TV Discussion The Future of Star Wars on TV

Not to nitpick, but the last thing George Lucas was working on before the sale was the sequel trilogy

I would also say that things get cut for a reason. Just because someone was working on something at some point, doesn't mean that it was supposed to be included in the final version. It's like adding the Droid planet to KOTOR II again. Sure, there are some minor parts here and there, but it was cut early enough to know for sure that it was not part of what the final game was supposed to look like. There is plenty of stuff that fell to the wayside during the development of Star Wars. ROTS saw Padme's entire opposition to Palpatine arc be removed. It was all fully shot, but Lucas decided the movie needed a different focus. The same thing applies to tv-shows. Just because an arc was in development at some point, doesn't mean it was meant to be finished. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out, sometimes it's not a good fit to other material. There can be contradictions between thoese storylines, or some bits may be phased into a different storyline.

Nor would it make much sense to finish it "because it is the last thing Lucas was working on", when Lucas wouldn't be the one who is working on it now. No matter how much Filoni may have been a pupil of Lucas, he is NOT Lucas. You wouldn't get the story Lucas was working on, you would get the story of someone else, who may or may not have much of an idea what Lucas was really aiming for.

 

This point needs to be repeated more; it often gets overlooked by those who praise Filoni.

 

I think Clone Wars is really the only Star Wars show outside of the Tales of that could run in theory forever because of its anthology nature.

What's Coleman Kcaj up to in the war? What's the full story of why Death Watch broke from the CIS? There is a lot of stuff that they never really touched on.

 

That's not what this was. This was three or four planned seasons getting cancelled because corporations think that's what new owners should do. They got to finish a few arcs and later came back to do a couple more, but the series was never completed and that has nothing whatsoever to do with creative processes.

 

Is that something anyone actually wants, for any tv series?

 

If we are ever going to get another series about clones…..

I would prefer Republic Commando adaption. We haven’t seen much of the Clone Commandos during the Clone Wars, compared to Legends material.

Yes we got the Bad Batch, but we saw little of them during the Clone Wars.

Imagine a series revolving around Delta Squad beginning on Day 1 of the war. Get to see Phase 1 armor in updated animation, etc…

 

Enough of clones pls.. we can revisit them later. Lets do something else. Like jedi on the run that has Ventress and the path or Luke and Ben or High Republic.

 

I would like to get a series about Elan Sleazebaggano and how he rethought his life and became a galaxy-famous interior designer.

 

Everybody who was anybody had their home done in the sleazebag style for a while.

 

He created the Empire’s pill-shaped lighting design. It was revolutionary.

 

And he has wonderful family in canon

 

You don't rally plan three or four seasons ahead. You may have some general ideas of what you could do, but that's about it. Just because there were plenty of ideas, doesn't mean that they always would have been made. There was plenty of material for the tv-show Lucas originally planned to make, before he opted not to make it at all. Andor got condensed from five to two seasons and not because they couldn't have thought of material to work with. There are plenty of things to consider when creating a show.

Unless specifically planned from beginning to end right from the get go, which barely ever happens, shows don't get "completed". You just go with stuff until someone decides the show is over now. Until you get that message you try and think of further ideas. The Clone Wars wouldn't have been completed just because they would have done all these arcs. Instead you just would have seen further basic ideas for other arcs.

 

Ahem. The term is Sleazebag Chic.

 

Quite right. My apologies.

 

But these weren't just vague ideas. Kashyyyk, Bounty Hunters, Utapau, and Dark Disciple Part I were very far along in production. There are finished animatics and voice work for these story arcs. Son of Dathomir and Dark Disciple Part II were fully scripted with concept artwork & other materials prepared.

We don't know how much work was done on the 'Top Gun', Vong, Sith Temple, and Mon Cala arcs. I consider them to be less essential for a reason. While I'd love to see them, I think the six arcs mentioned first are critical parts of the story - and also happen to have been pretty far along in production. They wouldn't be starting from scratch or returning to some vague outline of a story. They weren't scrapped because plans change or because they decided to take things a different direction. Were it not for the sale of Lucasfilm, these episodes would have definitely seen the light of day.

I would also say that despite there not being much material released for the other unfinished arcs, there is probably something more than a 'vague concept' behind the scenes as they had actual production codes attached to those episodes. We know that Clone Wars episodes were in fact planned very far in advance. At the time the company was sold, season 5 was currently airing on Cartoon Network.

Arcs already in production up to at least the animatic / voice stage at the time of the sale:

1) Order 66 (4 Episodes)
2) Clovis / Padme (3 Episodes)
3) The Disappeared (2 Episodes)
4) Yoda's Journey (4 Episodes)
5) Utapau (4 Episodes)
6) Bad Batch (4 Episodes)
7) Kashyyyk (4 Episodes)
8) Bounty Hunters (4 Episodes)
9) Dark Disciple Part I (4 Episodes)

That's 33 episodes in the production pipeline up to at least the animatic / voice stage. The Utapau arc has been fully released in rough animatic form on Youtube and the Season 6 blu ray / dvd. We've seen full scenes from Bounty Hunters, Kashyyyk, and Dark Disciple Part I. These arcs already exist - they're just not finished & released and resultantly, the story of The Clone Wars feels incomplete.

1) Dark Disciple Part II
2) Ahsoka's Walkabout
3) Son of Dathomir

We know that these arcs were fully scripted with extensive production materials produced; that's another 12 episodes. More than 2 full seasons worth of material very far along in production at the time season 5 was airing.

The arcs which, as far as we can tell, were more of a rough concept:

1) Yuuzhan Vong
2) Return to Mon Cala
3) Sith Shrine / Temple
4) Rex / R2 'Top Gun'
5) Siege of Mandalore

Of these 5 arcs, which likely would have comprised the final season, they actually did complete Siege of Mandalore, largely from scratch in terms of production. With that said, despite details being changed, the Ahsoka novel suggests that Dave had more than a vague notion of what the show's final arc would have contained.

You have to remember the selection process for which arcs were included in seasons 6 & 7. Season 6 contains everything that was the furthest along. If they were given more time / money, Bounty Hunters, The Bad Batch, and Utapau would almost certainly have been included. Dark Disciple Part I, likely not because they hadn't started Dark Disciple Part II. At the time, there was likely no indication that they'd ever be allowed to complete more episodes in the future. Son of Dathomir was released as a comic because it was so crucial to Maul's story. The arc was fully planned, but they hadn't reached the production stage yet, so it was out of the running for season 6.

Season 7 was really only designed to give closure to Ahsoka and set up her future in Star Wars. Which, don't get me wrong, is great, because Ahsoka is easily one of my favorite Star Wars characters. The Bad Batch arc had already been released in rough animatic form, but was released in finished form to set up the upcoming Bad Batch series. It had the added effect of making season 7 more squarely focused on Rex and Ahsoka. Dave even said that they considered other arcs like Dark Disciple and Son of Dathomir, but wanted the season to focus in on Ahsoka / Rex, which makes sense as they were the two original characters created for the show whose arcs had already been continued in Rebels. For that reason, Siege of Mandalore was selected despite other arcs like Kashyyyk, Bounty Hunters, Utapau, and Dark Disciple I being much farther along in development. The Walkabout arc was also reworked / rewritten a bit to lead directly into Siege of Mandalore rather than the Sith Shrine / Temple arc.

Son of Dathomir and Dark Disciple had also already been released in some form, so they probably felt there was at least some way to know how Maul and Ventress's stories resolved, making those arcs less essential.

All that is to say, these arcs weren't scrapped because they decided to take things a different direction. They aren't vague concepts that never materialized. They are episodes which were very far along in production, but were never completed because the show was cancelled following a corporate merger. They weren't included in the two later batches of finished episodes because other arcs simply took precedent. But they are nevertheless still important in my view.

EDIT: I also will push back against the claim that the show's completion doesn't hinge on these remaining arcs. Siege of Mandalore was very much being written as a series finale from the get-go. As in the finished episodes, it was always intended to lead directly into Revenge of the Sith. In this case, there was a very clear endpoint for The Clone Wars. We even generally know the production codes / episode order for everything that would have comprised seasons 6, 7, and 8 - leading up to the end of The Clone Wars. The unfinished arcs I described as 'essential' are those which would complete a specific character's arc or journey within The Clone Wars timeline. Dark Disciple for Ventress, Son of Dathomir for Maul, Kashyyyk for Yoda and The Bad Batch, Utapau for Anakin & Obi-Wan, Bounty Hunters for Boba Fett. Without these arcs, there are notable gaps or holes in these character's storylines. Arguably Utapau is the least essential as Obi-Wan and Anakin get lots of time to shine in Revenge of the Sith, A New Hope, etc. But at the same time, it's the only Obi-Wan / Anakin centric arc post-Ahsoka's departure and helps bridge the series to the relationship we see in Revenge of the Sith so from that standpoint alone I think it's an important arc to finish. Not to mention, everything is complete exept for the final animation. There have been direct references to or continuation from the events in Dark Disciple, Son of Dathomir, Kashyyyk, and Bounty Hunters, so from that perspective alone those arcs should be completed. The Dark Disciple novel doesn't even line up with Ventress in Bad Batch as she's actually alive now. Maul was captured at the end of season 5 and then free again in season 7. While Clone Wars often told its anthology stories out of chronological order, it never left such glaring holes without later filling them in with a later story arc. From that perspective, there is already precedent to release more episodes classified as 'Lost Missions' as season 6 was originally titled.

 

This is just wishfull thinking now

 

All I'm saying is that, the axed Clone Wars episodes weren't just vague or rough plans. Some are very far along in development. They're also essential parts of the story, which deserve to be completed. This isn't a case of 'plans change' or 'ideas were condensed'. They are fully fleshed out ideas very far into production which were cancelled due to a corporate merger. Just because Ahsoka and Rex got their closure through season 7 doesn't make some of the other unfinished arcs any less important.

I'm not entirely unrealistic in that I have already stated my belief that some arcs, as interesting / cool as they might be and as much as I'd still love to see them made, aren't 'essential'. The Rex / R2 'Top Gun' arc, the 'Return to Mon Cala' arc, the Yuuzhan Vong arc, and the Sith Shrine arc are all really cool ideas. I'll always be at least a little bummed that they weren't finished. But at the same time, it's ground we don't absolutely need to cover.

Bounty Hunters, Kashyyyk, Dark Disciple, Son of Dathomir, and Utapau need to be finished.

 

Could make for some Tales of Clone Wars shorts

 

I think the tales of Series has pretty much replaced anymore Clone Wars.

 

Any clone wars arc could be in Tales.

The big animations Coming in future, will be elsewhere.

 

I think it would take more work to rework them as shorts. Many of them are already very far in development. What's the point in condensing down 88 minutes of animation to 15? Just call it 'Lost Missions'. Or just make them animated movies (not theatrical). Sure, you can call it 'tales of', but the bottom line is, these are episodes of Clone Wars which are very far along in production which should be finished in roughly the same form, whatever name they might be called.

The Tales of shows are good. But it doesn't need to be either or. There are a finite number of Clone Wars episodes still unfinished. I just think we should finish the thing that was unfinished before moving onto the next big thing. Finish the thing that was cancelled because of a corporate merger.

 

Finished or unfinished, I’m beyond tired of that era, that conflict, and those characters. Maybe if they put it all on a shelf for a few years I might change my mind, but TCW has dominated the tv side for so long I’m glad it’s done.

 

Quick note, but Ahsoka's Walkabout also had complete animatics before the cancellation. Though there was some rework with Trace, Rafa, Maul's small appearance, and the Mandalorians, it wasn't all that much change in the bigger picture. From concept art and model sheets it's clear that the entire plot structure is more or less identical between the 2012/13/ animatics and the 2020 finished episodes. Certain character beats were tweaked, and obviously Nyx was altered entirely, but everything else stayed more or less the same. Episodes like Sphere of Influence (which switched major locations and went from a prequel to Trespass to a Sequel in subsequent cuts) in Season 3 went through far greater shifts between the animatics and airing episode.

Kashyyyk's animatics were uncomplete in some form (whether partway through an episode, or cut off neatly at the end of one of the four episodes), and like a few others probably only had temporary voice acting (compared to Utapau or Bad Batch, which had complete vocal recording in the can).
Son of Dathomir was in the process of having 3D assets and character models created, the latest of which was March 2013 (the last known date of active production on the show), some of which were retooled in Rebels and Bad Batch. Everything after that (the entirety of Season 8/Production Season 7) was in draft script and concept art stages.

I still think it's quite baffling the way some of the unfinished arcs have been treated by other works. They keep referencing and calling back to events with which the production crew is clearly familiar with and treats as canon, yet refuse to actually dramatise those events or seems content to leave them to adaptations in other media, leaving an incomplete ending to TCW. Cad Bane's rivalry with Boba only exists in two animatic clips and a plot we can barely guess at but formed the major crux of a live-action finale. Ventress' previous death was retained as a fact of her continuing story. Maul's enmity with Sidious is resolved offscreen and mentioned once with Saxon and Kast. I suppose you can slightly compare it to the way Siege of Mandalore references were dropped in Rebels, but that was at a time when there was seemingly less goodwill towards high budget Star Wars animation and no proven desire for more Clone Wars. It was also smoothed over by the lengthy time-gap between those events and the fact it wasn't the only thing motivating Ahsoka, Rex, or Maul by the time of Rebels, although it still hurt to have that missing link.

None of these potential Season 7 arcs seem to contradict any stories Star Wars has told since, something that isn't true of Season 8 arcs like Sith Shrine, which was neatly snipped out of existence and its ideas reused partially in Rebels anyway, or the Kashyyyk arc which got a condensed adaptation in Bad Batch, but that was always the most standard sounding Season 7 arc to me at least and I was happy with seeing elements of it used the way they were. For most of the important arcs (bar Dark Disciple part 2) the only parts still left to be completed were the final animation and music, and in some cases voice acting too. Not small aspects I know, but the scripting, concept design, asset creation, direction and composition, they were done. That's surely a better springboard than starting from scratch.

Dark Disciple alone would make an excellent 8-part miniseries, with easy marketing draw from the big Clone Wars player. Son of Dathomir too, which fills a critical gap in the plot of the show, the fate of a major antagonist, and on a basic level would just be the easiest thing in the world to point to and say 'this is really cool, look at this'. With the Bane/Boba arc, also filled with fan favourite characters, wrapping up two of their major storylines and setting up a few minor bits for Dark Disciple (Boba's armour, leading the group of Bounty Hunters more directly) you could have a legitimate 'anti-heroes' theming to a season of 16 episodes (the same amount as Bad Batch's season lengths). Call it Clone Wars: Dark Side or something like that. It would finally tie off every outstanding plotline, rely on already partially completed work that's been proven to be a hit in other mediums, and probably justify itself as a standalone project despite the show already having a finale. It's not like The Clone Wars wasn't used to telling it's stories out of order..

 

I get it but unfortunately the thing there are still stories in the Clone War series that need to come out. It's not only because GL worked on them its because ever since Disney erased the prior canon, there are stories that have been left lacking. I also like things complete, I don't like things left in the middle without resolution. It just makes for bad business if you ask me.