

 

Been some pretty creative skits hitting the Tube for FEMA and OSHA ‘s ascension ceremony today for some nice chuckles.

 

It's like Reva: she kills Jedi in order to have revenge on Anakin who killed her Jedi friends [/QUOTE]
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Something along those lines did occur to me too.

 

Acolyte makes the Last Jedi look like Citizen Kane and with Rise of Skywalker both products are mediocre but Rise of Skywalker at least looks more like Star Wars and kinda respects the franchise more but still both products Acolyte and the Sequels they are the most controversial Disney Star Wars stories

 

I thought the episode was a 5/6 out of 1. Mot terrible an not good - very much meh. I enjoyed the first 2 episodes much more.

I feel like not enough people are mentioning the fact that the witches reminded the Jedi that the planet was outside of Republic jurisdiction, yet the Jedi continued to force them to give up the children.

Not good

 

We'll see, yes.

However, it was only Torbin who suffered from guilt. And it could have been the "guilt of letting one of the witches possess his brain and kill the rest of the witches". Or something entirely different. I did not really see any guilt from the rest 3 of the Jedi Masters that were stationed on Brendok at the time of the incident.

Also, maybe Torbin is a guilt-prone character. My mom feels guilty about anything and everything, even in certain situations where someone entirely different is to blame for something. Maybe whatever happened on Brendok shook him to his core. So once again, yes, I agree with you that certain things will be clarified.

If Torbin is not justified in feeling guilty and it was because of the actions of others, then this show is going in a really cool direction.
If the Jedi willingly committed crimes of violence on Brendok, then the show is non canon and can be completely ignored when talking about SW =)

 

This ep has a 3.9 on IMDb from 37k responses. I haven't seen it and don't really plan to as the first two eps just didn't engage me. This is not a post to bag the show out either, it is just my view. I was never a huge fan of Farscape and that is kind of what has thrown me off from the first two eps. Is the IMDb rating a fair reflection of the episode though?

Reading through comments on here, it seems like most on here thought is was ok to interesting. The usual suspects of course that think everything sucks say it sucks but in this instance...for once...are they right?

 

Being a fan of genre fiction, I'm used to enjoying many things that get less than stellar reviews. In this case, I think any review aggregate is meaningless.

 

Could be visions and dreams through the Force. Like Luke with Dagobah and Rey with Achoo.

 

It sucks in terms of cinematic quality but it was fun overall.

 

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I agree with a lot of what you've said. You're right about drawing the parallel with the demonisation of powerful and independent women as witches at times in the not so distant past. I said in another post that I don't think the Jedi come out of this episode looking too great. Their seemingly dogmatic approach to the Force, other Force users and their belief that they can turn-up on a non-Republic planet and impose their view of the Force on others is perhaps meant to highlight the seeds of their eventual fall. Of course, we're talking about a fictional galaxy and a fictional power, but the idea that young kids are asked or expected to make that decision to sever ties with their families seems prety brutal. Having said that, I think Sol is already well on the way to becoming a fan favourite. I'm really intrigued as to how the story is going to unfold.

 

But that makes no sense. The Jedi had no issues with the Nightsisters of Dathomir, who were far more creepy than these ones ever were. There are so many of different Force schools: Nightsisters, Bardottans, Guardians of the Whills, there's probably more. Why do the Jedi and the Galaxy take issue with these women in particular? IRL political commentary doesn't cut it for me when it comes to being a story set in an established setting. Why the hell do we consider Jedi some kind of closed-minded dogmatics, when we are talking about people, who made individuals out of clones bred in vats? How can we possibly consider them dogmatic or whatever, when they even encourage cultural and racial diversity, seeing that Mirialans or Togruta uphold their traditions and culture? They do not erase the culture and identity of their members, they don't mold everyone into some faceless, identical mass. So I have no reason to think the Jedi would have any problem with these cringe witches, unless they want to cause harm to someone. There is no reason otherwise for them to be "hunted" and "persecuted." This is pure and utter nonsense, and the entire conflict is forced and made possible only because everyone is written stupid and out of character.

 

Kelnacca has given up being a Jedi and exiled himself to the woods, no? I agree that there is no clear guilt shown by Indara or Sol. Although Sol clearly has regrets, I don't take them to be of the "we did something horrible" guilt variety, more in the "things didn't turn out like I hoped, maybe I could have done things differently" vein. I also suspect that Sol knows less than the others. Indara does not seem surprised Mae is alive, Torbin seems to KNOW that Mae is alive, but Sol seems genuinely surprised.

ETA:

Or because the coven committed crimes or dangerous acts as of yet unknown the to the audience, that they coven believes are justified, but the Republic and Jedi do not.

 

Well, the episode sure didn't convey that, didn't even hint at that. They played a full-on victim card here. And the Jedi were there seemingly to stalk children, and not because they had committed some crime. I'd be surprised if there was more to it than "mean Jedi don't let us have power because they are mean and stupid and don't get it".

 

They said they were persecuted because their beliefs were labelled "dark." Not hard to assume there was a reason they got that reputation. It is implied they were allowed exile (or managed exile) on the condition that they not train new members (at least not children). The Jedi were there because they WERE training children, in apparent violation of Republic law (which shouldn't apply, but that is another discussion). Charitably, the Jedi were there on unrelated business and removing the children from the coven became the mission once it was discovered, but that is unlikely the case.

 

They say they are dark, but they don't do anything particularly dark, other than the Torbin thing - which was self-defense against trespassing Jedi. Their beliefs, their definition of the Force is not even all that different from Obi-Wan's in ANH. There was nothing dark about that. Again, they say it, but they never show it.

The way it was presented to us: they live in a harmonic society, sing kumbaya, hunt deer and eat cream. Could they not like, I don't know, make sacrifice at the ascension ritual, or something? That would show, not assume, some darkness and Dark Side, instead of those cringe chanting songs. See, the key word in your post here is "assume." Because none of it has been actually told. A lot of these Star Wars shows do that: they make us assume all the time and do the legwork for the writers. And the show doesn't seem to think that the Dark Side is actually supposed to be corrupting, it is supposed to stem from anger, fear and hatred. The more you use it, the worse it gets. It's not some videogame ability. None of which was presented in these witches, other than Mae, who was an insane psychopath as an 8 year old.

 

The line of "exiled and hunted" has been stuck in my mind. It's obviously said to make the audience believe it was by the Jedi, but I'm not so sure that's true. I'm thinking of an internal schism with a larger group of witches, say in the vein of Aiel and Tinkers in Wheel of Time.

 

If it wasn't clear before, it is now, we don't know enough except to make guesses based on past SW stories. We don't know why they aren't part of force users at Jehda, or why they were in exile or considered "dark." I'm betting it's the musical number that was interrupted by the Jedi.

 

I'm hoping this turns out to be Yojimbo blended with The Lair of the White Worm.

Yojimbo synopsis: A crafty ronin comes to a town divided by two criminal gangs and decides to play them against each other to free the town.
The Lair of the White Worm synopsis: When an archaeologist uncovers a strange skull in a foreign land, the residents of a nearby town begin to disappear, leading to further inexplicable occurrences.

The serpent and the ronin would represent the Sith. The two criminal gangs would represent the witches and the Jedi. But of course the ronin (Sith) is not trying to free the town, but instead, forges an ally who was betrayed by each side (witches vs Jedi), luring that individual to join the Sith.
The mountain facility (village in White Worm) was built above a cavernous Sith lair.

I hope.

 

This latest episode also had me scratching my head about the internal logic of the plot and the character portrayals.

A lot of it didn't add up and there were some very cringey parts and poor acting, as well as some intriguing and well acted bits.

Overall, it is not an episode of the same calibre as the previous two episodes.

Due to the plot holes and inconsistencies with characters, I am left wondering if we have yet to see the whole picture, as others have said. I don't recall anything that I could specifically point to that suggests the episode was nothing but an accurate portrayal of what happened (except the plot holes, etc, and the fact I want it to be a good episode!)

My theory is that it was a Sith, or an agent of theirs, who caused the mayhem and death. This only makes sense if this entire episode is told "from a certain point of view" episode - the Osha/Jedi view.

I hope this is the case and we are shown the other point of view (Mae/Sith) that completes the story and fills in the plot holes and strange character development we see. (Otherwise it remains a poor episode, IMHO).

Here's a possible Mae/Sith alternative about what happened and how it could complete the picture...

The Sith were already looking for Acolytes and Apprentices and were on Brendok. (Maybe the coven were in league with them, I don't know). The Jedi were on the planet tracking the Sith (not sure how they knew about them, but they seemed very suddenly defensive and urgent about taking the children even before checking their M-count). The Sith were present when the coven were worried about the generator thing (unless I'm misremembering and this was actually explained). The coven were poisoned, or killed by an explosion, either of which were the Sith's doing. Possibly a battle with the Jedi? In any case, they were not burned by Mae. Mae's fire-starting is incidental.

Mae is blamed for the bigger tragedy, as she is a convenient, presumed-dead scapegoat for what really happened for everyone who does survive. The Jedi and Sith use a story to convert the twins to their sides. There is a Jedi conspiracy of silence about this tragedy to minimise the Sith presence/threat in the galaxy. The four Jedi present have differing degrees of guilt in relation to what actually happened.

How does Mae get off-world? The Sith were already there and save her when she falls (or after). This mirrors Sol saving Osha. The Sith train her to hunt the Jedi who seemingly destroyed the coven.

Of course, I may be very wrong. The name "Mae" can mean a "sea of bitterness" as well as "beloved" apparently, which is also the simple account/story we've seen. The story may be just what is portrayed...