Mini Series The Acolyte 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

9. On its own a great episode.

But I’d probably give the series a 7.5. Good ideas, concepts, world building, some good characters too. But poor story and.pacing choices to get to us to the end.

 

watching again -

it seems Sol was about to shoot a rocket at Mae's ship and Bazil pulled the wiring to stop him. But why ?

 

This is the show’s central concept

 

Bazil works for the Jedi, and Sol had been acting wrongly - shutting off comm and flying off.

 

Well, that settles that: https://www.indiewire.com/features/...-reveal-confirmed-leslye-headland-1235026659/

 

Some immediate thoughts on the episode:
-Really like the political conflicts between the Senator and Vernestra; and her seemingly self-righteousness.
-Still no clear answer on who created Mae/Osha or how they were created. We hear that her mother did, but how reliable is that? I'm betting Koril is working with Plagueis to experiment with the Force in creating life.
-FANTASTIC lightsaber battle and use of Force powers.
-Pip squirt-gunning Osha?!?
-Strange anime-ish soundtrack during Mae/Osha battle.
-Incredible Dark Side power from Osha and bleeding the crystal.
-The Jedi are not setting up a 5-clik perimeter as commanded by Vernestra, instead they are following a bizarre "tracker".
-Is the tree the Vergence?
-I do like Osha and Qimir teaming up. Their future together is intriguing. Especially with Plagueis lurking in the shadows.
-Still very perplexed at where the 180 million was spent on this show, because even the special-effects-heavy lightsaber battles could not have possibly cost that much.

 

I take it you don't work in the film industry.

Everything you see on screen in this show is created from scratch. Sets, props, costumes, makeup, etc. But even the things you see on screen doesn't begin to cover the costs.

But why do people care how much this show cost?

 

Also in the interview, Headland says she hopes a segment of the audience will think of Qimir and Osha as married and with a happy ending? And Osha as triumphant?

really? I didn’t get that at all.

 

I think force choke is meant to count as killing a Jedi without a weapon. Poor old Sol got a lot wrong but there may be something to his theory the twins are the same person and there is a mysterious power that created them. Osha completes Mae's task by killing the 4th Jedi and then takes her place next to Qimir. Is it all a part of a crazy Sith Xanatos Gambit? I gotta wonder if Osha and Mae were manufactured to damage the Jedi much like the Jedi leading the Clone Army later. The entire fight sequence was shallowly the highlight of the show. One of the coolest fights in the franchise ending with Osha going Savage Opress with her animalistic and instinctive use of force.

It's a lame attempt at deconstructing the Overcome Their Differences trope. Osha and Mae switcheroo completely. As cool as it was to see a saber's crystal bled on screen there isn't much payoff because it's so predictable and Osha is still much more a plot device than a character. Mae is the real MC. Memory-wiped Mae is way more interesting. However, I didn't imagine when Sol's character arc would turn out this way. A stain on the Jedi that gives a very slight push of dissonance within the senate. A cover-up, of a cover-up to sweep under the rug Vernestra's fallen pupil. If this gets a second season I think she is the real villain of the story. I understand this is a story about a hero with good intentions just not getting it right and leaving destruction in his wake even in the future-tense. A well-executed one I don't know about.

Honestly, this show just wasn't it for me. It was surprisingly fun in the beginning. I think, it is trying to be the kind of show that doesn't spoon me answers and wants me to think about how everything connects. But I wasn't compelled to fanon it together. I would rather The Book of Boba Fett get a second season before this. And my hottest take that should surprise no one is give a spin-off of Acolyte to the animation team.

 

This episode is my favourite - I like how they don’t play things too safe storywise and are willing to add some dark twists e.g. the Jedi doing bad things and covering them up and the main protagonist turning to the dark side.

This is probably the best Star Wars series for giving the feeling of pretty much anyone could be killed off, something many other Star Wars projects have failed to do.

The Lightsaber fight was amazing, I hope they continue to carry on giving us these epic PT styled fights.

I’m made up to see Plagueis in live action, a Muun Sith Lord is a super cool concept and has long been worthy of an onscreen appearance.

I like how this series isn’t simplified to good vs evil, instead it throws a lot of grey into the mix to freshen things up.

I’m really excited for what could happen in a Season 2 I hope it gets renewed, but with a larger episode count with a longer runtimes.

 

But Mae and Osha are not monsters.

Without getting into it it’s unclear whether the show is supporting what Sol is saying or condemning his blind following of the rules he’s been taught about, as there’s clearly no Frankenstein monster he’s afraid of.

 

I hate to kind of diminish people's arguments here, but the show is about the Sith. "The Jedi are wrong" is a pretty obvious Sith sentiment. The show is basically from Osha's perspective by the end. Is it really bothering you that a show about the Sith is telling you the Jedi are wrong? Shouldn't that like... be the point? The Acolyte gave us more than enough information to process both sides of the argument, and understand the nuance of it, but it's lead character IS A SITH so of course the show leans more towards "Those darn evil jedi ruined everything!". Characters like Mae aren't going to be blamed for everything when Osha is supposed to be on her side. You have to take your own opinion out of the equation. You're watching characters who are purposely choosing the Darkside. They aren't going to make the morally just decision, and they aren't going to look at the nuance of the situation. You're watching Revenge of the Sith, except the show is about Anakin and it's focusing on his perspective. "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!" Here's their point of view.

Yes, we get it. In actuality there was a lot wrong that night. the Jedi tried to do the right thing. Bad things happened. But the surviving characters from season 1 aren't the Jedi and it's not about those characters redeeming themselves. The surviving characters are the Sith, and they have to think they're justified, because if they don't what the hell kind of Sith would they be?

We'll see what they do with Vernestra. I wouldn't be surprised if season 2 does a similar path. Qimir's recollection, followed by the more nuanced Vernestra account of his fall. But it doesn't matter, because Qimir is a bad guy and the show is leaning towards the bad guys interpretation of events because the show is about the bad guys. People have asked for shows/movies about the Sith for ages. Now we're getting it, and it's doing its best to explain why Sith might think the way they do, and everyone is running around shocked Pikachu face that the show about the Sith isn't depicting the Jedi as the greatest super saints in the universe. What'd you expect?

 

you can have a show about The Sith be about Sith and not make them be sympathetic, literally every horror film does this.
I don't go in to The Exorcist and think Pazuzu was right, he was busy sleeping until that pesky Regan girl had to wake him up playing with that board!

 

I liked the series overall, and enjoyed the finale. However, while I appreciate many of the criticisms that have been leveled here, I don't have a huge problem with either the writing or the characterizations of the flawed Jedi we see here. And I also don't really see any "canon-jeopardizing" events or elements in the series--Qimir is a dark force user for sure, and Vernestra and others know it. But for the Jedi to jump to "the Sith are back!"? Wouldn't that be sort of like a contemporary Chicago police officer capturing a mafioso and declaring "oh, no--Murder, Inc. is back!" The Sith have been gone for centuries at this point--it would be risible for someone to suggest they're back based on the "proof" at hand.

No, my major criticism of the show are the characterizations of Osha and Mae. Stenberg is a very likable and warm actress ("their" hug was deeply emotional and well-performed), but therein lies the problem: I had real difficulty with Mae as a ruthless assassin, and even more difficulty believing Osha would kill Sol. They both just come across as too likeable and nice, for huge stretches of the series.

 

Beautifully said!
But let those naysayers cope. Cope and seethe.

 

Personally, I don’t feel like the Jedi always need to be flawless heroes, nor do I think the Sith - particularly the apprentices - need to be maniacally evil.

But I feel like it’s Star Wars, there should be heroes. Whether that’s a Jedi, a smuggler, or a random citizen.

The only true heroes were people like Yord and Jecki that were killed in episode 5. Sol meant well but struggled with confronting his own selfishness. Osha sold out her convictions with minimal effort in episode 6. Mae did a partial good turn, but not enough to stop her sister from slowly strangling the life out of the guy Mae moments earlier stated that she wanted to face justice. It’s not elaborated in the show itself at all, but Lealye had revealed that the Acolyte was the pupil to the apprentice meant to help him overthrow the master. That is only hinted at best by the presence of Plagueis and the Rule of Two (which isn’t mentioned at all). Vernestra threw her friend under the bus in a political maneuver.

There just weren’t any good guys after episode 5.

I’m perfectly fine with the Jedi being portrayed as false heroes, or afraid of losing their power.

But the complete lack of a truly good character in a Star Wars story was novel, and I can’t say a good decision, IMO.


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It's catering to the sizable and vocal Reylo crowd - you want views, have social media circulate the shot of OSHA and Qimir holding hands and boom, another extra thousand views to the streaming numbers

 

You already have many other Star Wars movies and shows with these characters.

 

Thats not what she says. She said she anticipates that some of the fandom will see them as a married couple, or geek out that way. But ultimately its not going to be a happy ending for either of them - considering the Sith lineage.

She also subtlety referenced Romeo and Juliet, a pox on both their houses, and that didn't go well either for anyone.

 

So? That’s like saying it’s ok to make a Jurassic Park movie without dinosaurs because there’s already six films with them.

I would say that when you distill Star Wars down into its fundamentals, it’s a tale of heroes and villains. You’re already telling a Star Wars story without the backdrop of a war. Why deviate from the fundamentals even further by making everyone morally ambiguous?

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lol no it isn't.

That's not interesting anymore. It's time to shake things up with Star Wars.

 

I don’t see any happy ending between Qimir and Osha with Darth Plagusis being alive.

He can’t die yet.

If the Sith master was a more distant Sith, then there could have been a plot line of Qimir and Osha working together to kill the master and become the Sith of that time period.

But with the Sith infighting and the whole rule of two…that will eventually end in one of them killing the other.

 

I'm not into the romance at all. But it's at least more digestible than Reylo. And knowing that it ends in misery or failure, or more tragedy for both, is more exciting than some kind of 'who knows let's hope' that the story would take us.

That said, Qimir definitely wants Osha to help him over power DP. That's what Apprentices do. But that's not going to go the way he thinks. And Osha really made a bad deal here.

 

Whoever choreographed those lightsaber duels, I really hope they get him on a better written show one day. That Sol vs. Qimir duel was again damned cool.

Manny Jacinto certainly gave a break-out performance here. I love his interpretation of a Sith.

And otherwise I watch a show about a couple of people who think murder is kinda okay. I really didn’t root for anyone anymore. Which was kinda strange for Star Wars, which usually shines at giving us heroes we root for.

Anyway. Not a good show. Everything just happens because it shall. Clearly a writing team not up for the challenge, if you ask me. I mean the ONLY way in a huge huge galaxy to handle Mae is erasing her mind? Seriously? The Jedi blame Sol also Mae was already identified as the killer of several of the dead Jedi? If they had at least done the smart thing and blamed amnesiac Mae … Bazil changing sides to … yeah … who? Osha gets seduced to the dark side in two and a half scenes. I could go on … which I won’t. I won’t. I know I am half preaching the choir and the other half seems to have loved the show and will disagree with everything.

The shame is there is much good in the show. The actors are in large parts doing a great job with what they‘re given. Lightsaber fights were amazing. The basic idea of a murder hunt after a Jedi serial killer with the main Jedi personally connected to the killer and the reasons why he murders Jedi, was … great!

A shame they didn’t do more with it. In the end I watched a show about a lot of people who don’t care about people getting murdered. All doing their share of murder themselves. Four characters who should be brought to justice. And they expect me to root fo

I expect a higher quality standard from Star Wars, that’s all.

 

Well, we know Aniseya created life, but aren't exactly sure how, but it's some way that the Jedi would not like. Sol talks about vergences being capable of creating life. Plagueis could allegedly manipulate midichlorians to create life. The midichlorians are symbionts and Mae and Osha share the same symbionts which more so than DNA apparently makes them "the same person." Plagueis could also allegedly save the people he cared about from dying. Qimir's actor is 38 but Qimir talks about his time as a Jedi like it's ancient history. Leslye, in an interview, said that was something important to keep in your memory. Qimir is presumably Plagueis' apprentice and thus a candidate for someone that might receive an extended lifespan at the hands of Plagueis.

Either I think it will be established that Plagueis is responsible for the conception of the twins and the creation of an artificial vergence, or he just knew how to capitalize on it and used it to extend his own lifespan. If the twins themselves are the vergence, then maybe like Palpatine in RoS, Plagueis needs both of them back to be able to draw from the life force of that vergence to keep himself alive.

We know Qimir must be doomed to at least fail, if not die, in his attempt to overthrow Plagueis, but the twins might be important to Plagueis' power.

As an aside, I've heard people dismissing that this is too early in the timeline to involve Palpatine. But just like they introduced Ki-Adi-Mundi here and made Plagueis the Sith master decades earlier than he was in Legends, I see no reason why, especially if Qimir is proof of Plagueis extending an apprentice's lifespan that Palpatine might also be over 100 years old by the time of the PT but just doesn't appear so.