ST Luke Skywalker/Mark Hamill Discussion Thread [SEE WARNING ON PAGE 134]

Plus, we already saw that in SW.

Luke thought his father was his hero. He started out avenging him. Then he actually met him and realized he was a monster. Then he redeemed him.

So once again, it's nothing really new, being claimed as 'new'.

In fact, the never meet your heroes would have worked better for Kylo who worships the dark side and is searching for meaning and mentorship. He could have finally found Snoke, or "Vader", or whatever, only for it to turn out to disappoint him or realize it's Palpatine All Along. Leading him to take over the FO or ... go back to the light in some way.

But Rey. Rey should have met the real deal Luke. He could have been something far different than what she expected though, in much the same way that Yoda defies Luke's expectations when he meets his mentor.

 

Richard Lester was able to walk the fine line of irreverence and mythmaking in both Robin & Marian and his Musketeer films. It didn't work with Superman II. One reason might be the audience itself and it's attachment to the mythos. Robin Hood & the Three Musketeers audience isn't as dedicated or as close to the material as Superman's, I could say the same about Star Wars. Johnson took a similar role as Lester to a rabid fanbase and they did not appreciate it. They would have preferred the reverence that Richard Donner gave Superman.

I agree with your take on ESB & TLJ. ESB borders on melodrama and it might be the reason why Pauline Kael liked it so much compared to the other OT films. Johnson went in the exact opposite direction and I think he relished in pulling out the rug from the audience repeatedly. I don't think he was going exactly for the "don't meet your heroes" but more of the man vs myth. Rose has this grand image of Finn before she ever met him. She looks at him more in awe than when Rey thought he was with the Resistance. Yet it wasn't real. She gets to know him through their side adventures and falls for him when he starts living up to that image she had of him. I thought there was going to be a love triangle like the one set up in ANH & ESB, similarly it was dismissed in the follow up film.

In TFA Han & Luke have achieved mythic status and Han actually lives up to that image to Rey and Finn. In TLJ Luke doesn't, yet he gains it again by saving the Resistance when it seems all hope is lost. The heroes of the ST get to see the myths being made with their own eyes. They aren't hearing stories, they're part of them. In this sense Leia also achieves the same in the scene many people hate. We'll never know what could have been with Leia due to Fisher's untimely death.

To me the ST feels like it was a few rewrites away from getting it right. There were seeds of great stuff there but a lot of missed opportunities. There are still many things I enjoy about it but I wish it were better. It probably would have helped to be on the 3 year time window like the OT & PT but that's asking a lot from Disney. Had the ST been filmed a decade earlier I think the story would be vastly different considering the ages of the OT cast. Yet for all its faults I still find it miles ahead of the PT.

 

I think ESB is doing this theme primarily for the characters themselves in the story, and because we are properly invested in our protagonist, it works for us as well.

Growing up, Luke believed he that his father wasn't really all that important. Then he was told that he that he was this Jedi Hero. It was his motivation for becoming a Jedi himself. That all works beautifully. And then when its revealed that Vader is his father, the audience is shocked too. We don't want to believe it. Not because of our notion of Anakin doesn't really line up with some conception in our heads, but because everything we've been told is a lie. Same for Luke, our protagonist. So in this story, we are following Luke, and feeling the same things he's feeling. Shock. Horror. Betrayal. We have empathy for what he's going through, since we're going through it the same.

Meanwhile, TLJ's 'don't meet your heroes' is aimed squarely on the fans of the OT, and our own ideas of what Luke 'should' be like this time period. It's not really about him failing, per se, but what kind of character that we finally get to meet 30 years later. It's earth-shattering to us, watching it, because Luke is so different in character to what we expected. This was done on purpose. But not to Rey. Because while he was our hero for the past few decades, she barely knew he was a real person. She's thought he was this myth. A bed time story 'hero' for kids. Myths are always going to be a bit ... unreal. She's never really known the prior version. She had disappointment that Luke isn't what was in those stories, and mainly because he wouldn't help her, but its not as shocking as it is for us watching it.

The whole thing is a meta play. Rey is acting as audience surrogate. But we don't really feel the things she's going through. She is trying to feel the things the audience is feeling, and it comes up kind of empty. Rey recites Luke's history and how he saved his father, as if she watched the movies like we did. None of that really makes sense for someone who's legend apparently blew up in the galaxy and was something that he couldn't live up to though. This is why having Leia and Han reunite with Luke may have made more sense in this regard. Because they knew the former.

This is why the trope may have worked better, in the narrative and the characters, for Kylo. He set out on the dark side yearning to be like his hero, Darth Vader, instead of the Jedi who was mentoring him. He's been wanting to speak with him (essentially meet him) for most of his life. He even hears voices believing its Vader. None of it should make sense and it should tip off alarm bells in his head. But it doesn't.

So TLJ, or TROS, should have been about Kylo finally hearing or meeting Vader. He finally gets his moment. He'll finally get his questions answered. His training could be complete. A nice talk with his hero. And then he meets him. A Vaderish ghostly image appears (like we saw in Ahsoka). He hears a strange robotic voice. Heavy breathing. And it tells him "let go of your hatred". More breathing. Kylo is confused. That doesn't make sense. The voice continues talking. It changes. Softens. Becomes more human. The visage before him finally takes shape ... it's Anakin. Not Vader. And Anakin explains that it wasn't weakness that sent him to the light. But it was strength. And it took all that strength to finally let go of his obsessions and desires. To resist the dark side's seduction. And to save his son. And now he wants to help Ben.

But this doesn't land well with Kylo. This isn't his hero who he's built up in his head for decades. It's the truth. Same as Luke had to deal with a shocking truth by Vader/Anakin. But instead, Kylo grows angry. Rejects Anakin's pleas and offer to help him. He now feels utter disappointment. Enraged. He flees.

And that could have led to interesting stories. Is his hatred fueled by this revelation? Does he use to to kill Snoke and take his place as Master. Or does it start to open the cracks in the armor. Does it lead to confusion and conflict that can later be used by his family to get him back. Or does he go down fully to the dark side.

 

Right. She meant to be the audience even tho her character and history don’t match our own history with this universe. So there’s a major disconnect and one of the reasons why Rey had to even ask what is her place in the story and why they had to graft Palpatine and Skywalkers name on to her.

Without it the character is a void.

 

@godisawesome


I'm not sure I completely agree with your take on Luke in the Original Trilogy. A classic romantic/adventure hero? Sure. Yet, he wasn't presented as particularly mythic or legendary during those films - he was shown as a flesh and blood human character with real struggles and vulnerabilities.

Throughout the OT, Luke consistently fails and faces challenges - needing rescue in the Death Star trash compactor, getting beaten by Vader, and even in Return of the Jedi being captured by Ewoks and nearly losing to the Emperor. His growth is gradual and earned through his experiences. He displays genuine emotional vulnerability throughout the trilogy, with raw reactions to learning Vader is his father or seeing his friends in pain.
Even in Luke's most impressive moments, like his "badass Jedi mode" in Jabba's palace/barge, he's still fallible, making mistakes and having to rely on his human grit to adjust plans.

What's happened is that Luke became mythologized after the original films. The expanded universe novels, comics, and games portrayed him as increasingly powerful and wise beyond what we saw in the films. Over decades, fans built up idealized versions of Luke as a nearly unbeatable Jedi Master. Look at his appearance in The Mandalorian - he's shown as a nearly unstoppable force effortlessly cutting through Dark Troopers. This isn't the Luke we saw in the OT; this is Luke in superhero mode.

What The Last Jedi actually does is acknowledge this mythologization while attempting to reconnect with the human Luke. His final act of force projection isn't just "insubstantial" - it's choosing a non-violent solution that saves lives while inspiring others, aligning with his character arc in Return of the Jedi.

I think your argument mistakes the fan-created mythic Luke (developed over decades) for the actual character presented in the Original Trilogy. TLJ's "subversion" is actually an attempt to reconnect with the human character beneath the legend that grew around him.

 

Most of the classic mythic human characters also had struggles and vulnerabilities. Most of them make mistakes or fail, and have to overcome these qualities or events and 'rise back up' in order for them to 'win' or succeed. Same as the 'gods' for that matter too.

But remember. That while Star Wars uses myth and mythology, its also a fairy tale as well, as uses those narrative cues and characters too.

I don't think Luke was mythologized after the OT. His powers grew due to an increase in demand for more stories and so ... lack of creative writing that often brings about more power because its an easy answer. Look at what's happened to Superman over time. His powers grow and wane as they get to be 'too much'.

But in universe RJ gets the mythology of Luke wrong. We're told that Luke's legend became so great that that he couldn't live up to it.

How? Where?

When Rey - who the day before meeting Luke - thought he was nothing more than 'myth', or a bedtime story told to children to inspire them, she gets his story exactly correct. There's no embellishment. No exaggeration. There's no 'fish tale' aspect that one would expect IF Luke's legend had grown to some unrealistic story that he couldn't realistically live up to. Or that he had a hard to meeting because everyone's expectations where so grand that it was impossible to meet the heroics in those tales. If Rey had heard a legend of Luke tale, that was not based on what really happened, it should have been like "And then you used the power of the Force and made the sun explode, and you chucked the Emperor into the DS reactor and force levitated Vader back to Tattooine where you repaired his body using the Force and then you rebuilt the Jedi Order with Vader as a teacher.

That's what a growing unrealistic legend looks like.

And it's not like TLJ comes along as say those things that took place in the OT (that we all watched) didn't actually happen. That those were just legends and tales that were blown up and the REAL person Luke was far different. That he didn't do things things because those were just blown up stores told among the galaxy. That could have been interesting, I suppose, but in order for that kind of story to work, it would mean that the saga wasn't 'real' in universe and what we were watching for the past 7 episodes was nothing more than the actual ben time stories that Rey heard about.

No. Instead Rey knows exactly what had happened. There's no falsehood embellishment.

So what was so hard to live up to for Luke? From what we can see ... nothing. It's all just made up meta nonsense. RJ wants to tell that story, the one above where the OT is a myth and all that stuff from the EU - that some fans think is impossible for a 'real person to live up to - actually happened. Even though Disney made sure it didn't. And even though none of that stuff was TLJ's history. That's what he's interested in telling. Unfortunately that's not the saga story that he's playing in and so there's a major disconnect between what he's presenting as historical explanation and what's happening on screen.

 

@DarkGingerJedi

I think you're mixing up "having struggles" with "not being mythic," which misses what we're really talking about here.

Look, Luke wasn't presented as some larger-than-life legend within the OT - he was just a relatable guy who happened to do extraordinary things. His mythologization happened after the movies ended, through all those novels, comics, and years of fan discussions that gradually turned him into this perfect, all-powerful Jedi Master.

You actually make my point when you mention Rey knowing Luke's story. Remember in TFA when she literally says "I thought he was a myth"? That's proof he'd already become a legend in-universe. TLJ isn't claiming people made up fake stories about Luke bench-pressing Star Destroyers. It's about how his real accomplishments created expectations he couldn't live up to as a flawed human being.

Think about it - when Luke had his moment of weakness with Ben Solo, the crushing weight wasn't just "I failed my nephew." It was "I'm LUKE SKYWALKER, the guy who saved Vader, and I just considered killing my sleeping nephew for a second." The gap between the legend and his very human mistake is what broke him.


@godisawesome

You're right that Star Wars mixes genres like crazy...a huge reason I love it.... but I think you're missing what TLJ is actually critiquing. It's not saying "cool Force powers are bad" - it's asking questions about what heroism really means.

When Luke makes that snarky "laser sword" comment, he's not saying such things are impossible. He's challenging whether violence and direct confrontation are the right Jedi approach. Remember how Luke won in ROTJ? Not by beating the Emperor in a lightsaber duel, but by throwing away his weapon and choosing compassion.

Yes, Rey lifts rocks and Holdo pulls off that crazy maneuver, but these aren't contradictions. Luke's final act - projecting himself across the galaxy - is arguably MORE impressive than either of those! The difference isn't what they did but why they did it.

Luke faces down the First Order without throwing a single punch or swing - he embodies true Jedi philosophy. The film isn't saying "heroic feats are lame" - it's showing us that the most heroic act can be one that doesn't involve violence at all.

I think the film's message isn't "superhero stuff is bad" but rather "what makes a hero isn't power, it's how you use it." Far from diminishing him, Luke's final act is probably the most spectacular Force feat we've seen in the saga to that point, but it's meaningful because he uses it to save lives rather than take them.

 

Bolded. You know...we are NOT the movie right? Luke might have been over-powered in the EU, if one wants to argue that, and mythologized in our fiction and pop-culture, but that's not what happened in universe. Us reading the comics and books in 1980s and 90s on Earth, isn't the story. Our history is not his history.

Rey believes that Luke's history and actual adventures are "myths", because she hasn't seen them firsthand. Its like Han believing that the Force is just parlor tricks in ANH, because he too, never came around a Jedi in all his travels. Its all sounds preposterous to believe it's real. But it is, all of it.

Rey recites Luke's 'legend', but it's the real deal as it happened. The stories passed on to her, were non-fiction. Not 'myths'. Not even over-blown legends. Rey believes they must be myths, because she lives on a desolate hopeless world. And despite there being star destroyers rotting in the sand, she is so hopeless that hearing actual non-fictional stories about Luke, seem unreal to her.

Luke says that the now that the Jedi are extinct, people romanticize them and don't see their failures, nor the truth about how they allowed Sidy to rise to power, how they trained Vader, or went extinct. He's saying the galaxy, is ignorant, and passes on stories that aren't totally true. That they only see the good stuff. They don't know about the bad. And there's lots of bad.

How? They went extinct for a reason. In fact, most of the normal people we come across in the OT, living during those times, thought they were silly old wizards. Jesus, some of the Moffs even mock Vader. To his face. Who they view as the last of their kind. They certainly don't seem to have some mistaken view on things. To them the Jedi are pathetic losers. Or as Han believes, they were charlatans. Very few of them seem to have this erroneous romantic view of the Jedi as perfect beings, up on some high mythic perch.

But that's OUR view. As you demonstrate it up top. It's us, the fans, who have this view of the Jedi and of Luke. (Well, at least that's what RJ and you are arguing)

But of course, Luke is telling us this, because it relates to his own supposed 'myth'. He tells us that he too failed and couldn't live up to a romanticized view of his own history. But how? Where's the romanticized view in Rey's telling of him? It's nonexistent. She tells it like it is. I mean, she can literally see his chopped off hand. She knows what went down. Even the parts she didn't get around to mentioned. After all, she saw the movies. She's heard the tales as they happened.

If anything, judging by what he tells Rey, its Luke who has this cynical 'anti-romanticized' view of things. He thinks the Jedi are responsible for Vader, when they weren't. He thinks he's responsible for creating Kylo, and he's not. (Even though he also refuses to take responsibility for 'creating' him, and lies about it in his telling of those events to Rey, out of shame. Instead he just ran off, taking no responsibility for his actions.)

It's Luke with the mythicized viewpoint of the Jedi and his own history. And Rey, and everyone else, has the realistic take. In fact, again, no one in-universe, seems to think that Luke was perfect, or needed to be perfect. His sister certainly wasn't demanded he be perfect. She just wanted her brother to help. Same as always. And no one thought he was without flaws. (I would argue that fans didn't either, despite your take on things up top. He failed plenty in the EU too. No one thought he was a perfect being)

This is where the inconsistency lies.

What RJ (and you) is trying to tell us, isn't what actually is happening on screen, nor is it what takes place in prior movies. Its fine for Luke to feel as though he failed. Its also fine for him to have grown arrogant after EP 6 in the belief that only he could train Ben. That all checks out.

What's not fine is this insistence on the legend around Luke being mythic. Or somehow misinformed. It wasn't. Luke just couldn't live up to his own imperfect standards. The standards he set in the OT. Its he who has the wrong mindset. Not the galaxy. Not even his legend or fame.

It's he who simply believes that he can't do it. Because he's pitying himself. None of he what he says is true. And as we find out, he isn't even a reliable witness to his own history. He simply cannot be trusted in TLJ.

 

Of course, Luke also only passes on the good stuff to Ben, just as he criticizes the galaxy doing about the Jedi and himself. He says that the galaxy had rose colored glasses on, but that's what he decided to do with Ben's teachings. In his arrogance he only passed on the 'perfect' Jedi stuff. The failures were kept off the syllabus. Which is why -apparently because this isn't even in the movie - that Luke and Leia didn't teach Ben that Anakin was Vader, and he learned this revelation from Snoke.

So again. It's not the galaxy who has this view of the Jedi as being perfect. We just have an unreliable witness and teacher, who's so self-centered and pitying himself, that he's blaming the galaxy for the bias and failures that HE himself has had.

And what's even worse, is that the movie presents us with the idea that failure teaches Luke his final lesson, when of course that BS. It's Yoda who shows up and teaches Luke that final lesson. Failure taught Luke the wrong lesson. It taught him to hide and to have a cynical view of the galaxy and of himself.

But even this isn't well done. Because what does Luke do with this new, righted, belief? That's right? He shows up on Crait, with a false projection of himself, a legendary mask covering up all the imperfection, and mistakes, and failures, to taunt his nephew and say things like "every word you just said is wrong'. If Luke had really learned anything, and the movie was consistent with itself, Luke should have shown up looking like an absolute failure. who could finally offer Ben the truth - that he was an imperfect teacher, with in an imperfect Jedi Order. He could have offered up a real apology, instead of an empty one, spoken by a person who is literally lying to him as he speaks about truth. It's no wonder that Ben is angry with him.

Everything Luke keeps saying is wrong and inconsistent with the saga story. Nothing Luke says is close to accurate. Not even "Today the rebellion is reborn. For the war is just starting". No! No it is not. Its been going for at least 6 years with the FO. It's been going on for decades against the Sith. This is the 8th episode. The war is hardly just starting. Nor is this event, somehow, at long last, Luke's greatest accomplishment or destiny that he's finally fullfilling.

And lastly, how does Luke follow Yoda's wisdom, or his request that 'they can't lose her', or his own fears that "he can't be what she needs'. How does this all resolve? That's right. He never even talks to her again, and then up and dies. Alone. When he didn't even need to. His passing on has nothing to do with Rey, as Obi-wan becomes one with the Force in order to be with Luke, always. Nope. Rey gets trained by Leia (which is bizarre since CF passed away. They'd rather use a dead actress; outtakes, and more digital fakery, than hire a living MH to play a still living Luke. Insane). And then, randomly, when Rey returns to Ahch-to (because as a Ghost he can't leave that place), he shows up to tell that that they always knew that she was a Palpatine.

This trilogy is horrifically written.

 

This is a staple of Star Wars going back to ROTJ. Lucas chose not to have Obi-Wan offer a sincere apology to Luke and instead came up with a certain point of view. It was horse**** then and it's horse**** now. I don't expect genuine apologies in the GFFA.

 

What?!? What a desperate attempt to defend poor writing.

Nope. Thats not really the same thing. And maybe since Luke didn’t like being lied to by a mentor …he wouldn’t do it to his own student.

And maybe in a story about lies and the rose colored myths the movie would try to rectify that mistake by fixing it. That’s what it says is happening. Literally it’s about passing on failures as mush as success because the hard truth teaches us important lessons too

Instead the movie faked it and only pretend it does with more lies and trying to be perfect.

 

Everything you describe there is an arc. An arc that was not applied to the lead of the ST may I add. But in Luke we see how you do a character arc across 3 films, his growth and progression. So its good to see that you acknowledge how well it worked.

But the films can only show so much, they finally end with him becoming a Jedi Knight and beating the seemingly all powerful Darth Vader – no mean feat that. He's progressed to become strong, but not strong enough yet to take on the Emperor, I mean why would he be anyway? But surely its natural that the books set after Jedi progress Luke even further? After all hes the last Jedi and taking over from Yoda to all intents and purposes. Passing on what he has learned as Yoda instructed him to do.

When we get to see him in Mando again I think it’s a natural progression. We've already seen the Jedi battling droids in previous films and cartoons and using the force with destructive consequences. So is it really that much of a step to see Luke defeating droids too? I don't think it is. The assumption is that hes clearly mastered the force and the lightsaber even more so through whatever teachings hes had or found since the end of ROTJ. Plus we get the added bonus that hes now searching for students, hes taking on the mantle of a Jedi teacher and a master from Yoda. A natural progression.

But ultimately I don't think that this version of Luke we see briefly in Mando is a portrayal that relies on comics and books to fill in the blanks. He's just doing what we have already seen other Jedi doing before him and he's also doing what Yoda asked him to do. Pass on what you have learned.

I have a massive issue with the ending and this force power, I just don't like the force projection thing. I don’t like how convenient it is for certain plot points and I certainly don't like the way Luke went out either. I think it takes force powers too far for my taste. But that’s just me.

We know Luke as the hero after ROTJ, so to see this version of him in the ST is jarring. Did anyone really expect Luke to be like this? I don't think so. Neither did Mark Hamill too. But that’s by the by as he was getting paid handsomely to do what they want. Luke being the macguffin is IMO a great plot point, but the running and hiding and being a weird hermit is a tough one to accept. Theres nothing re-watchable in it.

Also you have to remember that the vast majority of people who see films and TV shows can't be bothered to read comics or books, they won’t seek that out or they're not even aware of them. So to just say fan expectation is at fault for this version of Luke not being popular in TLJ because of what they did in the EU is wide of the mark I think. Its just simply not very good because its so far removed from the Luke we know in the previous films.

 

It's not defending, it's accepting the rules that were baked into the saga. It's crap writing whose fault lies with Lucas. The funny thing is most parents have this same moment with their kids at some point. Do you think "a certain point of view" is the best answer when telling your kids the truth about Christmas? As a parent you bite the bullet and tell them you lied. For whatever reason Lucas didn't want Obi-Wan to do that.

He betrayed and murdered your father, not killed, murdered, that's a specific word to use when playing a game of semantics. Anakin murdered children, he murdered women. Vader did not murder Anakin.

When I watch Star Wars I don't expect any sincere apology. I didn't get it from the father figure who lied and had the perfect moment to confess, so why should anyone else be held to the standard that Lucas set? The most heartfelt & honest apology occurs in Skeleton Crew and it's given by children. It shouldn't have taken so long.

 

*Structurally* the difference is that Vader's origins (albeit significant) is not the emphasis of the OT story... that's the emphasis of the PT. So whilst Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" dialogue is a bit of a cop out, it's as a result of Vader becoming Luke's father 'after the fact' (i.e. retrospective plot filling), and isn't that significant to the specific story/structure of the film itself (ROTJ in this instance). Ben Solo's arc in the ST is much more circumscribe and the nature/consequence of his fall more pertinent to the immediate story (given we find out that he is Leia's and Han's son in TFA). That's why, structurally, the whole Ben and Luke dynamic doesn't work. It should be much more intrinsic to the plot/story, but it doesn't have the substance/development that it requires... and it certainly doesn't work, cinematically, just to be told that it does have significance.

 

It's a soft reboot, so they have to do everything again, and the result is Luke, Han and Leia look like idiots and worse. Don't tell Ben about Anakin, and let's do repeat the same mistakes of the old Jedi (thanks Obi Wan, Yoda and Anakin for not showing up to help Luke). The war is still going on because Mon Mothma and the rest miffed it after ROTJ. Palps isn't dead because they couldn't come up with a new villain - well, they did and then didn't. And on and on.

 

Bad apologies is a rule now?

Not quite.

And if you want to call poor apologies in the OT crap writing, than call it crap writing here too. Don't just hand-wave it away by saying this is just a rule of the saga. Once again, in order to defend the ST, ST Fans have to criticize the OT. Amazing.

Let's get into it: Obi-wan's POV explanation about his history with Vader, and skipping over the bad part where Anakin became Vader, isn't exactly the same thing as Luke not telling Ben about Vader. It seems similar on the surface but it's not.

Why? Because Obi-wan's omition of this to Luke is done for Luke's benefit. It's also because Obi-wan feels it was his failure. He's not responsible for Anakin's choices, Anakin is, but he feels as though he failed his student for not preparing him to resist that seduction. And so he takes the blame for failing him. He's also protecting Luke from becoming angry and hateful at his father for what he did. He wants Luke to know that Anakin WAS a good person. Obi-wan chooses to see them as two different people. To him, Anakin really died. He doesn't just want to fill his head with ... well, the hard truth. He wants Luke to come to the realization on his own. And ... I'm betting that neither Yoda or Obi-wan thought that Vader would be the one to tell Luke, which we see in the OT. I'm betting that Obi-wan probably assumed that someday, he'd explain the whole thing. Once Luke was more mature. And not a dark side risk.

But this is all very different than what's happening with ST Luke.

Luke isn't omitting a failure to Ben. He's omitting his own success. TLJ wants us to believe that Luke thinks the galaxy has rose-colored glasses on about the Jedi, its history, and doesn't admit or know about how much they failed as well. That they only see the good stuff. They romanticize them. But Luke is also speaking about himself. He believes that he messed up because he couldn't live up to his legend. He couldn't accept being imperfect. He couldn't accept his own mistakes. He lived a romanticized view of himself and his purpose. He grew arrogant and made mistakes and those mistakes made him go into exile. Because...he couldn't accept the non-rose colored glasses truth.

But saving his father, from evil, wasn't a failure. So why did Luke cover that up, if he was only hiding the bad stuff from Ben. There's nothing bad about saving Anakin. Unless of course, Luke views it as potentially shameful. That they didn't want to be associated with Vader. So they lied about it. They covered it up and didn't tell young Ben. Not because it would hurt Ben, but because it would hurt Luke and Leia's standing in the galaxy among people who only see the good in Jedi. To a fault.

Back to TLJ: You say Obi-wan gave a poor apology. Maybe he did. Luke didn't seem to like being lied to, even if it was to protect him. I would bet that this kind of character would grow to become someone who didn't lie to his students. But I guess Luke does.

So how does Luke fix this once Yoda spells it all out and bonks him on the head. Yoda tells him that our failures are our greatest teacher. Which again, isn't true. Because Luke's greatest failing taught him the wrong lesson. It taught him shame. It taught him to run away and hide. It taught him to give up because he couldn't live up to the romanticized view that people had of the Jedi. So now that Luke knows that passing on our failures is the answer ... what does Luke actually do with that information?

Oh right. He projects the legendary Luke all over again. After realizing that the galaxy, or Ben, his student, doesn't need this in order to learn. That the galaxy doesn't need to be ignorant about the bad stuff and could be inspired by the mistakes too. (And let's be honest, the saga shows us that the galaxy viewed the Jedi as having mistakes, so they didn't have some romanticized view of them in reality.) He projects romanticized view of himself. He once again masks the reality to shield Ben from realizing just how fallen Luke has come. He acts cold, and arrogant again, telling Ben 'every word you just said is wrong' and 'see ya around kid". That's not honest stuff there. The real Luke is old and gray, and weaker, and living on Ahch-to. He looks nothing like this proud Jedi Knight standing on Crait. Who by the way, is inspiring the Resistance back at the base. The legend is back. His message is spreading all over the galaxy and kids are playing with his toys. They're falling for only the good stuff. Living in ignorance about what's really going on. Living a false view that Luke criticizes in the beginning of the movie.

And if Luke really did learn his lesson ... then the apology should have been much more heartfelt and honest. Because that's the story that TLJ is TRYING desperately to tell us. But it can't. Because the movie is inherently inconsistent with itself, and the rest of the saga.

It's not that bad apologies are a rule. It's that by this time, 4 episodes after Obi-wan's lie, and 30 years later, someone should be learning the right lessons so that the past doesn't happen ... again. Because this is one big story. And since we have one more episode to go...this is the time when lessons should be learned. Not fake ones by Yoda. Real ones. So that they can go fix them for the final ending.