Mini Series The Acolyte 1.05 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I thought it was one of the most enthralling and engaging episodes of SW TV that I've seen, it kept me on the edge of my seat. I thought that the un-named Sith exuded evil and menace and the reveal was really well done.

 

Jedi aren’t and should not be presented as superheroes that can only be defeated by supervillains. That would be the beginning of a flattening of the Star Wars universe that’d kill the franchise for me.

 

Re: Mae’s motivations
I’d agree the execution is a little jarring, but I don’t think they were that hard to follow. Mae joined no name Sith man because he offered her the opportunity for revenge against the Jedi, who she blames for the loss of Osha, who she is extremely attached to, as well as probably the death of the rest of the coven, either directly or indirectly. Over the course of her training though, she comes to discover that Dark Side masters can be kind of a prick, so on a personal level she doesn’t actually like him. Their relationship only exists on a pragmatic level(well, in her mind anyways. She doesn’t know that Qimir and him are the same person). Her continued loyalty is bound by only 2 factors, 1) she feels like she needs his help to get her revenge, and 2) she knows if she does not uphold her end of the deal, she will face ultimate retribution. So when Osha is revealed to still be alive, it challenges her quest for revenge because it means to some extent the events on Brendock did not transpire exactly as she believed, a story it’s possible that Darth Smiley fed her, and more importantly that it’s not too late to pursue the thing that she actually desires the most, a life with her sister. Even if she still resents the Jedi and everything they stand for, if she has to choose between being a wanted galactic fugitive to act on it, or calling a truce so she can live out her days in a peaceful journey with her sister, she’ll take option number 2 every time. That is her main driving goal. So she’s already having doubts about the path she’s on when she finds herself trekking through the impenetrable forest of doom on some godforsaken planet in the middle of nowhere, on her way to fight a Wookiee Jedi to the death with the stipulation that she has to kill him with her bare hands, and she just hits those critical levels of “F this” where she’s willing to take a risk just to find a way out of the situation. She knows she can’t hope to fight or trick her master, but after experiencing the forest herself, she calculates that no matter how powerful he is, he can’t brute force his way out of being lost. This gives her a window of time where there will be delay between when she decides to betray him, and when he is able to figure it out and enact retribution. With this thesis, she concocts her plan of escape from his servitude. Obviously she isn’t trying to just wander around this forest alone for the rest of her life, so she’s going to have to work with Kalnacca, the only person around who doesn’t report to her master. Of course, he isn’t going to be inclined to do her any favors, but their goals can still overlap. She trusts that as a Jedi he can neither execute a submissive enemy in cold blood nor turn away a wanted murderer who’s willing to turn themselves in, even if those might be his preferred responses. Instead he will be obligated to report her capture to Coruscant, where they will order her extraction to stand trial, per the official justice system. Ironically, this is still one of the safest places she can be, as the master needs to keep his existence a secret, which prevents a full frontal assault on the detention block at the republic’s capital. Next she has to deal with the murder charge, which is of course true. So her plan is basically to plea bargain. “Yes I’m guilty but it’s not really me you want. I was corrupted by the real threat but I’ve changed now and I’ll totally sell him out if you just give me a lighter sentence. Also I didn’t even really kill Torbin, he killed himself so it was really only 1 murder if you think about it. We can work this out and let bygones be bygones”. And then she spends a few rotations chilling in a maximum security prison while the full weight of the Jedi order is brought down upon her master until he’s neutralized and both her problems solve themselves. Alas, this whole plan immediately comes undone once she realizes that her underlying assumption, that it will take some time for her master to locate Kalnacca’s abode, is inaccurate. This means the Jedi cannot offer her safety, which is really the only thing she wants from them. Kalnacca being dead only further hinders any chance at cooperation as they naturally believe she just killed him, which undermines the idea that she had a significant change of heart. These are too delicate of negotiations to take place in a live fire situation. So she’s kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place where she every combatant on both sides potentially sees her as a hostile. At first she’s just biding her time, to gather more information before she chooses a side. But it becomes clear that the Jedi can’t win and Darth Smiley’s good graces can’t be restored. So she decides her only course of action is to get as far away as possible while they’re distracted with each other, but she is unable to achieve even this. Luck finally smiles on her however, and eventually the battle comes to a conclusion with only her and her sister present and consciousness. After everything that’s happened in her life, this is basically her dream scenario. Now they can finally run away and be together. But this dream is crushed by Osha herself. She’s not willing to forgive Mae and go along with her. This kind of shatters Mae’s world, as her one true desire was right in front of her and yet it was still impossible for her to have it. The one obstacle stopping her from being with Osha is Osha herself. The solution is the problem. It can’t be reconciled. And so she convinces herself that it’s not Osha that’s rejecting her, it’s the Jedi ideology that must responsible, because she cannot accept reality. That’s when she concocts whatever plan she’s up to with the twin switching stuff as her way of feeling like she’s being proactive about the situation. It’s unclear whether she still believes her sister can be saved from the woke Jedi mind virus or if it’s a “then my sister is truly dead” moment, but either way I suspect she’s determined to get to the root of the problem, which requires more than her previous goal of just killing the 4 Jedi masters she holds grudges on from her childhood.

 

I thought he was perfect. His presence was nearly demonic in terms of intimidation factor. I haven't been this impressed with a Star Wars villain since the debut of Maul in the Phantom Menace. I hope they find a way to use his character past the conclusion of this show. Dude can sell merchandise. I'd gladly wear a Lord Smiley T-shirt.

 

I wasn't tired before reading this paragraph-less post.

Now I'm tired,

 

I thought the fighting in this one was quite good, however the motivations of the characters are not convincing.
Neither is a Sith Lord who massacers Jedis because he just wants to be allowed to use the force as he wants nor are any of the actions of Osha and Mae.
Sol doing the same nonsense as Obi Wan not killing a serial killing Sith when having the opportunity to do so is still stupid and a bit boring meanwhile.

+ visually great
+ overall story idea

- dialogues
- character development
- character motivations
- overall writing

I see that this episode gets good ratings here, however watching HoD S02 and The Boys S04 in parallel makes this show look and feel quality wise like a mix of Babylon 5 and Star Trek Next Generation mid season stuff. I can't share the hype.

5/10

 

Mae's motivation is easy to figure out. She's insane. Not entertainingly insane, but still a nutbar regardless. She was raised in isolation by a coven of people who told her she was the most important person in the world, and then she was trained in isolation by galaxy-class gaslighter who fed her ego and led her to believe that she was perfectly in the right to behave as she did. To Mae, everything she does makes perfect sense, because she is a perfect person who can do no wrong.

In other words, she's a self-centered brat in addition to being a dangerous narcissist. Her character arc is being a chaotic pest. She's believable as a person but also terribly mundane for Star Wars. She's more of a Criminal Minds case of the week than anything else.

 

Just think how tired I am from writing it lol. (Also I’ve literally joked IRL before that if I ever wrote a novel it would all be one paragraph and it would be the editors problem to figure it out and fix that. But I’m just a random internet poster. I don’t have an editor here so you get what you get)

 

Or they set up an as of yet unrevealed patsy? A Jedi they can pretend turned, or a group of saber wielders that outnumbered the Jedi, or something better than what I can come up with. I see no reason to assume a coverup is the only option.

Hit his head is what I assumed for Sol. As far as Jecki, I think she just went to keep an eye on Mae while the other 8 Jedi were fighting Helmet. Actually pretty smart.

 

Mae tried to kill her sister.
Accidentally killed her family. (Possibly)
Tried to kill Qirem when she thought he was just a stooge.
Tried to betray her master.
Tried to kill Jeckie even after vowing to surrender.
Attacked her sister again.
Is probably planning to kill Sol.

The consistency here lies in the constant treachery. This brat betrays EVERYONE. This is who she is. Immature, selfish, impulsive, quick to anger, dark triad traits all the way. She can't possibly be the real Acolyte. Anakin got a pass because he had the sheer power to make having him around worth it. Not Mae. Even Savage Oppress had more self-restraint.
She's a duck whistle.

 

9/10. Best. Episode. Yet.

I have slight concerns regarding the story direction, but that is only where it could go and not necessarily where it is going, so we shall see.

To clarify the kind of concerns I have, here's an example;
I hope they are not using Qimir and his "Sith with No Name" persona to move away from the established and canonical rule of 2. I hope he is part of the Sidious Sith family tree, and not a random Darkside user that is teaching himself to be a "Sith" just because he wants to and he's been told he can't (which is how he is currently being presented IMO).
But as a counter to those thoughts we know Lesley has said this show is about how the Sith can infiltrate the system right under the noses of the Jedi. Whether she means that specifically or in a broad sense we don't yet know so the best thing to do is wait and find out as the story unfolds.

But still... Best. Episode. Yet.

 

Anakin looking like a "moron" was kind of the point. Obi-Wan more or less baited him into doing something arrogant. He easily could have side-stepped Obi-Wan with his floating droid, or he could have stepped on land with no worries, because having the high-ground wasn't much of an advantage in that situation.
Then there is the mirroring of Episode I. Obi-Wan jumped over Maul, who didn't react, and then cut him in half. Obi-Wan thus knew exactly what would happen if someone tried that move against him.

Beyond that, someone not doing something on screen doesn't mean that said person wasn't capable of doing it. Nor does it somehow mean that no one could, or that it "doesn't make sense". We don't even see whether he is floating or merely slowing down his fall, similarly to how multiple Jedi have done before to others (see Obi-Wan doing it in Kenobi. or Indara in The Acolyte). Not that people having different skillsets would somehow be an issue. We never see Vader or Palpatine fight like Maul, does that somehow mean it's unrealistic? No, it means that different people behave differently and have different skills.

 

This is it in a nutshell, I'm a Corrections Officer, I wonder what your career is... well said indeed.

 

Same here... which just made me look at Mae as a probate for an STG. Attack the enemy without a shank to prove your loyalty.

 

I see several people saying "Mae's motivations are easy to understand", just to follow up with explanations that are in conflict with each other. Maybe it's not that obvious after all...

 

I hope the exact opposite. I like it when the galaxy gets more expansive and more intricate, not less. And all darksiders needing to be of the Sidious line shrinks the galaxy, IMO, making it less layered and less interesting. I hope, like the witches weren’t Nightsisters, that Qimir isn’t of the Sidious line.

But I think he will be. His master will be Plagueis, I think. And after Qimir bites it, Plagueis will begin searching for a new apprentice. And eventually find one on Naboo.

 

Does it even matter what the Sith in TPM want?
They are different people, not a hive mind. They can have different goals and different ideals. Just because the Sith have been following a plan, doesn't mean that a master cannot have taken on an apprentice who ended up not caring much about that plan. Not every apprentice will blindly adhere to the plan, especially not among such a group of people who are very much about themselves.

That doesn't even cover the possibility of him lying. There isn't much of a reason to take everything a villain says at face value, he's the villain after all.

In this particular case, he didn't even want to expose himself either. He only did so after Mae threatened to hand herself over to the Jedi and tell them about her master, at which point he had to make sure she didn't, which was kind of hard without taking down the Jedi as well.

He also doesn't claim to be a Sith. He says the Jedi would call him one, which is something else entirely. Yes, he (very likely) is a Sith, but it's not what he has stated so far.

How is that unusual?
People always have different interpretations, regardless of how clear something is. Doesn't necessarily mean that something isn't clear. There are people out there who consider a clear cut coup-attempt not a coup-attempt and try to turn the perpetrator into the victim. Different people seeing different things isn't contradictory or saying anything about whether the topic is clear cut or not.

 

I agree with this in theory. But it’s the execution that kills the theory. There was zero sense of an emotional “F this” moment for her. It was such a flat and blandly executed decision. And then…why was turning herself into the Wookiee Jedi her next move? I read your explanation on that, but it’s a massive extrapolation that you simply can’t imply. That had to be shown. So the “go to Kelnacca” thing has to be resolved. And there’s something still missing there, given the focus on the witch symbols in his house…

 

I'm not particularly in the mood for some semantic philosophical digressions but, to me, something being open to several interpretations is as close as it gets to the literal definition of unclear.

 

To the bold bit. Oh I agree, I had a completely different (and more expansive)* theory about the rule of 2, but sadly the canon is what it is and any Sith outside of the Sidious line will have a detrimental effect on what is currently established over multiple media formats.
I'm all for expanding lore, but I want officially established story canon to remain intact, even if it is from a certain point of view.

*Yoda: Always 2 there are, a master and an apprentice.
My take: Ah, so the Sith always work in pairs. Simple.
Official take: There are only 2 Sith in the entire galaxy.

 

Also, who says the “revenge” against the Jedi can’t in part be driven by what happens in the Acolyte?

 

I mean we know even just from the prequels that enough droids or clones can do the job.

Anakin jumps off a pretty sizable cliff in AotC and presumably slows himself down at the ground. It pans to the turkey village so we don't know for sure. But he definitely doesn't sustain an injury from it

 

I thought considering it was obvious from the last episode Qimir was the darksider (would of been better if they'd shown him in a fight scene with Mae in that episode being a bumbling idiot against another force or bug)

However the switch from the actor and his mannerisms and look was very good and made the obvious reveal less flat.

He does remind of the the Knight of Ren - interested to see what else they do with this and if he is the Apprentice, Master, Knight of Ren, or Offshoot.

Recently started reading the high republic novels before this show and although isnt essential it does help me with the background of where the JEDI are at and where theyve been with the Nihil etc

 

10/10

 

It isn't though, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with "semantic philosophical digressions". As I said, people will deliver drastically different opinions on something that is as clear cut as it gets. And it says nothing whatsoever about the actual situation. There are people who believe the earth is flat, and they will be steadfast in their claims. Does thast somehow mean the shape of the earth is somehow unclear? No, it certainly doesn't.

Witnesses to a bank-robbery all claim to definately have seen a different number of people involved and completely different cars (in shape and colour) being used to get away. Yet there is obviously only one truth to how many people were involved and which car they used. The situation is very much clear, the interpretation some people will create is not.

That doesn't even cover that people can have vastly different interpretations that all fit to a specific scenario. They can make logical sense from their point of view. It would only be contradictory if people with the same approach ended up with different conclusions. People will assign motivations that fit to their point of view or the narrative they want to tell, which is how you end up with people from the far-left and the far-right lamenting the same behaviour of a centrist for vastly different reasons.

None of which has any bearing on whether the motivations are clear or not. People can very much think they understood something yet be totally wrong. Under such circumstances the issue doesn't lie with the situation being unclear, but with someone not understanding the situation, which is something entirely different. Being convinced you understood the message behind something doesn't mean you actually did.