Mini Series The Acolyte 1.05 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

No I never said anything about negative traits. If anything that's how they could justify the jedi doing something bad unprovoked. The Jedi are meant to be the good guys after all so its expected that they would be the innocent ones in all this. But when I said look bad I mean what side is going to make the first move. And I think its going to be the jedi. creates a dark secret and makes one of them suicidal for what they did.

Although yeah I do think having a convent of witches who use the force to create children for themselves does create an image of the jedi coming in and destroying a family.

 

Finally got around to watching this episode, was going to write a more detailed Good, Bad, Ugly review but frankly I’m just not that interested in this show and have other things to do. Here’s the short version:

• Lightsaber fighting is fun, but not the best duels we’ve seen of Star Wars streaming, Ahsoka’s duel with Baylan was better both in terms of drama and choreography/camera work.
• Qimir, or Smile-o Ren - most intriguing character of the show so far
• Writing still bad, Mae’s ping pong decision making is bewildering
• Episode 4&5 should have been a single episode, although that would have further hilighted the poor writing
• Giant Vampire Moths

I’m giving it a 5. The best episode of the season is still the pilot imo

 

Sounds like a you problem.

 

WHAT IF: Osha was actually the one who started the fire and, in KotOR/Revan-fashion, had her mind wiped by the Jedi?

Or, alternatively, she never wanted to join the Jedi and leave her family as a kid and what we saw in ep3 was the memories the Jedi implanted in her. Programmed her into a Jedi-worshipper that she actually never was.

 

I just hope this kind of POV is limited to Star Wars because… No!
Showing someone aside with a force push is a power display…
… possessing their mind without consent is a deep violation of someone’s personal integrity and should be treated as such… possessing someone’s brain without their consent is on par with possessing someone’s body without their consent IMO… this is deeply wrong dark and disturbing… so like @Bor Mullet said multiple times we may all agree the witches have not been portrayed as purely good and unproblematic until here… I would say the exact contrary… we may get a bit more grey areas from here to the end but I really don’t think the coven will end up being the “good side” against the “bad Jedi”…
Also other question: as far as I know force healing is considered possible in canon only if you are part of a dyad for light force users… did I miss something and for dark users it is possible without being in a force dyad?

 

To be fair the jedi are often reading peoples minds, so the idea of concept is really the assumption that its a galaxy that must ask consent because that's what good people do.

But then they are witches. they have magic and power, they can do what they want from their perspective. Witches are known to use magic. But in that perspective, you gotta ask what damage are they doing? If the jedi had not turned up and possibly felt like they were interfering in this society, would the witches have gone on to do bad things with that power? Or were they just out of the way doing their own thing until the Jedi turned up?

Grogu also used it twice. So probably not just dyads.

 

Loved it. Tense, exciting and some shocking deaths. Other than the obvious great action and death scenes for Yord and Jecki, a couple of moments I particularly enjoyed was Yord talking about Qimir getting inside his head and then the quick head shots of Qimir while Mae was running. Added another dimension to Qimir’s attack and showed how vulnerable the Jedi were to him.

 

Possessing and reading are not the same thing though… reading takes information out but doesn’t input anything… possessing takes your willpower away and leaves you without control of your mind and body and makes you do things you don’t want to do…
Would not compare …
For Grogu that’s why there was speculation about him being part of a force dyad… because it is supposed to be canon that force healing is a power only force dyad a have…

 

I don't think its ever been said that only Dyads could force heal.

 

One bit that I quite liked was this when Sol was Sol was giving Qimir crap for killing Jecki because “she was a child.”

Qimir responds “you brought her here.”

And for as much as a twisted psycho as he is, he kind of has a point there. Jedi, don’t train child soldiers, bring them into battle, and then be surprised when they die.

 

Exactly. What do you think is going to happen when said child capable with a deadly weapon tries to attack someone with an equally deadly weapon?

 

I was convinced I read that somewhere but can’t find it anymore…

 

Yeah, they shouldn't but they do.

This also gives us insight into Sol's character. He views his padawan as his child.

This theme of his yearning to be a father and part of a family is a key aspect of the story.

One of the first things he tells Osha is how he left his own family when he was 5, and we see later how he lingers on the image of his old padawan, which Jecki questions him about.

I don't know if this will have plot relevance, but it shows us that he has stronger expression of feeling and attachment than other Jedi.

In fact, the loss of Jecki almost drives him to the darkside until Osha calms him.

Headland says the father-daughter relationship will be a focus for the final episodes.

 

I'm not familiar with the Jedi Covenant story, but it sounds really good.

Whether or not that's part of the story here, I am almost certain that the violence ultimately comes down to the Jedi discovering how the Coven created the twins. Mother Koril brings this up so overtly that it would be very surprising if we do not see it play out.

Of course, I also think Mother Koril will lead her own rebellion against Mother Aniseya. Maybe she starts this by possessing the Jedi and making them attack Aniseya and those loyal to her.

If the plot point about how the Coven created the twins isn't part of the conflict, that may be one of the mysteries that Headland says will be revealed in a possible S2.

 

If the show tries to promote the message that the dark side users were victims and they were innocent, and that the Jedi did something morally wrong, then this will go against everything Star Wars is about, and I will probably consider this show a pile of trash in this instance.

I don't even know why a viewer would want to see the good guys killing people. What dark corner of someone's psyche does that satisfy? Since when do we want SW to be pessimistic and miserable?

 

It works on multiple levels because the way he says it it’s clear he also wants Sol to be the one who feels responsible and terrible for her loss. Which is next level antagonism.

Quimir is is probably the best new live action dark side villain we’ve had as a true villain without redeemable qualities since Palpatine because we’ve seen him deceive people, we’ve seen him manipulate people, we’ve seen him out duel multiple Jedi, we’ve seen him enjoy the suffering of others, we’ve seen him literally and figuratively get into the minds of others, and make use of Cortosis. His make also looks legit creepy and now-predates in canon several others. He stalks people like a slasher horror villain. Complete with the slow head tilts. Jacinto absolutely nailed this role IMHO. Both aspects of it. Like I love Darth Maul, Dooku and Grevious each a ton and I also love Kylo Ren more then many around here probably do but Headland has nailed Quimir. I really hope that we discover he does have ties to the same Sith that ultimately train Palpatine because that just feels right to be based on his skills and talents.

i re-watched this episode again tonight btw and I still stand by what I said. The moth thing is obviously too convenient for many adults but didn’t feel wildly out of spirit for me from something Lucas might have also done. It’s up there with Ewok stuff or Anakin blowing up a station as a kid. In other words… it felt Star Wars-y to me because moments like that are part of Star Wars.

I think that’s what I’m enjoying most about this show. It has some of the Lucas Flash Gordon melodrama to it. It has a bit of that Samurai and martial arts spirit to it. And it’s directed professionally in a manner that visually reminds me a bit of JJ & Rian’s visual direction which I enjoyed visually so for me episode 5 was a really nice Star Wars experience and one that I hope is a hint of more to come ahead.

it truly saddens me that we may not get a second season due to the hate that exists for this show because I get the impression that it could grow in darkness and lore building dramatically by S2.

 

Hell yeah, that episode was awesome!
Zero complaints from me.

Some of the best lightsaber combat we’ve ever seen.
Loved the creativity with Qimir’s helmet and gauntlet.
Qimir is definitely the most interesting character now.
Some really shockingly unexpected deaths.
The ending left me looking forward to next week.
Story progressed well.

I think episode 3 and 4 should’ve been combined into one to avoid the momentum that was lost after the first two episodes.
This made up for a lot though.

9/10. Awesome stuff.

 

Isn't the first canon example Grogu healing someone/something in Mando Season 1? Pretty sure that didn't involve a dyad. Maybe the special dyad thing is bringing your dyad partner back to life (at the cost of your own life) - as at the end of TROS.

 

It would not be about being pessimistic and miserable but I think about putting some more nuance about things and reflecting on how even when you are the “good guy” it sometimes happens that you have to make choices and do things that may end up hurting people, things that you feel are wrong and bad but they need to be done for a greater good?
I have a friend and he is the “good guy”…
… but said friend had once to shoot someone because the person was trying to kill his colleague (I spare you the details)…he had no other choice it was either that or his colleague was dead… so it was the right thing to do, but it was also a terrible
Thing to do… times has passed but my friend is still troubled about that even if he knows that he had no other choice and it was the right thing to do…
So life is not all good bad situations that are all clear.
furthermore, sometimes good people have to make choices and they choose to do what they think is right but their decision ends up bringing bad things and being the wrong decision.. I think something like that could also have happened.
I also have trouble understanding how showing that a group of Jedi went bad and did bad things would signify trying to say the Jedi are all inherently bad?
The choices of a few people do not represent the core belief of a whole group so …and it is credible that sometimes even some jedi so bad things.. I mean I know one guy who ended up becoming a sith and killing a bunch of kids… I believe you can show some
Jedi taking questinable choices without saying that all the jedi are bad and flawed?
But we will see where it goes!

The force healing thing in canon I think it was in TROS the first time in live action then mandalorian but there appears to be some written canon material (in a book?) where it was said that force healing is a power that comes within a force dyad? But I can’t find the book reference anymore?
That’s why after Grogu force healed there was some niche speculation about him being in a dyad!
I will search for it!

 

The episode where Grogu does it aired on December 18 and Rise of Skywalker was released on December 20.

 

Ok did not recall that because I did see it first and then ROS sorry

 

lol no need to be sorry? I was just stating it because I found it interesting. I have a feeling that someone planned it that way. There's no way I would have remembered that if I didn't get curious and look it up.

 

No thanks. Watching these type of videos on youtube is something I grew out of a long time ago, its a wretched hive of attention seeking scum and villainy out there, theres nothing to be gained from them.

 

Ki-Adi: your thoughts dwell on your mother

Anakin - thoughts totally dwelling on Padme- uhhm yeah, my mother, *cough* uhh...what has that got to do with anything?

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Jedi Master Mundi being wrong for 100 years