Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Yes, thank you. My issues with this on its own aside, I think this is way too rushed and bizarre of a way to set Doom up for Secrets Wars, which as you mentioned at its core is built around Doom trying to finally one-up Richards in the most grandiose way possible.

 

This honestly reeks of desperation and all around cynicism from Disney/Marvel Studios. When I first read about it yesterday, I honestly thought it was some sort of prank. Well, good luck

 

I hate you 3000

 

The vast majority of his problems refer to what we saw with B.A.R.F.

He is haunted by the death of his father and not reconciling. In Iron Man 1, that translates into the hedonist your saw. But when he learns Bucky killed his parents- specifically how he murdered his mother in cold blood, all he wants to do is kill Bucky. It's only because of Steve that he doesn't.

Ultron also takes a part of Stark. So this potential for darkness is always there in the films. It's those he cares about (Pepper, Rhodey, Happy) that keep him in the light.

Stane keeps him ignorant of what they are really doing with the company. Now imagine Tony went in eyes wide open?

There IS precedent to Tony Stark as Doctor Doom now with Jonathan Hickman's recent Ultimates run. So that could be where they took the idea.

The other option which would be amazing to see if they actually don't tie this to Tony at all. RDJ is an amazing actor so maybe he goes exactly like people mentioned with Oppenheimer. They do scar the face so he stays masked and we just never see him. As to him looking like the Tony of the sacred timeline? No different from what just happened with Deadpool & Wolverine. Unlikely, but a possibility still.

 

Whose to say that a long rivalry won't happen? Is 3 movies not enough?

 

My first guess. Feige made clear the F4 will be heavily involved in the the next 2 Avengers movie. So the logical conclusion ...

 

I legit thought it was a headline from The Onion when the news broke.

 

They already had a run years ago with Doctor Doom as (a) Iron Man, as well as one where Tony's personality was 'flipped' in one of the Big Events (AXIS) and basically became a villain. I'm willing to see what they do with it.

 

We’ll, he certainly announced something about the importance of Kang moving forward, this weekend…

Yeah. He’s not just a genius inventor and egocentric.

He is also skilled in Magic. Which we have never really seen associated with Stark, and the idea of actual Magic in the MCU was only recently introduced in WandaVision. He is that kind of magic, not Asgardian “what you call magic is our technology” or Doctor Strange’s quasi scientific kind. But the kind of Agatha Harkness and MoM Wanda.

He is also a dictator, who seems himself as a benevolent philosopher king, but is more like a North Korean cult of personality, but somewhere in Eastern Europe.

He’s a proto-Vader. A mechanical genius who practices dark sorcery and iron-willed ruler, a madman who thinks what he’s doing what is best but is so warped by ego.

Maybe they can still do that. But, I just imagined it coming naturally from the prime MCU universe… he can rise to a multiversal threat but starts with origins more on the level of Red Skull than yet another Multiverse variant. Someone who could arise naturally from the fallout of Sokovia in that region of MCU Europe. And someone who can then continue beyond the Multiverse Saga.

 

Isn't the first F4 movie supposed to take place in the 60s or something. With Avengers finally happening in current times. Maybe they are going for a decades-long feud after all.

 

It’s an alternate universe that’s 1960s mixed with sci-fi.

 

Right. But its still 1960s though ... right? Just in a different universe. They could still plant 40 years worth of feuding there. Maybe that'll seem a bit rushed ... but that could be the groundwork.

 

Doppelgangers in DC's live action Multiverse did this very thing. Routh as Superman and the Atom. Shipp as Barry Allen, Jay Garrick and Henry Allen. Downey as Tony and Victor works. Or Tony becoming Doom is like Reed becoming the Maker.

Precisely.

30 years ago, Kang changed Tony's past in order to make him a villain. So we could have a combination of stories here.

 

Hey, maybe we'll get Teen Tony the Avenger!

 

I just feel they’re going too strongly with the Multiverse angle. Not everything needs to be a variant.

I’m also thinking-hoping that when the Multiverse Saga “ends” then it will go back to tougher and less common interaction between universes, even if they all keep existing. So I’d like a Fantastic Four, Doctor Doom, and X-Men from the prime universe. Especially since the Dr. Strange movie created new lore that variants can’t live long in a separate universe (which is kind of stupid, and mostly not a threat in the other multiverse stories, and could perhaps be retconned, but still).

In the Infinity Saga, while the gems kept showing up, there wasn’t nearly as strong an emphasis on them in all movies. Iron Man, Thor, Captain America all dealt with the stones but weren’t so directly connected to them themselves. You could have Thor movies in similar theme and content without one of them being involved, for example, and his origin and his interaction with other heroes wasn’t so heavily dependent on them. The universe/multiverse shouldn’t feel small, but big and with these heroes sometimes meeting up with the big threats, and it’s hard to describe but this just makes a multiverse feel small, if that makes sense.

I’m also not a fan of multiverse and time travel and diverging-timeline stories in general, unless limited and done very right. And it started off well but then the execution fell in quality. And now comes to the same problem as the comics - with both everything very super-high-stakes while simultaneously no-stakes (and basically impossible to raise the stakes in future movies/sagas).

 

It's crazy that 3 movies over the course of 3 years would be considered "rushing it." We also don't even know that it's going to only be those movies for sure.

 

So what are the odds everyone loses in DD/SW and the entire following phases are just Battleworld stories for like 6 years until Avengers…7 i think?

 

It's odd that someone with as much love and knowledge of Marvel as Feige would misunderstand a character as important as Victor Von Doom so badly.







Given how great his animated depictions have been under Disney, I thought they would be the ones to finally give us the Doom we deserve. Maybe we will get that, but this is not the way I expected. Frankly, Doom should have been established already. There were plenty of opportunities to throw in background mentions of him and his country.

 

Bigger picture question…

It they “use up” not only Kang and Galactus and Beyonder but also Doctor Doom by the end of the Multiverse Saga… I had hoped Doom would be introduced now but be a bigger threat in future phases, a long-term villain, but that doesn’t seem to be happening… then who does that leave for big villains in the future? Would it just be Magneto (more of an antihero) and mutant villains, plus the supernatural villains if they lean more into the Werewolf-by-Night/Agatha/Blade/MoonKnight/etc. stuff?

 

Apocalypse
Annihilus
I expect Kang will return, I'm not sure why they've pivoted away from him when it's so easy to re-cast